KR not starting since new head fitted

[aide 0]

this is a real mystery for sure :scratch: let us know how you get on

[Yash 0]

Had the engine pressure tested earlier and the gauge did not move at all, nothing on all cylinders.

 

Mechanic recommended that I take the head off and check that there are no leaks from the valves. What a mission......... :(

[Toad 0]

I've had an issue with my KR before, the oil pump was knackered and the pressure was too high, jacking all the tappets open and leaving no compression. Check the oil pressure before taking the head off.

[Supercharged 2]

I've had an issue with my KR before, the oil pump was knackered and the pressure was too high, jacking all the tappets open and leaving no compression. Check the oil pressure before taking the head off.

 

Good call Toadie - I'd have never thought of that!

 

Makes sense though and would effect all cylinders

[Yash 0]

I like the sound of this but how do I go about checking oil pressure? Will there be any pressure when the engine isn't running?

[Yash 0]

DSC00322.JPG[/attachment:1pkechty]

 

Not a great pic but this is a pic of the head before it was fitted. Valves look ok, dont they?

[davidwort 0]

so, just to confirm agin,

do you feel compression in each of the cylinders if you wind it over by hand by the crank pulley bolt?

does it spin too fast on the starter like there's little compression resistance?

[Yash 0]

I can hear air movement but am unsure if it is compression or just the piston moving. The gauge on the compression tester did not move at all when we were turning the engine over.

 

Too me it doesnt sound like it turning too fast on the starter, if anything it sounds like its turning a bit slowly but then I cant really remeber what it sounded like before as it was so long ago.....

[Wullie 1]

As the head is off by the looks of things (or is that an old picture pour some paraffin into the ports on a cylinder where the valves are supposed to be closed. If the valves are not seating properly the paraffin will leak past the valve seats. I had a problem once when I had the head stripped for a while the hydraulic tappets seemed to freeze and held the valves open slightly all the time. My solution at the time was to fit new ones. If the head is on the car I suppose you could do something similar with the plugs out to see if anything leaks into the cylinders. Don't put the plugs back in until you've spun the engine to blow out the bores if anything has leaked by.

[davidwort 0]

I can hear air movement but am unsure if it is compression or just the piston moving. The gauge on the compression tester did not move at all when we were turning the engine over.

 

Too me it doesnt sound like it turning too fast on the starter, if anything it sounds like its turning a bit slowly but then I cant really remeber what it sounded like before as it was so long ago.....

 

my valver (fairly new engine) is a pig to turn over by hand, you really have to swing on the crank pulley bolt and you can feel and hear each cylinder compressing and releasing through the exhaust valves, after one cylinder releases it's easy to turn for 1/4 of a turn until the next cylinder compresses.

If you had no compression on all cylinders the starter would spin the engine like a fast spin on a washing machine - no resistance.

[Yash 0]

I can hear air movement but am unsure if it is compression or just the piston moving. The gauge on the compression tester did not move at all when we were turning the engine over.

 

Too me it doesnt sound like it turning too fast on the starter, if anything it sounds like its turning a bit slowly but then I cant really remeber what it sounded like before as it was so long ago.....

 

my valver (fairly new engine) is a pig to turn over by hand, you really have to swing on the crank pulley bolt and you can feel and hear each cylinder compressing and releasing through the exhaust valves, after one cylinder releases it's easy to turn for 1/4 of a turn until the next cylinder compresses.

If you had no compression on all cylinders the starter would spin the engine like a fast spin on a washing machine - no resistance.

 

 

To turn the engine over by hand i am using a pole on the handle of the ratchet to get a bit more leverage. Its spins exactly how you describe, its hard then its easy, its hard then easy. Maybe the compression tester is dodgy. Toad said it could be oil pressure holding the tappets open, but when the car is being spun on the starter I thought there wouldn't be any oil pressure?

 

 

As the head is off by the looks of things (or is that an old picture pour some paraffin into the ports on a cylinder where the valves are supposed to be closed. If the valves are not seating properly the paraffin will leak past the valve seats. I had a problem once when I had the head stripped for a while the hydraulic tappets seemed to freeze and held the valves open slightly all the time. My solution at the time was to fit new ones. If the head is on the car I suppose you could do something similar with the plugs out to see if anything leaks into the cylinders. Don't put the plugs back in until you've spun the engine to blow out the bores if anything has leaked by.

 

 

The head isn't off at the moment. The pic was taken before i fitted the head.

 

I am planning on taking the head off tomorrow. I just hope when I do take it off that none of the valves are bent. I find it strange that I dont get any compression on all cylinders. I guess that means I have either bent all the intake valves or there is another problem.

 

The guy i bought the head off had done about 2000 miles since it was rebuilt, so I dont think there is a problem with the valve seats. The head was rebuilt by the engine shop. I was told that the guides, seals, tappets were replaced and it was crack tested. He gave me the receipt so i guess I could call them and ask exactly what was done.

 

When I was spinning the engine on the starter with someone spraying easy start into the intake it occasionaly made a popping sound like it was about to fire. I also got someone to slowly turn the distributor housing while i was spinning it just incase the ignition timing was out.

[Toad 0]

I like the sound of this but how do I go about checking oil pressure? Will there be any pressure when the engine isn't running?

 

Yeah, as soon as it starts to crank it develops pressure.

[Yash 0]

I took the inlet manifold off and had a look at the valves. none of them looked bent. then i realised the valves that I expected to be open weren't. I turned the engine over by hand and none of the valves were moving. So i took the cam cover off to see if the cam chain had snapped but that was fine.

 

Cams are turning but the valves arent moving. I took a couple of pics but they didnt come out very well. Its as if the valves are stuck. Is this something to do with the tappets? The only valves that were open were the valves for cylinder 3, the same valves that were open when i originally fitted the head (see pic above).

 

Any ideas on what I can do to free up the valves, I don't really want to take the cams out as from reading posts on here it sounds like a bit of a mission to put them back in exactly right.

 

Cylider one

 

passat climatronic wiring diags.pdfDSC00471.JPG[/attachment:36du1a2h]

 

Cylinder two

 

climatronic wiring-Golf from May 01.pdfDSC00472.JPG[/attachment:36du1a2h]

 

Cylinder three

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfDSC00473.JPG[/attachment:36du1a2h]

 

Cylinder four

 

DSC00474.JPG[/attachment:36du1a2h]

[Supercharged 2]

Hmmm - at least your getting somewhere, where did the recon head come from??

[Toad 0]

What tappets are fitted?

[Yash 0]

bought the head on ebay from some guy that had it reconditioned by http://www.theengineshop.info/index.html. He sent me the receipt so I assume it is genuine.

 

I have no idea what tappets are inside the head, the guy had done around 2000 miles on it since it was reconditioned so the tappets should be fine. Do you think that because it was off the head for so long that they have somehow seized? Will try calling the engine shop tomorrow.

[Supercharged 2]

Hmmm... it's TES that supply AMD/BBT and they don't have the best reputation I'm afraid...

 

Although it sounds like it did work for a bit on the other guys car so maybe just something got unseated or seized as you say...

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

its very unlikely all the hydraulics are not working,most of the time when building a new motor with fresh or drained hydraulics they do not fully lift until oil pressure is archived,have you got oil pressure? are the plugs wet or dry after cranking? Does the engine "cough" at all when turning it over?

 

Is the engine timed up correctly?

[Yash 0]

Engine is timed up correctly. Does not cough at all.

 

Am unsure if I have got oil pressure. How do you test for oil pressure? Spark plugs are wet and smell of fuel, so they are definately getting fuell

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Engine is timed up correctly. Does not cough at all.

 

Am unsure if I have got oil pressure. How do you test for oil pressure? Spark plugs are wet and smell of fuel, so they are definately getting fuell

 

is the top end full of oil? crank it over with the rocker cover off and see if oil is running past the cam caps,spark plugs wet,do you have spark? does the engine sound like it has compression? im just going to roll off question after question mate so i can figure it out if thats ok with you?

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

just reading your posts again,you say it cranks over with no resistance? but the valves dont move?

 

So you have no compression,i would pull the belt off and then pull out the cams,pain i know but then crank it over,it should sound like normal as the cylinders are sealed.

 

Also the hydrolics sound like they are full of oil and wont compress hence your valves slightly open and you have no compression....drain all the hydraulics off by putting them in the vise,pushing the centre of the underside of the hydraulic nice and slowly,use a cloth not to damage the hydraulics...then reassemble.

 

 

Try that mate.

[Yash 0]

it isnt easy to turn the engine over, but it doesnt fell any harder or easier then before i removed the head. yes there is spark and fuel. The issue is def with the valves/tappets/oil.

 

If i want to remove the tappets do i just take the cams out and lift out the tappets or is it more complicated. I really didnt want to remove the cams. is it not possible to try and free up the valves by moving them up and down with long nosed pliers or something similar.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

it isnt easy to turn the engine over, but it doesnt fell any harder or easier then before i removed the head. yes there is spark and fuel. The issue is def with the valves/tappets/oil.

 

If i want to remove the tappets do i just take the cams out and lift out the tappets or is it more complicated. I really didnt want to remove the cams. is it not possible to try and free up the valves by moving them up and down with long nosed pliers or something similar.

 

 

no you will need to pull the cams out to remove the hydraulics which just lift out with a magnetic pen,only other option is to tow start it this has worked many times for me,but make sure its 100% timed up correctly.

[Yash 0]

i have got a rs bumper on the front. the mesh covers the toe hook so i cant toe start it unless i attach the toe line to the subframe..........

 

its def timed up correctly, I have checked it so many times. can't believe the hydraulics are being such a pain, oh well i guess the positive spin is that the valves appear ok.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

whip the bumper off mate,it will be quicker than pulling the engine to bits!