Disastrous Clatter From VR6 - tensioner bolt causes rebuild!

[MikLSP 0]

Hi all, it seems I have a pretty major problem with my VR6! :-(

 

I had just driven the car with seemingly no problems until I parked up and came to restart the engine. The engine fired up but with a loud metallic clatter! I immediately turned the ignition off and had a look under the bonnet for anything obvious. There was nothing loose so I thought I would quickly try it again to see if the problem persisted and if I could tell where it was coming from.

 

Sure enough as soon as the engine turned over there was a terrible clatter which sounded like loose metal parts coming from the top of the engine!

 

I'm obviously assuming that this is going to be costly no matter what but would like some advise on what it likely to be the problem and what I will need to do to sort it properly. Is it most likely to be a dropped valve and if so what sort of knock on effect could this have had?

 

Mik :-(

 

UPDATE 1:

 

OK, got an update and the news is not great!

 

-The timing chain guides and tensioners are damaged.

-8 (eight) valves are damaged!!

-Lips on the edge of the bores

 

Advise is rebuild!

 

UPDATE 2:

Had the head reconditioned, 8 new valves, cylinders re-honed, new piston rings, bottom end rebuild, oil pump rebuild, all new chains and tensioners.

 

I think we may have found the original cause of the problem too, the tensioner bolt was unable to retain oil pressure so the seal must have gone resulted in a loss of chain tension and skipped teeth on the cams

 

Ultimately we have here a £1500 cost due to the failure of a £40 part!

[dukest 0]

not sure i really want to speculate on potential bad news, especially as you've just had the gearbox off already.. hope its not too serious whatever it is, but yes, the things you've listed are the likely candidates..

[MikLSP 0]

I am at least thankful that it didn't happen at high revs so hopefully it hasn't had knock on effects.

 

If a valve has gone what tends to be the extent of the repair and would I need to replace them all to stop the same thing happening again?

 

Mik

[fla 9]

take the rocker cover off and the top side plate and have a look, that'll rule out some obvious things. Remove the sparks and manually turn the engine over listening for the noisem you may be able to pinpoint it exactly.

If you have dropped a valves that will need to be replaced, i cant see it doing a huge amount of damage to the piston. You will deffo need to take the head off so that'll be a new set of bolts and head gasket. Most things will then be obvious from there, so it might not be as expensive as you think, hopefully...

[MikLSP 0]

I don't have anywhere near enough time to do this myself unfortunately so it will have to cost me more. At least it'll be piece of mind on the head gasket afterwards though and also I have a small oil leak from the rocker cover so that will be sorted too.

 

Does anyone know an approximate cost for this sort of work?

[8vMatt 1]

Could there be a forum member close by to you that would be able to look at this for you? Got to worth a few beers to them rather than hundreds paid to some garage :gag:

[MikLSP 0]

That would be very much appreciated actually, the car is stranded at Salmesbury KFC near Blackburn at the minute, just round the corner from my mums.

 

I'm probably going to need to shift it somewhere soon though.

[dr_mat 0]

Hmm, might be wise to join the AA and get it towed home ...

[Bullfinch 0]

Or get it towed to your mums pretty sharpish. A night outside a KFC...well I don't like to think about it. Hopefully you already use or know a decent mechanic where you live so they can do a quick diagnosis as per Fla's post on Monday.

[MikLSP 0]

It'll probably go to the same place in Burnley who has had it in for the previous jobs, just getting it there is the problem, I resent paying for recovery when I need that money for the repair lol.

 

Can't say I'm really feeling the benefits of Corrado ownership so far! :-(

[Reggit 0]

If you're still stuck on Tuesday and need it towing (on a rope) give me a shout as I'm only a few miles from where your car is stranded. Typically I'm away until late Monday.

[MikLSP 0]

Thanks Reggit, much appreciated. Got the car safe at my mums now, the garage should be sorting out getting it back there hopefully on Mon.

[PhatVR6 0]

Do not turn it over again. You risk it jumping a tooth. Sounds like the chain tensioner blade has failed, seen it loads of times on vr6's.

[MikLSP 0]

I haven't turned it over, certainly had no intention of doing that.

 

Incidentally the noise was quite cyclic and seemed to follow a repeating pattern rather than a random flailing sound.

[barrowfordred 0]

I haven't turned it over, certainly had no intention of doing that.

 

Incidentally the noise was quite cyclic and seemed to follow a repeating pattern rather than a random flailing sound.

Makes me thing it's valve related then, valve or tappet. As opposed to chain which I'd have thought would have been constant. But, what do I know :shrug:

[PhatVR6 0]

Cyclic noise is exactly the words Id use to describe failed cam chain tensioner

[barrowfordred 0]

Cyclic noise is exactly the words Id use to describe failed cam chain tensioner

Ah right, like I said, what do I know :)

[MikLSP 0]

Well I meant that it had a defined pattern within it like something repeatedly going up and down for example. I'm just imagining a flailing chain to be more erratic in it's noise but as I haven't heard either before I will just have to wait and see!

 

I had no chain noise before this but I know that doesn't always mean they are fine.

 

It is being towed to the garage as we speak :)

[dr_mat 0]

Depends where the chain fails.. if it fails at the bottom pulley or near there it'd probably be pulled all the way through, drop in the sump and stay there. Very quiet engine from then on, but the valves ain't moving ..

[Supercharged 2]

So what mileage is the car on??

[dukest 0]

was looking at the members gallery the other day and think it would be about 120k?

 

maybe someone can say whether anything could have been messed up while the gearbox was off recently? hate to say it but its a shame the chains werent changed or looked at (if they werent) while that recent work was being done..

[MikLSP 0]

The car is on 118k miles.

 

No sadly the chains weren't done when the gearbox was off the other week, had the clutch done though and I wasn't worried about the chains as they seemed quiet.

 

I'm pretty sure the chain itself didn't fail, the noise was certainly not something falling off and then going quiet. I guess I'm just going to have to wait for the garage verdict though. I suppose best case scenario here is just a tappet as that will only need to go as far as the rocker cover coming off won't it? In a way though I almost want to get the head off so I know the gasket is then a new one.

 

What sort of things should also be considered at the same time as this kind of work?

[muppetlab 0]

Sticking valve?? Had my car off the road for a few weeks and when restarted it sounded like a cross between flying to bits and a diesel engine. Soon went quiet though, but to be honest my engine is not the best so i dont really worry about it. As you say the noise was rythmical i would guess valve gear rather than chains which would i think be more constant. Good luck hope its not too expensive.

[dukest 0]

I'm pretty sure the chain itself didn't fail, the noise was certainly not something falling off and then going quiet.

maybe not, but if the tensioner guide has gone then the chain will be loose and potentially jumping teeth

 

In a way though I almost want to get the head off so I know the gasket is then a new one.

is probably the best thing to do yes.

[MikLSP 0]

Just spoke to the garage and while he hasn't had the chance to get it in bits yet he briefly turned it over to assess the noise :mad2:

The first comment was "it doesn't sound good does it" lol!

 

He thinks it's more than just a knackered tappet and is assuming a dropped valve. I just hope that there isn't any knock of effects!!

 

He also said that if it looks like the piston has hit something then new chains would be needed in case it has stressed a link.

 

Well it seems like this is going to be a bad one, just a question of how bad! :(

I'd love to hear of anyone who has seen something similar?