Drifting rear end

[Critical_Mass 10]

Hi guys/gals,

 

Need some advice.

 

Was driving home earlier today and i got to a road that had those speed reducing chicanes on it. When i went through it i was carrying enough speed that when i turned right quickly to get through the chicane, the rear end felt like it either drifted or rolled too much. It felt almost as if either the rear passenger shock was soggy and not taking the weight of the car or the rear was allowed to slide.

 

When i got to a straight clear bit of road i weaved the car left and right and turning left it feels fine, but turning right the passenger rear side again feels like i described above. I took a look at the rear shocker, which is a year old KW V1, and i cant see any signs of leaking or knackered springs - all looks ok.

 

Now could this be the rear axle bushes, even if its just affecting one side of the axle? For a while now when coming to a gentle stop using the brakes, at first it only happened when my speed dropped to 5-10 mph. I would get a loud high pitched clunk from the rear (confirmed by someone standing outside the car while i drive back and forth to get it to clunk), but now it does it more regularly when gently braking but the speed is higher then 5-10mph. I was told by my mechanic that it sounds like the rear axle moving in relation to the car when braking.

 

Could these be linked to eachother?

 

Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

Cheers

 

EDIT - just taken car for a quick drive and i think its same on the drivers side as it is on the passenger.

[aide 0]

i'd presume your bushes are tired yeh, i understand the rear axle is designed to passively 'steer', or flex sideways with the back end

 

i got crashiness on mine before i started the rebuild, found my bushes were hanging together.

[Critical_Mass 10]

i'd presume your bushes are tired yeh, i understand the rear axle is designed to passively 'steer', or flex sideways with the back end

 

i got crashiness on mine before i started the rebuild, found my bushes were hanging together.

 

Yeah i've always thought it was designed to move a little. But not as much as it feels it is, it sometimes feels like the back end is going to go. :?

[WigsVR6 0]

Wish I had more technical expertease to help you out with your problem. I just look at the more simple solutions first. How are your rear tyres? I know it dosn't answer the noise issue coming from the rear of your car but it might be something as simple as that. :shrug: I've just bought two new tyres for the rear of my C and I must admit that I feel more confident taking corners with a little more speed. I always felt that the rear of the car wanted to step put on me and I'm not an agressive driver by nature. In fact one time it did step out out on me and I ended up drifting side ways on a round a bout lightly damaging the front of my car. That was in wet weather though and I wasn't going that fast!

 

Cheers Alan

[Critical_Mass 10]

Cheers for the reply Alan.

 

However the rear tyres are pratically new toyo tr-1s which have covered no more then 2000 miles.

[WigsVR6 0]

Cheers Critical Mass they are exactly the same tyres I got put on the rear of my C last Friday only done 50 miles in them but first impressions are good

[Critical_Mass 10]

Cheers Critical Mass they are exactly the same tyres I got put on the rear of my C last Friday only done 50 miles in them but first impressions are good

 

Yeah i had a set on the front and i really liked them, though the wear rate was higher then i had hoped. Though they were on the driven wheels to be fair and i do like to put my foot down from time to time :D They should last longer on the rear.

[colinstubbs 0]

Critical_Mass if your rear axle bushes are as fooked as mine were put your handbrake on and then see if you can rock the rear wheels.

 

Mine moved and the axle pivot rattled like hell inside the screw bushes! Nick @ Youngs Garage said they were the worst he'd ever seen!!! Oops!

 

This was years ago when I'd only had my C a short while!!

[Critical_Mass 10]

Critical_Mass if your rear axle bushes are as fooked as mine were put your handbrake on and then see if you can rock the rear wheels.

 

Mine moved and the axle pivot rattled like hell inside the screw bushes! Nick @ Youngs Garage said they were the worst he'd ever seen!!! Oops!

 

This was years ago when I'd only had my C a short while!!

 

Cheers Colin, i'll give it a go. When you say rock the rear wheels should i just push each wheel whilst car is sat on the ground and see if it moves?

[Jim Bowen 1]

this was a video i shot when i noticed mine had gone

 

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g306/ ... V01312.flv

 

i was on other side of car shaking it side to side.

 

when i took the axle off the bushes were in pieces and most of the bush just fell out :!

[Critical_Mass 10]

Cheers mate. I'll give the car a shake tomorrow when i have the day off. :D

[StuartFZR400 0]

Presumably you replaced the top mounts at the same time as those new shocks? Worthwhile checking they were correctly nipped up.

Also, this been happening over the last couple months? Maybe the big 8mm tread on those T1R's? Unlikely, but possible if you're running different tyres on the front; I can't tell how much movement you're getting.

But most of all, yeh as you guess, bushes seem most likely. They were last done when? Never? Good luck !!

[Critical_Mass 10]

Presumably you replaced the top mounts at the same time as those new shocks? Worthwhile checking they were correctly nipped up.

Also, this been happening over the last couple months? Maybe the big 8mm tread on those T1R's? Unlikely, but possible if you're running different tyres on the front; I can't tell how much movement you're getting.

But most of all, yeh as you guess, bushes seem most likely. They were last done when? Never? Good luck !!

 

I'll check the nuts on the mounts are tight, but im pretty confident they'll be fine. There's no other knocking or anything.

 

Yeah just noticed it in the last month.. well not before i got the tyres fitted. Can the large amount of tread on the tyres give this feeling?

 

I'll give them rocking test a go today. How many hours would it take a competent garage to remove the axle change bushes and replace? also how much are new OEM bushes?

 

Cheers Stuart!

[aide 0]

New OEM bushes are £36 quid each, not a small job, I'd say a day for a competent garage, took me a lot longer on my drive!

[StuartFZR400 0]

^ theres your adviec on time; I've heard its a big job.

 

As for the feel of new tyres; I can't really say, as I've not fully appreciated what you're saying. But I do doubt it as an idea, it was really idea number 3 in order. As a comparison, I had well worn rears (say 2mm left) and the back didn't just feel like its moving, it made big steps out a couple times. I swapped all 4 tyres to brand new Rainsports and it omitted the stepping out problem by a mile, but it did feel like marbles in the twisties for about 2k miles on all four corners - being the Corrado it just felt like the whole thing was loose, but balanced; thereon, with less tread, it felt mega stable and planted.

[Jim 2]

New OEM bushes are £36 quid each, not a small job, I'd say a day for a competent garage, took me a lot longer on my drive!

 

A day?! I think Stealth can get them swapped in a couple of hours and sure many other VW specialists could do it in similar time :) So not a totally horrendous / expensive job to do.

[aide 0]

/\ yep agree if it all goes well, there's pitfalls tho, here's some i found when doing mine;

 

- siezed/ rounded off brake line nuts to the brake regulator, new line and nuts required

- brake regulator bolts siezed as frequently are, mounting bracket had to be removed and regulator bolts grinded off, you can't slip the bush bolt out of mounting bracket without removing the regulator

- again undoing flexi beam brake hose connectors bent the fixed brake line along the trailing arms, new line and nuts required

- abs sensor was welded into the stub axle, so calipers, discs, backing plate and bearings off to address that.

- the bearings are difficult to get back into the housing too.

 

maybe a day is a wee bit too long, good car in good condition, yep maybe quicker

[WigsVR6 0]

I had my rear axle bushes replaced last year £33.61 each. The labour came to £180 @ 4 1/2 hours plus £37 VAT. Not a bad price considering how bad a job it is.This work was carried out by a WV specailist.

 

HTH Alan

[Jim 2]

/\ yep agree if it all goes well, there's pitfalls tho, here's some i found when doing mine;

 

- siezed/ rounded off brake line nuts to the brake regulator, new line and nuts required

- brake regulator bolts siezed as frequently are, mounting bracket had to be removed and regulator bolts grinded off, you can't slip the bush bolt out of mounting bracket without removing the regulator

- again undoing flexi beam brake hose connectors bent the fixed brake line along the trailing arms, new line and nuts required

- abs sensor was welded into the stub axle, so calipers, discs, backing plate and bearings off to address that.

- the bearings are difficult to get back into the housing too.

 

maybe a day is a wee bit too long, good car in good condition, yep maybe quicker

 

Yeah - fair points. On a lot of cars that whole area has never been touched since it left the factory, and withstood 15-20 years of weather and road conditions attacking it! If everything comes out ok then a few hours but I'd concede it's a lot more if all that lot give you grief.

[Critical_Mass 10]

Cheers guys, appreciate the comments. :D

 

The only issue i can see there being is the brake compensator as mentioned as everything else has been off the car at some point.

 

Saying that... i gave the car a rock today and it didnt feel nor look like anything was wrong, certainly not like in the vid posted previous. :scratch:

 

Sorry Stuart i think i misunderstood what you meant regarding the tyre tread. When i first got the tyres fitted (fronts were new at the same time but a cheaper brand), the car felt like it was on ice. I was gripping the steering wheel really hard :lol: It felt like the car was going sideways round the bends and even though its settled down alot more now, since the tyres have bedded in. It could be that the rears are taking that little bit longer to bed in, though that was over a month ago.. :?

[WigsVR6 0]

When I had mine done the mechanic couldn't remove the bolts from the break compensator. On my advice I told him to burn the bracket then weld it up again after the job had been completed.

[aide 0]

On a lot of cars that whole area has never been touched since it left the factory, and withstood 15-20 years of weather and road conditions attacking it!

 

yeh that'd be mine! sure it was cheap so knew i'd get that type of hassle :D

 

When I had mine done the mechanic couldn't remove the bolts from the break compensator. On my advice I told him to burn the bracket then weld it up again after the job had been completed.

 

yep seems a lot of ones get it, bimetallic corrossion i think, i coated my new one in a lot of grease when rebuilding.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Interestingly, after reading this I gave my rear end a good shaking last night as it's also felt loose and sloppy on the road :lol:

 

There was schitt loads of movement, but it was just loose wheel bearings thankfully. Tightened them up and it's now driving the best it has in months. Funny how you always over look the simple things and fear the worst!!

[StuartFZR400 0]

Sorry Stuart i think i misunderstood what you meant regarding the tyre tread. When i first got the tyres fitted (fronts were new at the same time but a cheaper brand), the car felt like it was on ice. I was gripping the steering wheel really hard :lol: It felt like the car was going sideways round the bends and even though its settled down alot more now, since the tyres have bedded in. It could be that the rears are taking that little bit longer to bed in, though that was over a month ago.. :?

 

Ok, I'll remove foot out of my mouth, lol. First things first you need to check those bushes, they are public enemy number 1. But I do mean check only. If they need doing, they they need doing - simple (give it a shake). New bushes and you still feel a bit wobbly, its my experience that odd tyres really hinder - when I had the back end stepping out, I had Dunlop 9000's on the rear and something better on the front. When I went to x4 rainsports, it felt better like I said (although slightly like marbles for the first 2000 miles, but thereon very planted/stable/onrails).

Oh, and talking of wobbly parts, seems Kev has a good idea too; basically looking for all bearing type of object that can wear after age... come on, the rado is getting on a bit now; some tlc required. I try to work in order of cheapest first though; or easiest to diagnose. The bushes, although not cheap, hopefully will be a detectable item, whereas the tyres are somewhat a mystery until you tried alternatives (costly). Good luck

:)

 

It reminds me of a time when i heard a knocking on the Golf. Jacked up the engine by an inch or two, close to the noise, and sure enough the engine mount spewed out brown muck (shagged); thankfully an easy job and not a knackered driveshaft or gearbox or something.

[Critical_Mass 10]

I gave the car a shake yesterday and there was movement but nothing like 3CMs rado in the video. Could they still be knackered. I'll check the wheel bearings too as they were replaced end of last year but i never checked them again after that.

 

Though... I could be chasing a red herring hear..