Lowered but ride too hard, options?

[Fanjita 1]

Hi all,

 

Been having a read through suspension threads but can't really see any that answer my question. Basically I love the height at which my car sits but hate the way it rides, its really hard suspension.

 

My arch liners are intact and it doesn't rub, I'm guessing I should be thinking about softer suspension and rolled arches here?

 

Is there any other alternative? What have you all used to achieve the same look as mine?

 

I believe the lowering is in the region of 50mm all around, here is a pic:

 

It's just so 'crashy' right now, a small drain or manhole cover and it lets out an almighty bang from time to time. Plus all the interior rattles that are intensified by the bumpy roads!

 

I have recently done all the important bushes bar the shock mounts but they seem ok, so it shouldn't be any of this.

 

All advice is welcome, cheers!

[dukest 0]

would help if we knew what supension it was on at the moment? and your wheels are 17s i guess but just checking they're not 18s as they look pretty big in the pictures!

 

there've been quite a few threads talking about how to deal with crashy/hard suspension recently too (eg. fla, herisites, with comments from kevhaywire etc), what did you think about the issues discussed in those?

[Fanjita 1]

Hi mate, I'm not sure what suspension I actually have, only that the previous owner mentioned them as 'Silversport' coilovers?

 

I actually haven't seen these threads you speak of, looks like I didnt do the right search, would you happen to have a link if you've seen them recently?

 

They are 17's yes

 

Cheers

[swiftkid 1]

Well just had a flick through your members thread and they look like hot-tuning coilovers at first glance with their blue collar/red spring colour scheme which are renowned for being very stiff but cheap and able to lower your car. Think they are about £150 off ebay and you pay for the quality really, my apologies if they are more expensive ones but it seems to me if you want a better ride quality either go back to either standard shocks and lowering springs, uprated shocks and lowering springs or go high up the market and how a browse through the suspension thread.

 

I can't recommend KW V1's enough, i've had low end FK's on mine before and the ride quality is fantastic even though mine is lowered alot! One thing to think about though is the softer the suspension you get, the more chance of scrubbing you get on what look like 17's

[dukest 0]

spring rate is the main point of the threads, but damping is obviously important too - the threads are here

 

fla's - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72447&hilit=fla+koni#p841751

 

herisites discussions -

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=39334&p=1095573&hilit=gaz#p1095573

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=46228&p=1095512&hilit=crashy#p1095512

[Fanjita 1]

Thanks guys,

 

So if I invested in some decent suspension, would I be able to soften it without changing anything else or would I need to roll the arches and remove the liners?

[dukest 0]

50mm isn't normally so bad but obviously softer springs equals more compression for the same forces so they might cause a bit of rubbing depending on the spec of your wheels. depending on your budget you could still tweak the height to address this though. depends what you're prepared to change and spend on changing it.

[corozin 0]

Thanks guys,

 

So if I invested in some decent suspension, would I be able to soften it without changing anything else or would I need to roll the arches and remove the liners?

 

Softness depends more on the spring rates used than the dampers. All the dampers do is control the rate of bound/rebound (or "bouncy" level if that's easier to understand) but if the suspension is basically crashy or too hard then you need to replace the springs somehow.

 

Coilovers are a more expensive but ultimately better solution as most of them use a spring which is effectively two springs in one; a wider softer wind at one end to provide a softer element for small bump absorbsion and then a shorter, tighter, harder wind for firmness under hard cornering.

 

I have Konis but there are a number of options (KW, H&W, Sachs, Bilstein, Leda) and each have thier fans. Each kit is different in feel and firmness, as the spring rates in each make differ but also the dampers too. The KW coilovers are very popular. I think Konis are better but they are also a lot more expensive. Leda is the most expensive but allow damper bound/rebound to be adjusted seperately (most of the kits mentioned allow just allow bound adjustment)

[Rob_B 0]

ive got kW V3's on mine and they are fantastic. expensive but worth every penny. i was in the same boat as you and found that spending the money is the only real way to achieve a softer ride while maintaining the height

[Abdul 0]

Did u mean Supersport mate? If so they are super stiff and that would explain why.

 

Ive had weitec GT's on my valver which ride the same as KW V1s and tbh they ride shit but handle great. Ive now had FK Konigsports (koni adjustable dampers) on both my mk3 and my rado vr6 and they're both lower than yours and ride great.

 

Id change em for Konigsports if i was u.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

i was in the same boat as you and found that spending the money is the only real way to achieve a softer ride while maintaining the height

 

8)

[V33DUB 0]

I got a second hand KW spring and shock set that had done 1000 miles according to the seller and they seemed in good condition. I'm really impressed with the ride and the height.... I haven't measured but from standard the rear must be a good 60-70mm lower and the front probably 20mm. the kit states 30mm drop all round but this isn't accurate. Car is nice and even now. Ride is firm but very forgiving and not crashy at all. Only bang I've heard was when I hit a pretty big pothole :mad2: Would recommend them to anyone!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

This could be down to which car they are referencing a 30mm vehicle drop against, i.e. VR6 or early 4 cylinder?

 

A 30mm drop on a VR6 gives you the tried and tested "2 finger" gap, or perhaps 2.5 fingers depending on the sausaginess of peoples' fingers.

 

The early Rados were low as standard, compared to the 4x4 height of late VR6s, so it could be that KW are referencing against the VR6, which equates to a bigger actual vehicle drop on the 4 pots? :shrug: In other words the springs configured to lower a VR 30mm could in fact drop a 4 pot 50+ mm, if that makes sense?

 

Anyway, I've always maintained that the 2 finger gap with 17s is spot on. Since 17s jack the car up on their own anyway, I would probably go for 3 fingers on 15s to get the same vehicle height. And I like how the car behaves with the rear slightly lower than the front.

 

With 17s, you want no more than 32psi tyre pressure front and 30psi rear.

 

I've tried 17s with the factory 36psi and it wanders all over the shop, aswell as wearing out the middle of the tread prematurely.

 

And finally, softer spring rates with stiff bump and rebound takes the shock out holes and bumps nicely, whilst still keeping the car up round bends.

 

No one part on the suspension is responsible for ride quality. It is everything working together.

[Abdul 0]

Hey Kev, some good info right there... As mentioned above ive got the FK konigsports on my vr with the adjustable koni dampers... What would u say is a good setting for a nice balance of turn in and a bit of lift off fun?

 

I know its down to preference but i thought id ask someone who clearly knows more than me about suspension lol.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

When I had the Koni TAs and H&R springs on mine, I used to like 1.5 turns (from full soft) front and 0.5 turns rear :D

 

I hate that floaty soggy feeling, so I like my damping turned up! That doesn't work with hard springs though, well, springs that are TOO hard. You need to turn the damping down, so it's a catch 22 thing.

 

It takes a long time to strike the perfect ride / handling compromise but you will get there eventually. Start off with a less than desirable ride height and I guarantee the car will be less thumpy into holes and ruts. Then gradually wind it back down closer to your perferred right height until the point the crashiness comes back....somewhere between that and the 4x4 height will be your compromise.....but it's usually 2 fingers, to save you all that hassle :D

[Abdul 0]

When I had the Koni TAs and H&R springs on mine, I used to like 1.5 turns (from full soft) front and 0.5 turns rear :D

 

I hate that floaty soggy feeling, so I like my damping turned up! That doesn't work with hard springs though, well, springs that are TOO hard. You need to turn the damping down, so it's a catch 22 thing.

 

It takes a long time to strike the perfect ride / handling compromise but you will get there eventually. Start off with a less than desirable ride height and I guarantee the car will be less thumpy into holes and ruts. Then gradually wind it back down closer to your perferred right height until the point the crashiness comes back....somewhere between that and the 4x4 height will be your compromise.....but it's usually 2 fingers, to save you all that hassle :D

 

LOL thanks for that mate. I might just set em to what u said all round and fill her up with some fuel and visit some twistys and adust till im happyish. I have no clue as to how stiff the Fk springs are though but ill just fiddle till im happy.

 

The ride height isnt exactly jacked up now but its very comfortable at the moment. When i do go for 16s or 17s ill try my best to follow the 2 finger rule. No guarantees though! 0 gap is normally my thing but ill try to go for half a finger this time depending on tyres and how the car rides. I do fancy being able to thrash the VR. :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah I forgot to mention fill the tank before setting the ride height! You may also find you have to set the passenger side rear a little lower than the rear offside to compensate for the fuel weight pulling that side of the car down.

 

Yeah we all like the zero finger arch gap at first. And then we get old and start to prefer ride quality without the use of a piles ring :lol:

[Abdul 0]

Yeah I forgot to mention fill the tank before setting the ride height! You may also find you have to set the passenger side rear a little lower than the rear offside to compensate for the fuel weight pulling that side of the car down.

 

Yeah we all like the zero finger arch gap at first. And then we get old and start to prefer ride quality without the use of a piles ring :lol:

 

LOL

 

I agree, i used to love having my valver slammed when i first bought it but the ride was sickeningly poor tbh compared to higher rado's. I think this time i want a similar stance to how Zak's blackberry Vr is, nice and usable but looks the biz.

 

Your car needs all the arch gap it can get with the amount fo power you're running :lol: The arse end must seriously plant down when u put your foot down!

 

Thanks for the tip regarding the fuel tank. :salute: