Stealth Racing VR6 Turbo Kit discussion

[mic_VR 3]

Wow, those plots are a lot closer than I thought they would be. Very impressed at how smooth the torque curve is on your VRT vince, do you think that's down to the use of the standard manifold?

[Vince@Stealth 0]

OK this one is our Corrado Turbo 9psi vs Golf MK2 VR6 Turbo OBD1 (Hot Film MAF), 15Psi Boost, Short Runner Intake.

The MK2 has the pretty much the same turbo as ours except a 0.82 Exhaust Housing....(ours is 0.68 Hot)

I only Tuned this car for the owner as fitted all the turbo kit himself .

 

Funnily enough we are fitting a turbo kit this week in a MK3 VR6 OBD2 with the same Turbo that is in that MK2.

I'll Let you know how it turns out.

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfStealth vs 0.82 Hot - Power.jpeg[/attachment:17pf0u0d]

 

Stealth vs 0.82 Hot - Torque.jpeg[/attachment:17pf0u0d]

[junkie 0]

Nice and nice.

 

KeV performance for a fraction of the cost. Sorry kev.

[Vince@Stealth 0]

Is there any chance of seeing it up against a similar rotrexed VR? This was going to be the route I was going for. Now after seeing this it may of changed my mind towards going turbo!

 

 

Stealth Turbo 9psi Blue

Rotrex 18psi Green

 

Corrado with Rotrex has SP263 Cams and Short Runner......We fiited all this for our customer then remapped it.

 

 

Worth mentioning here that the Rev limiter on our Corrado is stock, ie not upped

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfStealth vs Rotrex Power.jpg[/attachment:3ejbyach]

 

Stealth vs Rotrex Torque.jpg[/attachment:3ejbyach]

[Vince@Stealth 0]

Stealth Corrado Turbo (Blue)

vs

Jons Corrrado Turbo (Purple).... This car is OBD2, short runner, customers own DIY Install and Stealth Remap.

In my opinion this turbo is slightly too small just about peaks at 15psi but can't sustain it.

Spools very fast and possibly into gearbox breaking territory??

I had some fun with a camcorder while remapping this one

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfStealth vs Jon S Power.jpg[/attachment:3uw3bv1i]

 

Stealth vs Jon S Torque.jpg[/attachment:3uw3bv1i]

[Vince@Stealth 0]

OK Last set of power Dyno Plots

 

This is how NOT to turbo a VR6, the turbo is so small that it almost becomes a restriction in the exhaust system once the rpm's start to climb

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfHow not to turbo a VR6 power.jpg[/attachment:oogpg9e1]

 

How not to turbo a VR6 Torque.jpg[/attachment:oogpg9e1]

[Vince@Stealth 0]

I hope this gives you all a little bit of insight into why we followed the route that we did?

 

Any questions or Comments please fire away?

[Vince@Stealth 0]

Wow, those plots are a lot closer than I thought they would be. Very impressed at how smooth the torque curve is on your VRT vince, do you think that's down to the use of the standard manifold?

 

Thank You for your positive comment.

 

There are possibly many factors here and yes the stock manifold could be one of them.

 

Vince

[Greg Kirby 0]

Oh Vince, what have you gone and done?

I believe you'll be hearing from me soon. You remember the VF charger you've spent so long fine tuning for me, did you save the box, I'll need it when I sell it to help pay for a turbo! :D

[Vince@Stealth 0]

Oh Vince, what have you gone and done?

I believe you'll be hearing from me soon. You remember the VF charger you've spent so long fine tuning for me, did you save the box, I'll need it when I sell it to help pay for a turbo! :D

 

Hiya Greg

 

Did I save the your SC box? No sorry mate I didn't :(

 

But you can keep the box that the Turbo comes out of :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nice and nice.

 

KeV performance for a fraction of the cost. Sorry kev.

 

And your point is? :shrug:

[junkie 0]

Nice and nice.

 

KeV performance for a fraction of the cost. Sorry kev.

 

And your point is? :shrug:

 

You have spent a frigging fortune on yours mate which is fine by the way, it does exactly what you want it to do with added benefits that the stealth kit won't do but people can get alot of performance for the money they are asking. So that's my point really it's a bloody good kit.

 

I was saying sorry kev incase you took offense as it was light hearted.

 

Like I said nice graph, so out of curiosity anyway what do you think yours is doing now as you have changed alot in the last 18 months since that run was done and any ideas when you will be rolling it again, never see too many updates from ya nowadays.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nice and nice.

 

KeV performance for a fraction of the cost. Sorry kev.

 

And your point is? :shrug:

 

You have spent a frigging fortune on yours mate which is fine by the way, it does exactly what you want it to do with added benefits that the stealth kit won't do but people can get alot of performance for the money they are asking. So that's my point really it's a bloody good kit.

 

I was saying sorry kev incase you took offense as it was light hearted.

 

Like I said nice graph, so out of curiosity anyway what do you think yours is doing now as you have changed alot in the last 18 months since that run was done and any ideas when you will be rolling it again, never see too many updates from ya nowadays.

 

Thanks for elaborating! I wasn't sure what you meant by the Sorry bit, LOL! It almost came across as if I'd wasted my time and money! Sorry for the misunderstanding!

 

Vince's kit is very well developed and had he done it 3 years ago, I definitely would have gone with it myself!! But at that time VRTs were thin on the ground and Vince was still working on the S/C VR6 problems and perfecting the mapping, so he wasn't getting involved with many VRTs. So I had to go overseas for the parts and expertise - namely Mr Schimmel. He has his pros and cons like many other tuners but he got me started and the dollar was 2 to 1 back then :D

 

The main reason I've spent so much is due to bad luck more than anything. If you remember, I lost a 'built' engine almost immediately after it was started due to bore scratching and then not long after that was sorted, I lost a turbo from something getting sucked through the filter (which is why I no longer use cotton gauze filters!!)

 

The replacement turbo for that also died!! But that was ATP's fault for not assembling it correctly. They'd used the wrong flange seal on the turbine housing causing the blades to rub on it under thrust.

 

The 3rd and final turbo, the 35R has been a tank. The Wossner block Vince built for me and Schimmel's BVH have also been tanks. They've all covered 45K miles over 3 year's daily use. Oh and the gearbox rebuild + Quaife Vince did for me 4 or 5 years ago has also been absolutely perfect and still holding together :D

 

I can't thank the man enough, he's kept me sane over the last 10 years or so!

 

Oh and of course there was the turbo manifold cracking saga due to crap fakes, it went on and on mate and cost me more and more money each time!

 

I'm also a fussy bastard and tend to buy the brand names too :D

 

What I finally ended up with though is a Stage 3 spec capable of 600hp after decent mapping and an O2m gearbox. And as you know yourself, a high power Corrado turbo that's RELIABLE isn't cheap or easy to achieve!

 

Anyway, I've rambled on enough in Vince's thread now, but nothing new on mine really. I've just been focussing on making it reliable over the past couple of years but it desperately needs a Vince special map! I've got it reasonably close with DIY tweaking but it really needs some proper dyno attention in the part throttle areas.

 

At some point i'm hoping to get Vince's help with the O2M conversion and then I can start pushing the GT35R into and beyond 20psi, where it's happiest :D

[junkie 0]

No worries I know I'm crap at posting most of the time.

 

Good ramble and yea I know only too well getting a reliable turbo corrado is like haha. Nothing wrong with brand names infact quite the opposite. Looking forward to the new tweaks.

 

It's all yours vince sorry for spamming the thread a little.

 

Oh and kev I thought it was the marlboro that were keeping you sane.

[Vince@Stealth 0]

[quote

 

The main reason I've spent so much is due to bad luck more than anything. If you remember, I lost a 'built' engine almost immediately after it was started due to bore scratching and then not long after that was sorted, I lost a turbo from something getting sucked through the filter (which is why I no longer use cotton gauze filters!!)

 

I'm also a fussy bastard and tend to buy the brand names too :D

 

 

For someone who has had so much bad luck I never seen anyone as determined and focused to carry on and get his car just right.

Hats off to ya Kev :clap:

 

The install Kev has done on his car is superb, so good infact that a lot of professional companies out there including ourselves would be proud to put our/their name to it. Good Job Kev!

 

As for being a fussy bastard, yeah I will go along with that but why not, the passion between men and motors will never die.

That's why we are all here isn't it??

[Yandards 0]

Now an 02M box modification to fit a Corrado is very interesting.

[Supercharged 2]

Now an 02M box modification to fit a Corrado is very interesting.

 

I'm running 02M on the TDI remember!

 

Dutch dubs came up with a conversion mount a few years ago now, requires you to relocate the bracket on the subframe though -

 

http://www.dutchdub.com/Webnew/O2M/trans_mount_cup.jpg

 

Another interesting thing I found out today was MK5 Polo shifter boxes - they are similar to the MK4 Golf ones except they fit a MK2 / Corrado / Rallye without any grinding / modification to the tunnel / floor!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Oh and kev I thought it was the marlboro that were keeping you sane.

 

LOL, yeah I practically chain smoke the things when I'm at Stealth and empty their coffee machine too :lol: It's a good day out which I enjoy though. Stock up with fags and redbull and then head up the A14, which is dullest road on the planet, but always a lot more interesting on the way back! :D

 

For someone who has had so much bad luck I never seen anyone as determined and focused to carry on and get his car just right.

Hats off to ya Kev :clap:

 

The install Kev has done on his car is superb, so good infact that a lot of professional companies out there including ourselves would be proud to put our/their name to it. Good Job Kev!

 

Thanks a lot Vince, really appreciate that! :D

 

Before people start to reach for the bucket from our mutual appreciation, I've always believed in supporting companies that give good service and Stealth are no exception! 8)

 

Vince put in a lot of personal hours into my project and has always been at the end of an email or the telephone. I know over time it's natural to build up a good relationship with a garage but Vince has always gone the extra mile and always exceeds expectations and is as keen as the customer is to get the desired results, even if it means staying late and missing out on his Call of Duty session!

 

Hats off to YOU Vince :notworthy:

[Walesy 0]

:fondle:

[Jim 1]

Awwwwww... you guys!! ;)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Now an 02M box modification to fit a Corrado is very interesting.

 

I'm running 02M on the TDI remember!

 

Dutch dubs came up with a conversion mount a few years ago now, requires you to relocate the bracket on the subframe though -

 

http://www.dutchdub.com/Webnew/O2M/trans_mount_cup.jpg

 

Another interesting thing I found out today was MK5 Polo shifter boxes - they are similar to the MK4 Golf ones except they fit a MK2 / Corrado / Rallye without any grinding / modification to the tunnel / floor!

 

Good info!

 

You're running a 4 cylinder O2M though (MUCH more common than the 6 cyl ones) and the original installer welded on the OE MK4 shoulder mount to the inner wing. I'd like to do that myself as it seems the neat and logical way to do it. I've also seen someone weld on a dogbone mount to his VR6 subframe.

 

I don't really like the idea of moving the orginal gearbox mount over and I'm not that keen on the dutchdub bracket either. I think if you're going to the trouble of removing the engine and you've got to weld anyway, why not just weld on the shoulder mount? As that method was done on yours some time ago and you've not suffered with premature diff bearing wear, I assume the drivetrain angle is correct when putting the MK4 mountings onto the Corrado?

 

The O2M can be quite complicated on the VR6 platform.

 

Only the US got a 6 cylinder FWD 02M in the Jetta and Golf 'GTI' V6. The EOS is, AFAIK, the only FWD V6 in the UK and that got an O2Q gearbox, which looks to be a variant of the FWD O2M.

 

You can of course use an R32 or 4 motion gearbox by removing and plating over the transfer box and fitting another nearside drive flange.

 

Two snags though. The final drives are too short and if you use the R32 one, there's no speedo drive for the original clocks.

 

Although VW never brought a FWD 6 cyl 02M to the UK, you can actually buy the 6 cyl FWD bellhousing!! It's around £300. I don't know if you can fit this casing to a 4 cyl O2M gearbox though, Vince will know.

You can of course strip the 4WD 02M and rehouse it within the FWD casing though.

 

If you pick up a 4WD O2M for around £250 and recase it, it's still a lot cheaper than a 6 speed gearset for the O2A and probably just as strong.

 

I definitely think it's the way to go. Tonnes of spares available for O2Ms aswell as so many cars got them. If you break any bits for a Gemini, Eurospec or SQS gearset, spares can be tricky to get hold of.

 

So all that's left to figure out is what to do about the later gearboxes with no speedo drive and the final drive ratios. I'm thinking diesel FD for the latter and for the former, some kind of custom hall sensor job using the bolt heads of the CV joints, which is fine for standalones, but the factory clocks are expecting a specific amount of pulses per rev and that could take some figuring out :scratch:

 

Geniuses, please step forward!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Awwwwww... you guys!! ;)

 

LOL at you and Walesy!

 

There's quite a few 'unvoiced' folk who feel the same way :wink:

 

A lot of Stealth's custom is by word of mouth and reputation, but there's no harm in a bit of 'bigging up' now and then :D

 

We ended up buying 50 sets of cams from Schimmel after showing him some love, so I think Stealth deserve the same :clap:

[Yandards 0]

It's going to have to be an OEM fitment for me, that Dutch dubs link looks more pikey than proper.

 

As for the gearspeed issue.

 

I can tell you the speedo drive runs at a standard ratio for all Corrado boxes at 0.591 (13:22) I can also tell you that the MFA/clocks have a speedo drive ratio figure of 3800 (whatever that means). The speedo cable drive signal comes from the fuesbox internal connections after arriving at plug G1 pin 11 and then comes out to the dash clock loom on pin 27. This signal talks directly to the MFA controller with output to the speedometer.

[VR6Joni 0]

 

So all that's left to figure out is what to do about the later gearboxes with no speedo drive and the final drive ratios. I'm thinking diesel FD for the latter and for the former, some kind of custom hall sensor job using the bolt heads of the CV joints, which is fine for standalones, but the factory clocks are expecting a specific amount of pulses per rev and that could take some figuring out :scratch:

 

Geniuses, please step forward!

 

Tap into the ABS sensor signal, if you know the gearbox pulses per wheel rev and the ABS sensor ring pulses per wheel rev it should be simple as long as they factor into a whole number. If anyone knows this info and wants a relevant circuit diagram, just ask.

 

PS. Probs should move this to another thread!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Tap into the ABS sensor signal, if you know the gearbox pulses per wheel rev and the ABS sensor ring pulses per wheel rev it should be simple as long as they factor into a whole number. If anyone knows this info and wants a relevant circuit diagram, just ask.

 

PS. Probs should move this to another thread!

 

Thanks for your input Joni!

 

Funnily enough that's exactly what Allan at DTA said aswell :D The only issue with the ABS signal is it's VR one. Is the gearbox sender a hall signal?

I've seen a few VR -> Hall conditioner circuits on the web (originally conceived for traction control circuits utilising the factory ABS sensors), but speaking to someone in the standalone world, there are concerns about their low speed resolution. It would be great to get this problem ticked off the list though! :D

 

Yeah leave the thread to me. I will split it out later and create a 'discussion thread'.