Camber etc after lowering NOW HOW TO DIY ALIGNMENT!

[eugopnosaj 0]

Ok so i had to replace my shocks; lowered => standard => back to lowered again and now obviously the geometry settings are all over the place. I've phoned around a few places this morning, most of which don't do geometry alignment, with the only one doing it saying they cannot do it on a lowered car because the specification they have got is for a standard suspension set up.

 

Does anyone on here know what the values should be? Its running on a 40mm drop front and rear.

 

Also is it easy for me to do myself? I'll get the tracking laser aligned but I've spent so much already (as is always the Corrado way) and £77 is a lot to fork out especially if they get the figures wrong. They said if I get the values then they can do it but they won't be liable if they are incorrect....

 

Any suggestions are appreciated

 

Jay

[RowanVW 0]

Hiya mate, 4 x axle stands, 2 pieces of bar and some string will allow you to set up accurate toe settings +/- 0.5mm, i prefer them to laser equipment

 

You will not be able to change your castor angles, it just relates to how far your suspension leans back like this \ you can only change it if you have adjustable top mounts.

 

A camber gauge is quite cheap, will tell you the exact angle of your wheels, but you must measure it off a machined solid part to get accurate results... ive never adjusted anything on my corrado yet, thats done last, but usually loosen a lock nut on the track rod for tracking and go anti or clockwise till you get what you want!

 

And manufacturers settings? what do you want the car for - driving fast? as a daily?

[eugopnosaj 0]

Thanks for your reply, well, I use the car as a daily but on open clear roads...well you know :lol: . Obviously I want the best handling that I can get as she bump steers like crazy at the moment.

 

I've read on here that toe in is the best for stability, what value would work best for that. I've replaced both track rod ends so they'll be easy enough to do its just the caster I'm a bit apprehensive about.

 

Sitting the car on axle stands will only be good though if the driveway is completely flat surely or will I be able to compensate for this using a camber gauge?

[PhatVR6 0]

Zero toe or slight toe out for better steering response. I'd only run 1° camber on the road, up to 4° on track.

 

And I would certainly recommend adjustable or eccentric top mounts and more castor if you are even thinking about track use.

[eugopnosaj 0]

Oh it wont be for track use, not yet anyway, not while its being used as a daily (or until I buy a VR lol). 1° positive sounds good to me and ill set it up for 0 toe as well. Thanks

 

I am interested in your material list RowanVW; '2 pieces of bar and some string', sounds like an interesting diy and I am intrigued to find out a bit more

[PhatVR6 0]

1 DEGREE NEGATIVE, NOT POSITIVE!

[eugopnosaj 0]

whoa indoor voice lol, I was hoping for a response as you didn't specify so I perceived it as positive because you didn't put - or + next to it :grin:

[leeeeshad 0]

Wheels in motion in welwyn garden city are supposed to be very good, I havent used them but they seem to do non standard stuff, could be worth a call.

[davidwort 0]

Ok so i had to replace my shocks; lowered => standard => back to lowered again and now obviously the geometry settings are all over the place. I've phoned around a few places this morning, most of which don't do geometry alignment, with the only one doing it saying they cannot do it on a lowered car because the specification they have got is for a standard suspension set up.

 

Does anyone on here know what the values should be? Its running on a 40mm drop front and rear.

 

Also is it easy for me to do myself? I'll get the tracking laser aligned but I've spent so much already (as is always the Corrado way) and £77 is a lot to fork out especially if they get the figures wrong. They said if I get the values then they can do it but they won't be liable if they are incorrect....

 

Any suggestions are appreciated

 

Jay

 

Jason, I can check the camber for you anytime, have a home made setup that gets it spot on (on my 40mm lowered valver).

If you want the toe and tracking checked and adjusted I'll ask my dad what they'd charge in Stony, they have a basic 4 wheel tester (well strictly 2 wheel as the corrado rear can't be adjusted) and providing your track rod adjusters aren't siezed it shouldn't be more than 30 mins labour I'd have thought.

I've done my valver on this many-a-time and it drives spot on after we've set it up.

 

David.

[RowanVW 0]

Hiya, well believe it or not, axle stands and string is used all the way up to F1, set the axle stands up outside the car, you need to bars with a suitable attachment such as two screws of the same width for your fishing twine... by setting each wheel exactly the same distance, front and back you create a stable reference points for your adjustments, then by measuring from the front of the wheel RIM, not the tyre and the back you get two measurements, the distance difference is your amount of toe. We used to do it all the time when i was on my motorsport placement and our boss was ex williams F1.

 

Works a treat ;)

 

remember a smaller measurement at the front means toe out in this case

[eugopnosaj 0]

leeeeshad, there are a couple of places near me, Kwikfit included but they all do it to standard values, i can provide any figures given to me on here but they wont provide a warranty on the work. Thanks for the suggestion though

 

 

Jason, I can check the camber for you anytime, have a home made setup that gets it spot on (on my 40mm lowered valver).

If you want the toe and tracking checked and adjusted I'll ask my dad what they'd charge in Stony, they have a basic 4 wheel tester (well strictly 2 wheel as the corrado rear can't be adjusted) and providing your track rod adjusters aren't siezed it shouldn't be more than 30 mins labour I'd have thought.

I've done my valver on this many-a-time and it drives spot on after we've set it up.

 

David.

 

Providing excellent service as usual David, this sounds perfect to me. The track rod adjusters aren't seized as I had to replace N/S track rod end for the MOT and O/S was an advisory so I replaced that too (although the nut section to clamp onto has seen better days but nothing a vice grip can't solve). When do you think I might be able to come and see you? Would love to come and see your 8v too :)

 

Hiya, well believe it or not, axle stands and string is used all the way up to F1, set the axle stands up outside the car, you need to bars with a suitable attachment such as two screws of the same width for your fishing twine... by setting each wheel exactly the same distance, front and back you create a stable reference points for your adjustments, then by measuring from the front of the wheel RIM, not the tyre and the back you get two measurements, the distance difference is your amount of toe. We used to do it all the time when i was on my motorsport placement and our boss was ex williams F1.

 

Works a treat ;)

 

remember a smaller measurement at the front means toe out in this case

 

Yeah I did a bit of researching after you posted and came up with a few similar situations. I think for piece of mind I'll go and see David and his father but I'll probably use this method further down the road and on my mini project

[davidwort 0]

checked with the old guy today, John Spademan Motors charge £25 for 4 wheel laser alignment and I can set the camber with you before you get that done.

welcome to pop over any time and see the old banger :) weekends prob best

 

oh, I've got all the correct geometry settings from the Bentley manual too, they're kicking about on the forum somewhere too I'm sure.

[eugopnosaj 0]

Brilliant thanks :) I'd like to get it done asap if that's alright. I usually finish work around 11 so I can always pop over during the week if you're free, if not then this weekend is fine :)

[davidwort 0]

Hiya, well believe it or not, axle stands and string is used all the way up to F1, set the axle stands up outside the car,

...

...

 

right, we had a go at this today and here's the proof :lol:

a little bit of GCSE trigonometry to work out the camber for the 17" wheels and then set to work on adjusting the camber

ETKA Corrado.pdfcamber_1.jpg[/attachment:1qkx1muh]

this was handy: http://easycalculation.com/trigonometry ... angles.php

so, armed with the info that we need the top rim of the wheel roughly 4 to 5mm further in than the bottom we set to with a spirit level and a couple of bolts to raise it clear of the tyre sidewall.

Bentley manual states 4cyl corrado 40minutes negative camber +/-10, so half a degree or just over.

stromlaufplan_gamma4.pdfP1010719.JPG[/attachment:1qkx1muh]

Corrado92.pdfP1010720.JPG[/attachment:1qkx1muh]

we started off with the top rim about 2.5cm in from the bottom, mega negative camber, must have been nearly 3 degrees at least :lol:

 

once the camber is about set then we attacked the toe (none of the three of us knew what we were doing :scratch: )

but with a little searching on the web for the above mentioned technique :salute: RowanVW :)

http://www.negative-camber.org/jam149/t ... nment.html

http://elantragtclub.tripod.com/elantra/id554.html

 

using 4 axle stands to run a piece of string down each side of the car at wheel centre level we set up a reference by making sure the front and back rim edge of both rear wheels was exactly 50mm

toe.jpg[/attachment:1qkx1muh]

 

then we measured the same distance on the front wheels

the values we got showed a lot of toe in, front wheel front rim measurement to string was about 13mm both sides our front wheels were like this: / \

passat climatronic wiring diags.pdfP1010721.JPG[/attachment:1qkx1muh]

climatronic wiring-Golf from May 01.pdfP1010722.JPG[/attachment:1qkx1muh]

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfP1010723.JPG[/attachment:1qkx1muh]

 

our initial measurements showed offside front wheel 29mm rear rim edge and 42mm front edge

nearside wheel 28.5mm and 37mm

with the bigger measurement at the front rim edge our wheels were pointing inwards, so we lengthened the track rod ends to get about 37mm all round

lastly we moved the steeing wheel round a few splines to make that central

 

we did get some pull to the left when driving but that was a problem with the nearside camber not quite right and another attempt at that got it nearer, double checking the toe again with the string just to be sure our camber tweak hadn't affected toe, it hadn't.

 

As the track rod is closer to the hub than the wheel rims we discovered that 8mm of movement on the track rod end gave about 21mm at the rim, so this helped us get the right movement on the ends to get our front wheels parallel.

 

Hopefully that should do the trick!

 

If nothing else it must have got the settings much closer to spec, in fact it's probably quite accurate.

Careful monitoring of the tyre inside and outside edges and pull left or right when driving should certainly show how good we got it. If both outside edges feather we know there is toe in, inside edges toe out.

[RW1 0]

If nothing else it must have got the settings much closer to spec, in fact it's probably quite accurate.

Careful monitoring of the tyre inside and outside edges and pull left or right when driving should certainly show how good we got it. If both outside edges feather we know there is toe in, inside edges toe out.

A little cautionary note..................

 

When I had my Koni's fitted by a certain Nottingham outfit whose Clearly & Rediculusly named, I prefer to forget. They handed the Corrado back to me and all appeared well with the geometry both driving locally and on the motorway until a few days later .......

 

The Corrado sat on the drive in the morning with the sun warming the left side of the car. At lunch time I drove off and did a trip which involved being on the motorway at 70 mph for the last 30 miles of 40. At the other end, a friend ask to see the front end suspension in detail. I turned out the steeering to the right. What I saw shocked me. A good tyre chewed to the carass fabric on the inside. I know it wasn't there the day before as I had cleaned the wheels off the car as part of the planned visit.

 

When it was check by geometry back home on an alignment machine, all that was wrong was the tracking was toeing out 8 minutes instead of 1 minute.

 

From what could be worked out, the morning sunshine that day had changed the grip balance between the two front tyres going up the motorway. The left front tyre had straightened up on its direction. Thus the right "cold" front tyre was dragged along pointing outwards, very rapidly wearing the inside tread block.

 

Another 10 miles that day and a blow out was enevitable at 70mph. Lucky escape!

 

I would recommend that tracking is checked on a proper tracking machine after doing the above, particularly if this method is used on a VR6 with so much power being applied through the running gear and tyres.

 

Camber is not so critical around what happened.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I use a home made protractor for camber and since above, initially set the tracking but get it re-checked on an alignment machine.

 

I use two instruments for camber.

 

1. To determine the level angle of the car across the width

 

climatronic wiring-Golf from May 01.pdf1 Camber Setting - Roof Level 1st Reading - 01.jpg[/attachment:26pdkpop]

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdf2 Camber Setting - Roof Level 1st Reading - 02.jpg[/attachment:26pdkpop]

2. To determine the uncorrected angle of the wheels.

 

7 Nearside Wheel 1st Adjust AFTER - 07.jpg[/attachment:26pdkpop]

By combining the angles of the car's "level" setting and the angles of each wheel, the true cambers can be determined.

(The "instruments" are pre-calibrated on known vertical & horizontal surfaces before use.)

 

.

[davidwort 0]

Get your point, we were just impressed with ourselves for learning something new, which seemed so obvious after we'd done it.

Today I measured up my valver (which was set up on laser 4 wheel alignment kit) and our technique seemed to give the right measurements on that.

I then did the same on my 8v (which I know is toeing in like mad after doing loads of front end work) and not surprisingly found the leading edge/rim of the front wheels was far further in from the string.

Then set about the track rod on the drivers side to adjust things up, miscalculated at first as Jason had 17" wheels and mine are 15" :roll: but a couple of gos later I have it down to 1mm out, or rather 1mm toeing in, best I could get without spending all night in the garage too, so we shall see on Tuesday because I'm popping into the garage and measuring it up on the MOT ramp with the laser alignment gear, will be interesting to see how far out I am :)

[RW1 0]

I find it quite fun using Heath Robinson tools only to go down the road and see similar readings appear on laser technology tools which cost. They were utterly amazed the first time when they saw the homemade tools in the boot.

 

Mine are out of the B&Q parts bins, aka decking brackets and other bits & bobs plus the good old friend... 2 x1.

 

Its piece of mind at the end of the day.

 

How do you take account of the garage floor not being level?

 

.

[dragon green 4]

Slightly of topic,but i weighed a car with three bathroom scales !

Three together with a small board on top,i made wooden cradles so the other wheels all sat level.Then went around and weighed each wheel.

Three scales from Lidl £12

[davidwort 0]

Slightly of topic,but i weighed a car with three bathroom scales !

Three together with a small board on top,i made wooden cradles so the other wheels all sat level.Then went around and weighed each wheel.

Three scales from Lidl £12

(Corrado is up to 1200Kg or so) Why am I not surprised Lidl customers might need scales that go up to 400Kg each :lol:

[Toad 0]

I assume he weighed each wheel in turn?

[RW1 0]

But why weigh in the first place?

 

.

[Toad 0]

I always weigh my car when I'm going over the weighbridge in the depot I pick fuel up. I love stuff like that.

[Jim 2]

What does the VR weigh mate when it's full of fuel and has a driver in it?

[nemesis360 0]

What does the VR weigh mate when it's full of fuel and has a driver in it?

 

It depends how many pies the driver has had! :lol:

[boost monkey 0]

I find it quite fun using Heath Robinson tools only to go down the road and see similar readings appear on laser technology tools which cost. They were utterly amazed the first time when they saw the homemade tools in the boot.

 

Mine are out of the B&Q parts bins, aka decking brackets and other bits & bobs plus the good old friend... 2 x1.

 

Its piece of mind at the end of the day.

 

How do you take account of the garage floor not being level?

 

.

 

You'd be surprised how many race teams still use poles and bits of fishing line to check the alignment! The old lambo team I worked for did it this way :D