urgent overheating query.. Possible causes?

[P3rks 11]

the blocks can crack as they are cast. However, I would not really expect it to happen and I'm not sure if you would see the same problems you are having. fingers crossed its the gasket and a quick fix

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I hope so too!

 

Blimey - as someone has already said I would check the fan wiring to check it's correct and also suspect any non genuine parts but sounds like it's HG issue or similar as you say... I assume when you refilled you were using the correct 40% ish ratio of G12++ to water? Running just water will obviously cause issues.

 

Running without a stat won't have helped at all - fueling must have been way off and I doubt the fan was kicking in as it should even if the switch was working fine - this has probably slow-cooked the engine taking the heater matrix with it :(

 

Yeah, I refilled the first time using G12 coolant, used 1.5ltr coolant the rest water, after that I stopped wasting coolant.

 

I've checked the wiring and the fan 100% kicks in. It's only a single speed, slimline fan and it's performance is negotiable.

 

I'm wondering whether the radiator reaches maximum efficiency and the hot air coming out of the FMIC then going over the radiator is causing it to over heat? Or if the Samco hoses are causing excess pressure etc?

 

Thing is, if it was the radiator would it have lasted 100 miles on the motorway when I first got the car? Probably not? The fan shouldn't be in use when the car is moving due to the air flow, and it over heated whilst on the move.

 

Also, the cooling system is under the most pressure on idle and it never over heats when the car is first started. Only when driving or after driving then sat on idle, which would suggest either excess pressure in the coolant from a compression leak; or excess heat from boost which cause the cooling to loose it's efficiency and the temperature just rises and rises until it boils.

 

How hot should a G60 run oil and water temp wise?

Edited July 11, 2011 by P3rks

[Supercharged 2]

So that fan - if it's only single speed then out of the 3 wires, 2 should be connected together so it runs max whenever it's on - it;s blowing the right way I assume also?

 

Water on all VW's should sit at 90c (half way), Oil is meant to be roughly 100c but G60's do run very hot so 110 on normal running is not unusual.

[Slimg60 0]

Without an oil cooler I'd say 100-115 mark from what I can remember. Water should be 90.

The FMIC shouldnt make a difference, it would only effect it if it was clogged up and not letting air pass through. G60 boost isnt the hottest around so the IC should be hot enough to effect the rad.

[P3rks 11]

So that fan - if it's only single speed then out of the 3 wires, 2 should be connected together so it runs max whenever it's on - it;s blowing the right way I assume also?

 

Water on all VW's should sit at 90c (half way), Oil is meant to be roughly 100c but G60's do run very hot so 110 on normal running is not unusual.

 

Well, the fan only has two wires coming from it. I have tried both polarities with little difference. But like I say, I had the car idling from cold for about 30 mins, fan kicked in and kept the water temp just above 90c and oil about 110c. Surely if the fan was to blame it would have overheated on idle from cold after 30 mins?

 

Sorry about the poor photo's but you can see the size of it here:

 

 

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------

 

Without an oil cooler I'd say 100-115 mark from what I can remember. Water should be 90.

The FMIC shouldnt make a difference, it would only effect it if it was clogged up and not letting air pass through. G60 boost isnt the hottest around so the IC should be hot enough to effect the rad.

 

I'm going to be ordering an Mocal oil cooler in the next few days, this will obviously lower the oil temp and take the strain off the cooling system also. I just need to decide whether to remove the original oil cooler completely or run the Mocal in conjunction with the original.

 

Can any one recommend me what's best to do with the Mocal oil cooler and original oil cooler? number of rows to have etc?

[dannyboy 0]

Do remember that the leaking head will up the pressure in the coolant system alone+heat but then the fan should be on all the time trying to cool the rad.

 

Does the fan turn on and stay on?

or does it cut out after minute or so?

[Rob_B 0]

get a 13 row cooler, it will be plenty big enough. I ditched the standard cooler as they fail anyway. I just run a mocal cooler, G60 rad, rallye intercooler and slim line fan with no problems what so ever. my oil temp hardly ever reaches 100 and the water sits at 90 all day.

[P3rks 11]

Do remember that the leaking head will up the pressure in the coolant system alone+heat but then the fan should be on all the time trying to cool the rad.

 

Does the fan turn on and stay on?

or does it cut out after minute or so?

 

That's a good question. Iirc, the fan stays on for a good few minutes, thing is I've always been driving it when the car over heats so I can't tell you when the fan cuts in. On idle from cold the fan turns on for 30 seconds then stops. Then a few mins later turns on for 30 secs then stops on goes on like this.

 

Every time the car's over heated I've stopped the engine, so surely the fan will only stay on until the water in the radiator has cooled becuase no water is circulating and the switch is in the rad?

 

get a 13 row cooler, it will be plenty big enough. I ditched the standard cooler as they fail anyway. I just run a mocal cooler, G60 rad, rallye intercooler and slim line fan with no problems what so ever. my oil temp hardly ever reaches 100 and the water sits at 90 all day.

 

That's my plan, what do I do with the original oil cooler pipes and what about fitting the sandwhich plate; won't the original spline be too long for the new plate?

Edited July 11, 2011 by P3rks

[Supercharged 2]

 

That's my plan, what do I do with the original oil cooler pipes and what about fitting the sandwhich plate; won't the original spline be too long for the new plate?

 

All you need are 2 water pipes from a MK1 GTi (£20 from VW / TPS) and a shorter oil filter thread from the same car - sorted!

[P3rks 11]

All you need are 2 water pipes from a MK1 GTi (£20 from VW / TPS) and a shorter oil filter thread from the same car - sorted!

 

nice one!

 

I'll have a word with TPS tomorrow when I pick up the expansion tank. Any idea where to buy the cooler kit from? I know G-Werks used to sell the full kit but i think they discontinued it.

[davidwort 0]

So what happened with the head?, from reading all of this it certainly looks like the coolant system is being pressurised by an engine cylinder leak.

bear in mind that at a steady drive the engine will only be developing about 30-40 bhp, so unless you are towing a caravan or the ambient temp is 50 degrees C then airflow should be plenty to keep the engine cool.

You seem to have already eliminated everything else, new rad, exp tank cap etc...

[P3rks 11]

So what happened with the head?, from reading all of this it certainly looks like the coolant system is being pressurised by an engine cylinder leak.

bear in mind that at a steady drive the engine will only be developing about 30-40 bhp, so unless you are towing a caravan or the ambient temp is 50 degrees C then airflow should be plenty to keep the engine cool.

You seem to have already eliminated everything else, new rad, exp tank cap etc...

 

I did a sniff test and it failed (Co2 gasses in the coolant). I stripped the head down and it's currently getting pressure tested as we speak. I'm awaiting the phone call, they did say it would be around lunch time, so any minute now. Eeeeek!

 

---------- Post added at 01:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

 

Well... Bad news..

 

One of the coolant journals is leaking pressure near the surface (headgasket side). Apparently it's only a hairline crack. I'm assuming that the head gets hot, the crack expands and the temp suddenly rises. Balls. Anyone got a spare G60 head knocking about?

[dannyboy 0]

Sorry to hear mate,bit of a bummer.

 

Ive got a head but i think it would cost abit to ship to the uk from germany.see if any are on fleabay?

Dont let it put you off owning the motor,theyre great fun once theyre working! when that happens

[P3rks 11]

Sorry to hear mate,bit of a bummer.

 

Ive got a head but i think it would cost abit to ship to the uk from germany.see if any are on fleabay?

Dont let it put you off owning the motor,theyre great fun once theyre working! when that happens

 

Thanks for the offer matey. But Baz has a spare engine he's sending me up. We just need to work out logistics of getting it from Bristol the Sheffield and cheap as possible!

 

I'm a little put off as you'd imagine, but I know when it's running properly I'll have a smile on my face!

[Rob_B 0]

Thats good that he is sorting that out for you. Like it has been said, you will enjoy it when it's all hunky dorey, just a rough start to it!

[P3rks 11]

Thats good that he is sorting that out for you. Like it has been said, you will enjoy it when it's all hunky dorey, just a rough start to it!

 

He's been very good, he;s making all this that little bit better :thumbleft:

[Toohottotrot 10]

Hi, I've been reading this thread and can imagine how you must feel, the only thing to do is press on and get the car sorted, then put this s**t behind you! The reason I comment is that I live in Malvern, just up from Bristol. On Sunday I'm going to Nottingham, just down from Sheffield.......If it's just the head you need and someone wants to drop it off to me it can go in my car, and you could collect from Nottingham? Not Ideal as it's not till sunday but the main part of the journey. If you get stuck and this offer is any good give me a shout, and at least you know the head will be handled carefully without the need to crate it.

Thanks for the offer matey. But Baz has a spare engine he's sending me up. We just need to work out logistics of getting it from Bristol the Sheffield and cheap as possible!

 

I'm a little put off as you'd imagine, but I know when it's running properly I'll have a smile on my face!

[P3rks 11]

Hi, I've been reading this thread and can imagine how you must feel, the only thing to do is press on and get the car sorted, then put this s**t behind you! The reason I comment is that I live in Malvern, just up from Bristol. On Sunday I'm going to Nottingham, just down from Sheffield.......If it's just the head you need and someone wants to drop it off to me it can go in my car, and you could collect from Nottingham? Not Ideal as it's not till sunday but the main part of the journey. If you get stuck and this offer is any good give me a shout, and at least you know the head will be handled carefully without the need to crate it.

 

Aww, thanks a lot buddy.. It's a full engine, well sump, block, head, cam cover and some brackets so it's a bit hefty. If push comes to shove we can use paisley freight or similar. But I'll keep you in mind!

[Toohottotrot 10]

No worries, full engine is a bit much in a Lupo gti boot! But if you are real stuck and can manage with just the head you know where I am. :)

[P3rks 11]

No worries, full engine is a bit much in a Lupo gti boot! But if you are real stuck and can manage with just the head you know where I am. :)

 

Yeah, it's a bit big isn't it!? :grin:

 

I'll keep you updated, I think I'm going for the full engine as i can just slot it straight in rather than messing about with gaskets etc. Just to get it back on the road and I'll use my current bottom end for a rebuild.. hmmm what's that. 16v G60? I can but dream.. :shades:

[boost monkey 0]

Maybe you should change your user name to EnthusiastPwned?

[P3rks 11]

Maybe you should change your user name to EnthusiastPwned?

 

Thanks for your constructive input. :iamwithstupid:

[boost monkey 0]

I was constructive on page 1, and felt I had to make up for it :lol:

[P3rks 11]

Update time...

 

I've just inspected the bottom end, and well, it seems fine, no cracks or major problems as far as I can see.. Although, I noticed something in one of the small water ways.. Hmmm.. Looks like something was in it.. I tried getting at it with a magnet, which didn't seem to work so a really thin pair of long nose pliars got it out. Looks to be some type of plastic or stone, it's non-mettalic anyway.

 

I wonder if it's a part of the heater matrix flange which broke up? Or part of an old flange (as the head flanges have been re-newed recently from the looks of things) or even from the old water pump? I immediatley removed the current water pump and it has metal blades which are all intact. Idea's? From the looks of things it's gone in from the top and it's closest water way to the side flange on the head; which would indicate its from the heater matrix return feed (which is the flange which broke by the way).

 

Would this little blockage cause the overheating I was experiencing? Could it have blocked water from that part of the head causing the crack?

 

Anyway, I'll let the pictures do the talking..

 

[bristolbaron 10]

Odd.. Can't think that the head flange was replaced, but check through the receipts..

Do you still have the matrix flange to match it up to?

I can't see it being the cause of the issue, but guess it can't of helped.

 

Should be able to get you the tracking ref for the engine tomorrow, but being delivery day it'll prob be with you before I get it!

 

Speak soon

 

Baz

[P3rks 11]

Odd.. Can't think that the head flange was replaced, but check through the receipts..

Do you still have the matrix flange to match it up to?

I can't see it being the cause of the issue, but guess it can't of helped.

 

Should be able to get you the tracking ref for the engine tomorrow, but being delivery day it'll prob be with you before I get it!

 

Speak soon

 

Baz

 

Cheers Baz,

 

Not looked through the receipts, but the flanges look far too good to be original. The matrix flange literally shattered when I removed the water pipe.

Whether it's recent or been sat there a while, who knows?

 

I think tomorrow I might try and get some high pressure water or air down all the channels, just in case there is more.

 

It could explain why the car drove for 1hr, but the other times for 10 mims. Possibly the plastic Floated around the system until it got caught, then it blocked the system causing a pressure rise, then when turned off the particle floated around again. Just a thought?

 

Anyway, the car should be up and running by the weekend; well, if all my parts arrive in time. :)

Edited July 19, 2011 by P3rks
iPhone spelling fail