worn stub axles?

[davidwort 0]

Both of my cars seem to alway have some play in the rear bearings, a bit more than I'm happy with as normal, irrespective of bearing supplier, I'm now thinking that perhaps the stub axles are past their best, particularly as there seems to be more play vertically (with the wheel bolts back on) than horizontally.

Is there a way to check the stub axles? AFAIK neither car has had bearing failure on the back ever, in fact my bearings only really get replaced when I change disks and the old ones are usually pecfectly servicable (no point in attempting to remove and fit to a new disk obviously).

Any advice, comments etc?

Are new, pattern stub axles OK?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I guess you must mean the there is play between the stub axle and inner race?

 

Interesting point. Next time I do the rears I'll slide an inner race on and check that!

[Supercharged 2]

They can wear but I thought that was always due to bearing failure / cheapo bearings and also you'd see some sort of wear marks etc...

 

Are you taking the play out before you fit Dave - ie hand tight then do up with a 1/4 turn on a ratchet then back off and re-tighten by hand? - I do mine this way and seem to get it perfect every time now with no adjustment needed

[KipVR 1]

I ditched both of mine for new ones. The best way to check is to put them in a lathe holding them by the shaft. Then run a clock over the back face as you rotate them. Both mine were bent slightly and both had slight ridging on the shaft, so it seems if the shaft has a slight ridge in it, chances are it's bent too. Can't comment on VAG or pattern parts, but personally i'd play it safe and use VAG bits.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

How much are new stubs?

 

Might get a pair before VAG obsolete them!

[Neokitz 0]

stub axles are 107.50 euros each according to vagcat..

 

333501117 - Left stub axle 107.50 euros

333501118 - Right stub axle 107.50 euros

 

dont know what that is in pound sterling tho??

[nocrap 0]

Currently £159.18 each including vat with no discount!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Hmmm, maybe not then :lol:

[aide 0]

Currently £159.18 each including vat with no discount!

 

crikey, they've gone up, used to be £130 ish.

[davidwort 0]

...Are you taking the play out before you fit Dave - ie hand tight then do up with a 1/4 turn on a ratchet then back off and re-tighten by hand? - I do mine this way and seem to get it perfect every time now with no adjustment needed

 

I've tried every way that people have suggested, yourself, Kev etc.,

I usually nip them up and back off a couple of times to make sure they are seated, and I always run grease into them by hand before assembly.

It just struck me that there appears to be a bit more play vertically than horizontally (it's not the shock/spring moving) and that would tally with the direction in which most of the forces are applied to the hub - well that was my thought anyway.

 

Perhaps I will have them off the 16v and run a dial gauge on them, think I can find someone with a lathe to mount them on somewhere,

well, once I've re-done the shower etc., after spending the last 3 months on the 8v I've promised Jen I'll do something on the house :)

[Bazmcc 0]

Any decent engineer would be able to churn out an exact copy of a VW stub axel at a fraction of the price.

 

I destroyed one when a bearing basically blew itself in pieces without warning.

[KipVR 1]

Perhaps I will have them off the 16v and run a dial gauge on them, think I can find someone with a lathe to mount them on somewhere,

 

Before you do that just have a look to see if there is a slight ridge on the top side of the shaft Dave, like you already figured you won't get play unless the shaft is no longer round. If there is a ridge (like a polished ring that runs around the top 3rd of the shaft where the bearing seats onto it), it needs replacing anyway. If that makes sence :D

 

What do later VW's use? Could they be adapted to fit?

[davidwort 0]

 

Before you do that just have a look to see if there is a slight ridge on the top side of the shaft Dave, like you already figured you won't get play unless the shaft is no longer round. If there is a ridge (like a polished ring that runs around the top 3rd of the shaft where the bearing seats onto it), it needs replacing anyway. If that makes sence :D

 

What do later VW's use? Could they be adapted to fit?

 

cheers, will do :salute:

I'll have a look at the mk4 to see what the axles are like, got to do the rear shocks on that this week anyway :roll:

I know the bearings are totally different, more like the fronts IIRC.

[Supercharged 2]

You need Lupo stub axles to do that conversion plus a load of other parts including bearings that are £55 each...

[davidwort 0]

Ah, OK then.

 

touch of the insomnia, here's a few pics of the nearside rear axle:

 

difficult to see because of the reflections, but the top of the axle is smooth and polished, the leading edge is discoloured (but seems smooth), this is where the outer bearing sits

 

and a couple of cool pumpkins we did for Sunday night :lol:

[davidwort 0]

so what do you reckon?

got new disks and bearings coming today, will see if I can get a better fit with brand new parts.

[KipVR 1]

Can you feel any sort of ridge with your fingernail? If you can't then I'd say they are ok, I've tried to find the pics I took but can't find them...

 

You could also put a micrometer on them just to check it all for a constant diameter. :D

 

Nice pumpkin skills!!

[Toad 0]

Have you got a set of vernier calipers? If you think they have worn into an eliptical shape that should be easy to measure.

 

Is there a difference between where the inner and outer races sit?

 

Edit, got beaten to it....

[davidwort 0]

I most certainly do have a micrometer, should have thought of that,

failed on the brake discs, picked them up from my dad's and they are non-abs ones :roll: so will try the new discs on tomorrow.

Odd thing with the discs is, the abs rings popped off the old ones with a very gentle lift from a little 3 leg puller, and they fit on the non-abs brembo disks just fine, it's just they aren't a tight fit to stop them spinning :shrug: otherwise there's no difference between the abs and non-abs ones :confused4:

all this abs stuff is new to me :)

[Yandards 0]

I always spin the disc and do the bearing nut up until the disc just stops spinning, then back off the whole lot and do it as per the rubbish book instructions.

 

We used to fit Herc mainwheels the same way (stub axle and tapered roller bearings) do them up really tight then back off and re-torque.

 

The reason is that the stub axles are tapered and you need to ensure that the inner bearing is sat as far onto the taper as it can go, as long as you can still spin the disc you are not going to nerf the bearing and it's unloaded anyway; the main reason for the back off is to ensure free running and prevent execessive heat build up anyway.

 

Looking at the state of the roads and given the way the bearings fit the axle it's not suprising if they are all a little bent.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I always spin the disc and do the bearing nut up until the disc just stops spinning, then back off the whole lot and do it as per the rubbish book instructions.

 

x2

 

I'm also going to try and get hold of the bearing greaser Stealth use. You pop the bearing onto a plastic holder, then pump it into the pot of grease a few times. This really pumps the bearing full of grease prior to assembly, meaning you don't have to cram so much into the cavities and rely on centrifugal dispersion etc etc....

[davidwort 0]

I always spin the disc and do the bearing nut up until the disc just stops spinning, then back off the whole lot and do it as per the rubbish book instructions.

 

x2

 

I'm also going to try and get hold of the bearing greaser Stealth use. You pop the bearing onto a plastic holder, then pump it into the pot of grease a few times. This really pumps the bearing full of grease prior to assembly, meaning you don't have to cram so much into the cavities and rely on centrifugal dispersion etc etc....

 

I find just turning the bearing on my finger with grease liberally dolloped onto it works it in OK, as you suggest, filling the dome cap with grease is pointless as the grease won't make it from there onto the bearing, it wants to go in the opposite direction :)

I'd not really thought about the fitting of the bearing onto the stub axle, it's obviously got to be fairly tight to push the bearing on snugly, in my head I'd only been thinking about squeezing out the excess grease to get a close fit of the bearings in their races, but nipping it up and slackening (as I do anyway) obviously helps to make sure the bearings themselves are seated properly on the axle, I've always been a bit worried about over-doing the initial tightening/seating and damaging the bearing, but from what you chaps say I don't think that's an issue unless I use the breaker bar :)

 

although the bearings I've just taken off are visually in good nick and don't roar when spun I think they must have play in them, but of course like a lot of components it's only when they are fully loaded up that the play can be evident, in this case the extra leverage you have on the hub when the wheel is bolted back up.

[davidwort 0]

well in the end the stub axles were fine, I reckon I've just been too gentle with the bearings in the past, this time they got a good tighten up to seat them on the stub axles and I've now got next to no play at all... which is nice :)

washers are still moveable and discs spin freely.

 

Bit of a result with the discs, ordered 2 pagid discs and sets of pads from ECP, discs non ABS ones by mistake, they are identical to the ABS ones but just minus the ABS rings.

 

pop the old rings off the old discs, pinch them together very very slightly to make a tight fit on the new disc and away.

 

non ABS discs are half the price (trade) of the ABS ones and come with that special paint coating to stop them rusting too :clap:

(the abs ones we ordered later to compare are bare steel and just oil coated which needs cleaning off)

 

removing old abs rings, not tight at all, just that the puller was easiest way to pop them off.

 

old ring pushed onto new disc

 

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

I suspect I have a worn drivers side stub axle, for love nor money I cant get the bearing/disc to settle, the disc/bearing has no real play but seems to be able to move/jump into 2 places, the first place being perfect how it should be with no disc rub, then you grab the wheel give it a little wiggle and then spin it and it rubs like if the disc is bent! , give it another little wiggle and its back to being perfect! but when driven its just a chaffing noise that's p33ing me off! I think because the disc cant settle in one constant spot Im getting this disc rubbing! anyone else had this? , also anyone used these ? don't like the prices of heard of genuine stub axles {£100 + each } but then again I don't like the thought of a cheap one breaking !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK2-MK3-GTI-VR6-VW-CORRADO-REAR-STUB-AXLE-C355-/190538492900?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c5cfaabe4

Edited July 14, 2013 by VW_OwneR_85

[KipVR 1]

Seem a bit too cheap! Probably softer steel (or lower class casting) to achieve that price. Fine for a summer day car, not so good for a daily. How about a second hand vw one? That's what I bought, from a Mk3 a pair for £35 They were fine. If you do get them second hand, make sure the donor isn't on hard suspension- that kills them.