bye bye Civic type R and now Focus ST!!!

[big ben 10]

so they wont be made for the UK no more then... i love racing them to, one of the best cars to thrash the pants off

 

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... rs/251839/

 

great engine, hate the looks of the new one though

[mrbeige 0]

I'm so gutted.......

[domwells27 0]

Ouch! Nice car to be taken off the road just for some EU bullsh**t

 

Prefer the older shape but still a shame

[big ben 10]

would imagine quite a few cars will have the same problem in the future

[Corrado_Addict 0]

It was worse than the old one so who cares :)

 

Give me an ep3 or dc2 over one of them anyday of the week!

[tandino 0]

Despite what some of you guys think on here, Honda have made some of the best engined hot hatches over the last decade or so, might hurt to accept it but once youve driven something like a EP3 or a DC2 it changes your whole slant on things....

[Wendy 0]

Sahme as I agree, a brilliant car for the Track and having a good race about in.

 

I have done most of my Track Days in the Type R.

Its high revving which has always seemed to bother some folk, but

It holds the road superbly and in my opinion is very forgiving.

 

Lacks on top speed though - observed partically at Silverstone and Snetterton !!

 

In terms of looks then its not my thing, I agree the old one looks much better

[mrbeige 0]

Despite what some of you guys think on here, Honda have made some of the best engined hot hatches over the last decade or so

I heartily agree. However, the current one is dogsh*t and I'm glad it's being axed :lol:

[tandino 0]

I agree, the newest model has fallen off the pace somewhat but to me if that is the end of the K20a engine and other high reving honda 4 pots for the forseable then its a crying shame..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Despite what some of you guys think on here, Honda have made some of the best engined hot hatches over the last decade or so, might hurt to accept it but once youve driven something like a EP3 or a DC2 it changes your whole slant on things....

 

In your opinion.

 

I have driven a MK1 CTR and a DC5 integra and they did not change my slant on things at all, least of all the engine, which I never have and never will like in normally aspirated form.

 

I would own a DC5 though (with a turbo conversion), without question, as it's a good all rounder out of the box, but it isn't the paragon of handling that some people make it out to be. It's better than a lot of other cars purely because it has unrelentingly stiff suspension and an LSD from the factory, which is not hard to replicate on other cars.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

would imagine quite a few cars will have the same problem in the future

 

Absolutely. Euro5 is very tough. Porsche threatened to pull production from Europe if the original EU5 targets were actually pushed through, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. If Porsche leave, others will follow, which will bring Germay's manufacturing industry to it's knees!

[big ben 10]

scary stuff then really, we need these porsches and Type R's to race thats for sure :grin:

[tandino 0]

Despite what some of you guys think on here, Honda have made some of the best engined hot hatches over the last decade or so, might hurt to accept it but once youve driven something like a EP3 or a DC2 it changes your whole slant on things....

 

In your opinion.

 

I have driven a MK1 CTR and a DC5 integra and they did not change my slant on things at all, least of all the engine, which I never have and never will like in normally aspirated form.

 

I would own a DC5 though (with a turbo conversion), without question, as it's a good all rounder out of the box, but it isn't the paragon of handling that some people make it out to be. It's better than a lot of other cars purely because it has unrelentingly stiff suspension and an LSD from the factory, which is not hard to replicate on other cars.

 

Yes it is my opinion.

And after driving a DC2 ITR for some time now it is without doubt one of, if not the best car ive driven as an overall package.

Im 37 years old and have driven a fair number of cars on both road and track in my time so i think ive got a fair idea of what a good handling car should feel like by now.

You only have to look at the engineering in it in terms of its suspension - ie multilink both front and rear to realise that Honda really knew what they were doing with that car, don't think that can be easilly replicated at all, the EP3 imho is not a patch on the DC2 suspension wise either.

Ive never driven another car that is both firm yet has enough compliance in the suspension to aliviate body roll and stay controlled yet still ride bumps well enough to not throw it off line.

As for the engine, i guess it depends what you want, personally the fact it is totally Jekyll & Hyde is part of the appeal to me, ive never found it particularly lacking in torque either when compared to a N/A VR, turbocharged, sure it will feel gutless but thats not a fair comparison, on track it where it comes into its own and that is essentially what it is designed for.

I hate to say this but it totally runs rings round anything ive ever driven in the same league before, Corrado included.

And Kev, if you can show me one other car that compares in the same class please do, ive not found one yet as an overall package.

[Corrado_Addict 0]

I have to agree with that point.

 

I was taken out in a friends DC2 and I thought my red g60 handled like it was on rails, to be honest I wouldn't had much hope in keeping pace with the dc2 and that was in standard form, it corners and handles in a way that you really do need too experience to believe, I'm not trying to take anything away from the corrado's capabilities but I'm not the 1st person to say a corrado wouldn't know what way the car went. Its an absolute beauty, thoroughly looking forward to a trackday with it as well.

 

Its a great all round car because it is the best of both worlds, compliant and quiet then when you really want to just grab it by the scruff of its neck you can, it really is a pure drivers car and one of the things that appeals to me is the fact they are rare (well up this way anyway). But again it doesn't feel as special as the corrado, in terms of performance though the dc2 is sublime.

[tandino 0]

I agree, the Corrado is the more special car to be in in terms of looks and the cabin, the Honda is awful in this respect but they spent the money where it counts imho, the powerplant and the suspension, when you look at the underpinning of a DC2 versus a Corrado its like night and day.

They are both great cars, as a daily i probably couldnt live with the DC2 and its lack of refinement which is also the reason why its so fleet footed, its got nothing in it and as a result it is noisy in comparison to the VR, if i wanted to go out for a blast then the DC2 gives the most feedback and thrills.

Daily = Corrado Vr if you have to do any kind of mileage, Thrills = DC2.

[Abdul 0]

I agree, the Corrado is the more special car to be in in terms of looks and the cabin, the Honda is awful in this respect but they spent the money where it counts imho, the powerplant and the suspension, when you look at the underpinning of a DC2 versus a Corrado its like night and day.

They are both great cars, as a daily i probably couldnt live with the DC2 and its lack of refinement which is also the reason why its so fleet footed, its got nothing in it and as a result it is noisy in comparison to the VR, if i wanted to go out for a blast then the DC2 gives the most feedback and thrills.

Daily = Corrado Vr if you have to do any kind of mileage, Thrills = DC2.

 

Ive been out in both a number of times now, well i own a vr a friend has a dc2.

 

I hate to say it but i struggle like no mans business to keep up with dc2 in the twistys and the corrado normaly leaves most hot hatch type cars when it sees bends!

 

I would have one but couldnt live with it everyday like u said, just too unrefined, I dont mind harsh rides etc but i cant stand road noise and the teg has loads of it. Amazing drivers cars though and i am quite fond of the whole Vtec thing! I do rape him in the straights though :lol:

[wy906 0]

DC2 is a few years younger than VR6 though.

 

However I agree, DC2 is a brilliant car; last time ‘tandino’ took me out in his, I was LOL LOL LOL. 8)

[tandino 0]

I do rape him in the straights though :lol:

 

Your mate either can't drive or he's got something seriously amiss with his DC2 !.

I would imagine a tweaked VR would be with a stock UKDM DC2 but it certainly wouldnt rape one.

My JDM car was dyno'd at 208bhp with a few little mods - much the same as the typical things to do with a VR Corrado, that and 1060kg equals quick enough to hold a tweaked VR easily on the straights.3

 

Regardless, the whole topic was about the Civic Type R, its a shame that potentially the Type R is being dropped regardless of what the current model is like, previous incarnations have been great cars imho..

[Corrado_Addict 0]

If you were seriously considering the new type r though wouldn't you think about importing a civic coupe instead? or even going for a dc5, a lot of money saved and with a lot of spare cash could be well spent elsewhere.

[Jim 1]

Good friend of mine at work has a current shape Civic Type R. It was his dream car and he bought it about 10 months ago. And he hates it. It turned out not to be the car he thought it would be.

 

Interior build quality is awful - bits of trim regularly fall off without much provocation. The ride is very very firm (and he's still a fairly young guy so not someone who'd generally complain about hard ride quality!) and the engine (whilst enjoyable when on song) suffers from bad throttle response and flatspots in the power which he hates.

 

He's already trying to work out how to ditch it and buy a Scirocco!

[davidwort 0]

would imagine quite a few cars will have the same problem in the future

 

Absolutely. Euro5 is very tough. Porsche threatened to pull production from Europe if the original EU5 targets were actually pushed through, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. If Porsche leave, others will follow, which will bring Germay's manufacturing industry to it's knees!

 

Was speaking to a friend who works at VW head office in the UK, there seem to have been a number of concessions built into the future EU motor industry legislation.

'Volume' manufacturers need to bring their overall model range CO[sub:23wx07o5]2[/sub:23wx07o5] emissions down to a fairly low value in the coming years, somthing like 130g I think, apparently BMW are there already, FIAT too, but other's like VW have some way to go.

There are some interesting details though, I can't remember the exact figures he gave me, but if manufacturers exceed these values they get fined per car they make which applies to each gram of CO[sub:23wx07o5]2[/sub:23wx07o5] above the average their cars reach.

But there are also 'weightings' or concessions that consider vehicle weight, so if you build heavier cars you get away with more basically.

I assume this means a Porsche that only manages 30mpg combined, would effectively have more tax on it in total, but not be legislated off the road.

I guess this was part of the reason the V6/R32 engine went too.

[craigowl 0]

Just a subjective impression, but people seem to lose Type Rs into the countryside up here.

One instance I know of is where the driver is blaming the roads authority for heavy rain allegedly not draining away properly on a road on which he was speeding past witnesses who said they could hardly see in the dark and the rain.

I guess you have to know how to drive it prudently for starters. :lol:

They seem to be acquired by highly paid young men in banking, e.g, who can comfortably afford them and the insurance but are not too skilled in dealing with the free-revving engine?

Hate the look of the current one - the older things are far more stylish in my opinion.

[Abdul 0]

I do rape him in the straights though :lol:

 

Your mate either can't drive or he's got something seriously amiss with his DC2 !.

 

 

Im pretty sure hes is a stock 190bhp model?

 

I dont reallly rape him untill we pass speed limit but yeah before that its pretty equal, i always seem to pull away though once im in 3rd. Oh and we've swapped cars and the same thing happens. Mind you, im convinced my vr's got some more work done as its quicker then others ive driven but i wont know untill i RR it i guess so will update on my thread soon...

 

Which car do u prefer overall? Not talking about as a daily or a weekend car but if u had to name one, which?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yes it is my opinion.

And after driving a DC2 ITR for some time now it is without doubt one of, if not the best car ive driven as an overall package.

Im 37 years old and have driven a fair number of cars on both road and track in my time so i think ive got a fair idea of what a good handling car should feel like by now.

 

Snap. I am also 37 years old and have also owned and driven several performance cars and can join you in the "have a fair idea of what a good handling car should feel like" club :D

 

You only have to look at the engineering in it in terms of its suspension - ie multilink both front and rear to realise that Honda really knew what they were doing with that car, don't think that can be easilly replicated at all, the EP3 imho is not a patch on the DC2 suspension wise either.

Ive never driven another car that is both firm yet has enough compliance in the suspension to aliviate body roll and stay controlled yet still ride bumps well enough to not throw it off line.

 

No one is questioning Honda's engineering prowess. As a company, I do like their products overall, just not the VTEC powerplant in normally aspirated form as I said previously. I love their motorbikes, I love the DC5, I like the S2000 and I sort of liked the MK1 CTR for it's very rigid bodyshell, but that car WAS thrown off line mid corner very easily I found, but I don't know if it's underpinnings were DC2 spec or not. I haven't driven a DC2, so I'll take your word for it. The DC5 I drove, being a JDM car, was a bit too stiff on the country lanes I chose to test it on and as a result it wasn't the most composed of cars, but it showed real potential. The steering, even under power into a bend, was so neutral, I couldn't tell if the car was RWD, FWD or 4WD, which for a FWD car, is astounding.

Integras do have a good handling reputation, I'm not disputing that.

The Civic on the other hand, is a bit so-so imo.

 

As for the engine, i guess it depends what you want, personally the fact it is totally Jekyll & Hyde is part of the appeal to me, ive never found it particularly lacking in torque either when compared to a N/A VR, turbocharged, sure it will feel gutless but thats not a fair comparison, on track it where it comes into its own and that is essentially what it is designed for.

 

Who's comparing a VTEC to a turbo VR6? I mentioned turbos from a persepective of adding one to a VTEC. They have massive amounts of head flow, which is why they turbo so well, and the gearboxes are strong too. Use the right size turbine housing and you retain the Jekyll / Hide character, only Hide hits a lot harder. In fact, a turboed DC5 was on my mind as a project for a long time, but importing / finding one for reasonable money was difficult back then.

 

I agree, VTECs aren't as gutless low down as you'd think, thanks to low vehicle weight and very short gearing. Where it's lack of torque was most noticable for me was in the midrange out of it's VTEC zone. But then again, apart from the Vauxhall XE red top and Rover VVC, show me a 16V motor that IS torquey off cam. Have you driven a Celica 1800 VVT? My god that is a gutless engine.

And speaking of the VTEC zone, in the cars I've tried it doesn't 'kick in' with anything like as much vigour as the hype would suggest, which was a dissapointment. I've been a passenger in an S2000 though and that is unbelievably gutless off-cam, but, I noticed it had more guts in the top end than the other VTECs.

 

I hate to say this but it totally runs rings round anything ive ever driven in the same league before, Corrado included.

And Kev, if you can show me one other car that compares in the same class please do, ive not found one yet as an overall package.

 

You haven't driven my car :D Kidding....

 

I've had a few road tussles with DC2s over the years, yes, when mine was naturally aspirated and had no trouble keeping with them on the twisty outbacks of deepest, darkest Norfolk. I would say it was an even match, and yes, the lads in question could drive as I knew them. I always put a lot of investment into the chassis of all the cars I own and regardless of the Corrado's low tech underpinnings compared to the Integras, it doesn't half do a good job if you do the right things with the right parts. On the track, then yeah the Honda would have a big advantage compared to a VR6 purely from it being 200kg lighter!!

 

Out of the box, standard v Standard, then yep, the Integ is in a league of it's own but again, no one was disputing that :D

[big ben 10]

who would leave an old car standard anyway when there is so many good parts you can buy :grin: