Abf cams in a 9a?

[samthegram 10]

Does anyone run this combination and if so how does it drive and do you have a power/torque run printout?

[Abdul 0]

I think you'll want to speak to Davidwort about this... He knows his way around the valvers....

 

From what i understand KR's are the best to go on a standard 9a but your's is fettled so i have no clue!!

[davidwort 0]

truth is I don't know yet, I have a pair I'm planning on trying in my gasflowed head, but the KR cams are designed for the short block (KR/9A) engine and the ABF engine has a number of changes and variations to the early 16v engines, not least a totally different, fully electronic injection system and I'd imagine the cam profiles were designed to be optimised for those features.

My guess is that the extra lift of an ABF inlet cam may make the KR/9A engine a little more peaky but may rob some low end. But to be fair there are a fair few complete ABF engines running on K-jet (particuarly in mk2 golfs) and they develop pretty good power even without flowed heads.

I guess the big question is how the ABF head is matched to the ABF cams and whether a KR/9A head casting and valvetrain interacts less than perfectly with those cam profiles :shrug:

Once I've finished refitting my bathroom I'll try it and tell you for sure :lol:

[Abdul 0]

Once I've finished refitting my bathroom I'll try it and tell you for sure :lol:

 

So next year? :lol:

[samthegram 10]

Thanks David, look forward to your findings. I was thinking of a pair running with a Kent vernier pulley to get the most from them.

I am keen on keeping the O.E setup of K-EJet but at the same time getting the most out of the head + block whilst keeping it N/A.

200bhp with maybe 165lb/ft is my target. 8)

To help matters over the winter I have a baffled sump and windage tray, full alloy dual core rad and more efficient induction set up getting fitted.

So If Abf cams work I will book it in to D&G and get them to fit them along with their ecu/chip tune up and I should be nearly there.

[dragon 0]

Let me know if you manage to achive even close to that mate and what you have done, my engine has had a fair bit done to it and its nowhere near that , im gettin a vernier pully soon but even that wont get me close to 200 bhp and 165 ft/lb

[samthegram 10]

Will do matey, mine is currently running 180bhp with 145lb/ft. check out my thread for a full spec list. Your spec looks similar tbh, see what you think.

[pumbaa 0]

I'm running a flowed & skimmed abf head and cams, DG map and setup, stainless & 4 branch, flowed throttle body and inlet manifold, removed snorkel and some brand spanking new injectors. I will be running a cold air feed soon too. Need to get it on a rr but haven't had the time. I think 200 horses might be optimistic but i'd be well pleased if i got anywhere near 190. I cant say the abf cams made it feel anymore peaky than the kr i had in my old mk2 i'd probably say its less so but i only drove it briefly for 2 days before the re-map and it's not that 'peaky' now. I'd be very interested to see what the kr and abf's produce side by side.

 

The abf inlet has both higher lift and duration than the kr and the exhaust has higher lift but less duration than the kr. Also the abf's have an overlap which might help things higher up the rev range. One thing you will notice with the abf's is the engine cranks once or twice before firing when starting due to the overlap.

 

Will let you know results when i finally rr it. I have also been toying with the idea of twin exhaust cams but i've heard i may loose a fair bit of pull lower down the revs and when re-building the engine i have some running issues and so stuck safe with a matched pair of cams.

 

I have a windage tray yet to be fitted but tbh i thought that was really to help keep oil in the sump when cornering hard much like a baffled sump.

 

I also have a 'kent' vernier pulley im wanting to fit but i can't seem to get hold of the right size woodruff key. Any ideas?

Also, i was under the impression a vernier pulley would only really shift the power band up or down? Have also been searching for a vernier sprocket at a reasonable price for a while but no luck. ANy ideas on that one too?

 

And finally, i was under the impression that there were very few differences between the 9a head and the abf head? I know the exhaust valve seats on the abf actually match the valves unlike on the 9a and kr, and that early kr's had larger inlets and smaller exhausts, but i also thought that the later 9a's had an abf head anyway?

 

Also worth noting that abf tappets are lighter than kr/9a tappets and abf valves are held with 3 ridge collets instead of 1.

[samthegram 10]

Very interesting there Pumbaa, Some of the points you made are a bit over my head tbh e.g .. vernier pulley only moving the powerband up or down, I thought they were for making fine adjustments to the timming. Also the bit about the tappets is more then my little head can take :roll: :scratch:

I might give D&G a call as I would get them to fit the pulley and cams and do the remap and see what they say.

Cheers for the info. Post up when you get yours rolling roaded. 8)

[dragon 0]

With the V pully i was told you can have a little extra bhp or torque but not both just depends if you set it advanced or retard . Was also told they are only really worth having with after market cams

[pumbaa 0]

Lighter tappets = less weight for the cams to push so in theory (in my own head, someone else might want to throw in their 2p) should be more freely revving, we are talking on a micro scale here but with a valver.... every little helps!

 

I think you're right there dragon, from what i know its a trade off between power up top or grunt down low, a vernier pulley alone will only ever advance or retard both cams at the same time, in order to play with inter-cam timing and achieve the highest possible output torque and/or bhp wise you need a vernier pulley on the exhaust and an internal vernier sprocket on the inlet side. You can then set inlet and exhaust to open and close as soon and as late as possible and play with overlap. Gains will will be minimal unless you're going turbo but as said before... every little helps! :D

 

Hence why i'm after a vernier sprocket at a reasonable price and not from Lithuania.

 

What vernier pulleys do you guys have, and are the woodruff keys built in or separate?

[pumbaa 0]

I'm looking to fit an uprated clutch and lightened flywheel. Any ideas on what else VAG will fit? Maybe some kind or tdi clutch? Will a mk2 or mk4 clutch fit? Sorry identity stupid q's, I don't know too much about clutch / gearbox assembly.

[samthegram 10]

Mmm......forgive me for being a bit daft but how can you adjust the vernier chain sproket when the rocker cover and inlet assembly are back on?

Does that mean the whole lot has to come off every time to make minor adjustments or is it something that can be pre-determined and set before hand?

P.S not sure about clutches or woodruff keys either, sorry.

[pumbaa 0]

Yup, to adjust the sprocket its a inlet & rocker cover off job.

[samthegram 10]

That seems a bit of a ball ache of a job! :brickwall:

[pumbaa 0]

Yeah but once you have it right.....

[samthegram 10]

I suppose...marginal gains and all that. If I want to crack the 200bhp barrier it's all the little things that add up.

[Bazmcc 0]

Any more info on this subject?

 

I have a 9a and want to upgrade the cams to go with my 4 branch manifold, decat, milltek, and 50mm intake manifold. My car has lost a bit of power since fitting the 4 branch. I think I might be overfueling slightly.

 

Here's what I've got on the ABF and KR cams. Has anyone got figures on the 9a cams?

 

ABF Cams:

Intake Cam: Duration 219 deg @ 1mm, 10.8mm maximum valve lift

Exhaust Cam: 220 deg @ 1mm, also 10.8mm maximum valve lift

 

KR cams:

Intake: Duration: 218 @ 1mm, 9.6mm lift

Exhaust: Duration: 226 @ 1mm, 10.21mm lift

 

Going by this info is it possible or reccomended to mix and match these. For example, an abf intake cam with a kr exhaust cam? I've been told to maybe just fit the ABF cams. I have KR cams sitting in my garage but I know where there's a set of ABFs for little money too.

 

Any advice would be great. I have another RR day or 2 coming up in january and february so I can keep check on my results.

[davidwort 0]

nearest to what you are after is in the 16v section of Club GTI, KR head and cams on an ABF bottom end and an ABF head and cams on an ABF block, don't think there's a lot in it and any difference is probably down to the ABF head and valves rather than the cams.

[Bazmcc 0]

Well I don't intend on changing my head or block. My corrado is a daily driver with a few tweaks so I was hoping to find out what the best cam combination was on an otherwise standard set of 9a internals. It appears that most testing a trails have been done on KR engines. Would this be correct? It feels like a lot more people have KRs than 9as.

[davidwort 0]

not at all, plenty of 9A 2L cars have had a KR inlet cam added in place of the flat 9A one (exhaust cams are the same) and it gives good results, a 9A head is very similar to a KR one, that will make next to no difference.

[Bazmcc 0]

OK so I'll leave the 9a exhaust cam as it is then and just fit the KR inlet cam. I'll probably put the 50mm inlet on tonight and see how that runs. I should be able to get the cam fitted during the xmas holidays.

[pumbaa 0]

The 50mm inlet is known to add only a few extra horses at the very top end but rob you of a fair amount of torque down low

[pumbaa 0]

I'm running abf cams and Dave at DG Autotech said he was able to advance my timing more than Jakes (swompy on this forum) but.... and here's the big BUT, i have a ported abf head. Still haven't dyno'd it yet though!

 

I am considering using a KR exhaust cam and an ABF exhaust cam chopped to fit as an inlet cam to see how that does but i haven't had the time and i dont know whether i'll run into any problems as my ecu has been remapped by DG.

[Bazmcc 0]

I'm running all my mods on a completely stock ECU. I don't intend to have it mapped until I have everything bolted onto it and my engine mounts replaced.

 

pumbaa - won't having both cams at 226 cause too much over-lapping?

 

Quick off topic question. Where is anyone buying throttle body gaskets?