Please tell me alot of you were bothered by the Osborne speech

[corrado_sunderland 0]

Working classes give up your rights for the greater good,no redundancy packages or dismimssal rights,but well still get 80k a year pensions and special treatment over you scum of course.......who the **** are you kidding you tory ****, theyll have us in 1900 saw mill style working conditions at this rate.

 

I feel so let down by my generation its unreal. Am i one of the only intelligent ones out there who sees through these scum bags and what they are trying to achieve.

[davidwort 0]

Could be worse, at least you don't live in Greece or Spain, I'm sure then sun loses it's appeal when you are eating out of bins.

[Portent 0]

I'm normally a supporter of the conservatives... but even I though that was a facepalm suggestion. It's totally nuts.

 

To be honest I've just about given up with supporting any party now. They are all in it for themselves and most of them are simply career politicians.

[MarkFoster 0]

The Tories haven't changes since the 80s; self serving, bigoted @rseholes who snuck back into power through a combination of lying to the generation who don't remember the mayhem they caused last time they were in power, and taking advantage of the biblically naive Lib Dems. Unbelievable!

 

Still, at least they won't get a second term.

[corrado_sunderland 0]

Could be worse, at least you don't live in Greece or Spain, I'm sure then sun loses it's appeal when you are eating out of bins.

 

I know it could be worse but people are starving here too do you not realise? in the northeast people are going days without food too and relying on food parcels, plus no matter how bad it gets the working class is always targetted. France for example last week said the rich will pay more tax now to help keep the country afloat,over here they keep there cushy numbers and tax dodges and we get hit over and over at the bottom because nobody speaks up anymore.My friend lives in france and said its simple "english people are spineless and the french hassle their government until the right thing for the people is done" Sadly it is true in my generation with a mix of also people with such low intelligence all they care about is xfactor and celebs.

 

---------- Post added 10th October 2012 at 12:09 AM ---------- Previous post was 9th October 2012 at 11:59 PM ----------

 

The Tories haven't changes since the 80s; self serving, bigoted @rseholes who snuck back into power through a combination of lying to the generation who don't remember the mayhem they caused last time they were in power, and taking advantage of the biblically naive Lib Dems. Unbelievable!

 

Still, at least they won't get a second term.

 

That is another very valid point my friend,they started all this mess and although labour made it worse,they started the ball rolling and im amazed that people are so dense not to relate back to this over and over, the leader of the ukip party stated last time he was on question time he would have a revolution if he got his way he was so fed up and its becoming more and more so relevant as all the parties have lost their way.Labour is the only vote option again sadly too as itll leave a gap for another coalition nightmare otherwise.

[Portent 0]

I can't face another labour government either.

 

There is no viable choice now.

 

Might have to vote UKIP next time but that's a wasted vote really.

[VR6 0]

I live offshore, where we have our own (useless) Government, so I couldn't give a crap! The UK is a farce in almost everything it does. Think I would rather move to China, at least they have a plan and stick to it.

[BILLCOR 1]

I hate all poluticians, every last one of them and yes I know the spelling is incorrect :censored:

[davidwort 0]

... Think I would rather move to China, at least they have a plan and stick to it.

 

the Corrado forum would have been shut down by officials long ago and we'd be forced labour in coal mines or Foxconn or something...

[Yandards 0]

and the alternative is to put some other nobbers in who continued to dig the hole in the first place? We would be in the same position in Greece and Spain by now if Labour were still in power so you would even worse off.

 

Providing the French as an example of decent politics is just mental, home of the country that doesn't contribute to the EU because they invented it FFS, refusing to abide by any court decision if they didn't want to, home of the head of the IMF who was bent as a nine bob note etc etc etc.

 

Whilst I agree that shareholder workers is not a great idea at all for a lot of folks it does work very well in John Lewis' case.

 

As for welfare reform it never goes far enough, we should do what they do in New Zeland and instead of money you get clothing and food vouchers - you then don't get to buy Sky, internets, a mobile etc on the taxpayer..

 

I hate all politicians equally but Ed Ball's solution to the current problem is stupid, fix a lack of growth and cash by borrowing more money that we can't afford to pay the interest on right now.

 

I think we should have Boris in charge, if only for the shets and giggles that he would cause.

[Jim 1]

It's a difficult one. In principle I believe with the conservative approach here - labour got us into the mess by overspending and I don't believe spending even more is going to get us out of it. I think societally we need to re-adjust our approach to money, and consumerism in general as clearly it doesn't work the way it is. Tightening our belts and paying off our debts is the best way. However it's easy to say that whilst you still have a job, and aren't the one feeling the pinch. It is hard to see people suffering on low salaries, or losing their jobs entirely. I earn a good wage, I live by myself and I live 5 minutes from work yet I'm astonished at how quickly my money runs out each month. I can't imagine how tough it must be for low income families, with kids, and the parents having to commute long distances to their jobs - it must be a very difficult financial juggling act.

 

To be honest though whilst I'm resentful at the government for this situation, I do remain most resentful at the financial services. I know you can easily side with the banks and say that they offered loans to people who were irresponsible, etc etc - but ultimately they took a great big dump on our economy for their own benefit. The banking system is what needs the biggest overhaul but we're held to ransom by them.. the governments are all too afraid to touch them. It's a ridiculous situation.

[Rob_B 0]

I support the current governments approach to the situation. I don't believe that by borrowing more to invest in the economy that we will then spend more as consumers to pay the money back.

I also don't believe that the richest should be hammered with tax because they earn a lot.

Oh well, times are tough and are going to get tougher I think. Not a lot we can do apart from weather the storm in my opinion.

[corrado_sunderland 0]

I support the current governments approach to the situation. I don't believe that by borrowing more to invest in the economy that we will then spend more as consumers to pay the money back.

I also don't believe that the richest should be hammered with tax because they earn a lot.

Oh well, times are tough and are going to get tougher I think. Not a lot we can do apart from weather the storm in my opinion.

 

So your telling me people who dodge tax left right and centre and earn millions with paypackets totally overstretched by the % system of increase that has distanced them from working class since in began in the 60s shouldnt help the poor in a fair society.....glad your not in power.This is all relative to the banker bonuses etc, back 30 years ago a lad in ther pit got £20 a week his manager £25 and so on upwards until the runner of the full plant earned no more than 5 times his shop floor lads.Since the expedential increase system came in it has created enormous distance in pay as the high end pays has went up and up and lower class has not,so alot of them are in far more comfortable positions that us and should pay a eqivalanet level of tax on there pay as we do....but they do not they fiddle it left right and centre.I worked for Barclays i know how the *******s work,footy players pay peanuts in tax for example as they declare themselves as a corporate entity.This for individual needs to stop as its is not right.

 

And i hate to burst everyones misconception but the current government has borrowed more than labour did,they are just talking **** to polish the turd,if ya wanna get to the bottom of debt blame the jews who own banks for creating the fractal system for their own greed.

 

Do people not see yet,all this debate were having now is things we should be heckling the goverment with so we get them to work for us,thevtorues are *******s for the rich,labour has lost its way and needs a severe kick up the arse and warning to sort themselves out and ukip needs time to grow before votes are large enough to threaten the main 2

Edited October 10, 2012 by corrado_sunderland

[Wendy 0]

There was an interesting programme on TV last night, about employing people into older age, verus giving the young folk jobs.

 

as much as some of the older ones struggled physically, they never gave up.

The young - some turned up late to work, most did not turn up the second day and also did not have the coutesy to ring in to state as such.

 

I too do not believe in penalising the richest people them often being the ones who help themselves.

 

I do not wish anyone to be without the basics, but then I am personally stunned about the sheer value of handouts we as a country give - seems to me to those most unwilling to assist themselves.

 

Whilst at it - I would stop all Long Term Sick on Full Pay - which again from my understanding is what happens in most of the Civil Service - SchoolTeachers, Social Services, Police etc

Being in the real world of Private Business - this is just not viable.

 

Of course we cannot tar everyone with the same brush - Media being the biggest culprit here

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I think societally we need to re-adjust our approach to money, and consumerism in general as clearly it doesn't work the way it is. Tightening our belts and paying off our debts is the best way.

 

Yep. It's all about buckling down, keeping your nose clean and surviving these days. If you have limited income, surviving means paying your bills, paying your taxes and eating. It doesn't mean smoking, getting drunk, sky TV, posh clothes and cars and other low priority frivolities.

 

I've seen the word 'fair' mentioned. But what is 'fair'? When it boils down to it, it's a dog eat dog world. Every man for himself. It's always been this way. It's only because of the recent exposure into politics and top earners by the media that everyone is now blowing things out of proportion and want 'somebody' to make everything better by waving some financial magic wand where everyone is better off. It ain't gonna happen. Not ever. I'm sorry, but 'fair' in my book is the people who work hard to achieve their status in life. Flunking school and dossing about sponging off the state is most definitely not fair.

 

If there is no work where you live, it's quite simple really. Get qualified and get moving to where there is work. I'm sick of this country's attitude on hand outs and not willing to fix their lack of income themselves by honest to god grafting.

[Tempest 0]

Keynes or Hayek or even Marx? Anyone watch the rather good 3-piece series on these totally different economist's approaches to capitalism, presented by Stephanie Flanders on the Beeb recently? Still did not offer any hardcore solutions as to which of the 3 would work best, because the mess we're currently in is too diverse as to solve with just one solution.

 

Comparing Germany to the UK, however, I do have to observe that somehow although Thatcher was needed in the 80s to clean up the totally immoral trade unions, she definitely went way too far (consumer credit to keep the economy going being one of the most fatal decisions, as it is the root of the current problem: huge debts amongst private households; over-reliance on the city of London financial sector whilst somehow managing to kill off any other industry sector, which is where Germany is now scoring very strongly, e.g. and i.e. engineering).

 

As a result of Britain having placed all its eggs in the one basket, Britain is now very vulnerable, as opposed to Germany, which ahs mroe legs to stand on. Germany was aware of this, and started quickly paving the way into China for its own industry.

 

The other problem that was mentioned, the growing salary divide, can, however, be observed all over Europe and globally, I suppose. Yes, that is definitely something I also detest, because indeed the olden days of where a factory top boss at best earned 25 times the salary of the simple assembly line worker was far easier to sallow by said simple assembly line worker than the status quo.

 

This fact I hope (very controversial statement coming here) will lead to war at one day, the question is when. The problem is that the powers that be have no interest in preventing the salary divide to widen, because they are the main beneficiaries. The do realise that ultimately this will lead to civil unrest, which would explain why legisaltors are clamping down more and more on basic rights in a feeble attempt to prevent the inevitable from happening, question is just when will the situation explode?

 

As long as the masses still have Eastenders, mobile phones, tablets and other brain dead material, it keeps them quiet. Would be why industry needs to and indeed does invent new useless crap to flog to the masses who will then be so pre-occupied with the latest tat, that they forget the real issues of life.

 

Tempest

[corrado_sunderland 0]

There was an interesting programme on TV last night, about employing people into older age, verus giving the young folk jobs.

 

as much as some of the older ones struggled physically, they never gave up.

The young - some turned up late to work, most did not turn up the second day and also did not have the coutesy to ring in to state as such.

 

I too do not believe in penalising the richest people them often being the ones who help themselves.

 

 

I do not wish anyone to be without the basics, but then I am personally stunned about the sheer value of handouts we as a country give - seems to me to those most unwilling to assist themselves.

 

Whilst at it - I would stop all Long Term Sick on Full Pay - which again from my understanding is what happens in most of the Civil Service - SchoolTeachers, Social Services, Police etc

Being in the real world of Private Business - this is just not viable.

 

Of course we cannot tar everyone with the same brush - Media being the biggest culprit here

 

you seem to have a vast lack of understanding into how much more these people earn and where its is sourced from,its a wonderful peasant mentality i must say. I earn 45k a year and 20% of my pay is tax,however when you get into he realms of people earning millions, they pay nearer 5-10% in tax through loop holes and fiddles,now if people are struggling for food and to live yet people earning salaries far greater than they deserve (like bankers etc) are dodging tax and not contributing as much to society and you think thats ok,your a retard.

 

Some people as sad as it seems are ****ing stupid and lack the basic inteliegnce as they school system failed them and there parents before that,its the mess we have through politicians cutting back,hey there happy they all went to eton. People like this have no work anymore because they cant even live on the pay of crappy job they are capables of doing so they stick to benifits x that by generations and you have serious issues like we do.All the crappy jobs are no taken by the likes of poles who will take the poor pay and 6 will share a house. Yes you could say the lazy buggers should work the crappy job however if they cant even afford to live of the wage,society has gone back in the past 40 years. A happy toilet cleaner could afford to live at least in days gone by and now they can not. This is all through the failure of our political system.

 

This government want all benefits stopped,my father is disabled and could well loose his,now all you people who think your very smart and keep realing off about how people sponge and this and that the fact of the matter is in matters like this,WORKING CLASS MUST STICK TOGETHER.Your pretend understanding of the wealthy hidden agenda splits the whole chain and keeps everyone apart and weak.

 

Alot of people get hyped up by daft things like look at all therse spongers the politicaians say,if we removed all immigrants for example who have no trade or skill like oz do it wouldnt be an issue,wed be fine.We always kept eachother going and an overinfluctuated society of useless foreigners created the strain but we can prevale.

 

So to summarise moaning about benefits just because you work BAD because theylll take them away and when you need them youll realise just how much of a dumb selfish **** you were and a pawn all the same,bigger issues are at hand that they do not want you to moan about. Sticking together,fighting the ever growing distance between wealth and poor GOOD as it will ultimately put us back on track to creating a good level of education for working class,thus more work,a sensible more refined pay struture to prevent people becoming in seats of power as they are now and a better world.

 

---------- Post added at 1:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------

 

Keynes or Hayek or even Marx? Anyone watch the rather good 3-piece series on these totally different economist's approaches to capitalism, presented by Stephanie Flanders on the Beeb recently? Still did not offer any hardcore solutions as to which of the 3 would work best, because the mess we're currently in is too diverse as to solve with just one solution.

 

Comparing Germany to the UK, however, I do have to observe that somehow although Thatcher was needed in the 80s to clean up the totally immoral trade unions, she definitely went way too far (consumer credit to keep the economy going being one of the most fatal decisions, as it is the root of the current problem: huge debts amongst private households; over-reliance on the city of London financial sector whilst somehow managing to kill off any other industry sector, which is where Germany is now scoring very strongly, e.g. and i.e. engineering).

 

As a result of Britain having placed all its eggs in the one basket, Britain is now very vulnerable, as opposed to Germany, which ahs mroe legs to stand on. Germany was aware of this, and started quickly paving the way into China for its own industry.

 

The other problem that was mentioned, the growing salary divide, can, however, be observed all over Europe and globally, I suppose. Yes, that is definitely something I also detest, because indeed the olden days of where a factory top boss at best earned 25 times the salary of the simple assembly line worker was far easier to sallow by said simple assembly line worker than the status quo.

 

This fact I hope (very controversial statement coming here) will lead to war at one day, the question is when. The problem is that the powers that be have no interest in preventing the salary divide to widen, because they are the main beneficiaries. The do realise that ultimately this will lead to civil unrest, which would explain why legisaltors are clamping down more and more on basic rights in a feeble attempt to prevent the inevitable from happening, question is just when will the situation explode?

 

As long as the masses still have Eastenders, mobile phones, tablets and other brain dead material, it keeps them quiet. Would be why industry needs to and indeed does invent new useless crap to flog to the masses who will then be so pre-occupied with the latest tat, that they forget the real issues of life.

 

Tempest

 

Very true except for one thing bud,thatcher was never needed,people should of stopped the over striking,80% of it was relevant as i grew up in a pit village watching people die and strikes over safety etc, but i know some places struck over nothing and to allow a bitch and that canadian ******* along with murdock to bring the whole lot down was a catastrophic failure now as we have no rights at all and all unions are powerless ive scene.People just needed to say howay this is too far keep the right thing going,it ended a whole industry and i work in the scraps of whats left now

[jamiehamy 0]

I live in a deprived area (apparently). I never completed Uni and started off earning 8k in a car showroom. Now working as an analyst for a bank (yes - a bank!) 9 years later. I have no formal qualifications apart from school.

 

Never had a handout from the state, nor do I want one as such. I do want my hard earned money (tax) being spent on those that NEED it, not those that know how to get it. In that respect, the benefits reform is long overdue, but being f***ed up by ATOS. The Welfare state is brilliant, but being abused. They've got to start somewhere.

 

You make your own future, that's true no matter who you are or where you live.

 

(BTW, I do want to add a disclaimer 'cos I feel bad - despite being a technically deprived area with few job opportunities and high unemployment/benefit dependency, Gourock (and Inverclyde) is a lovely place, stunning views and friendly people!, so don't be put off visiting!)

[Rob_B 0]

Mr Sunderland, I appreciate your thoughts but I don't appreciate your insults towards others who don't share your views. We can all discuss this without resorting to name calling or shouting.

Anyway, with regards to your comment about my view on the tax system, I am not in favour of people being able to exploit tax loopholes to pay minimal tax. I am in favour of not sticking 75-80% (for example) income tax on the top earners. 45% is fine as long as they actually pay that. Avoiding tax is not acceptable. Just because you have enough to pay a smart accountant, you shouldn't be aloud to do it.

I do not think that life is fair and I do not think that we are all entitled to the same standard of life. I don't want to see people stave, but I also don't want to see aspirational people be held back and hammered by the tax system.

I'm glad I'm not running the show, it's a thankless task.

[guildmage 11]

Mr Sunderland, I appreciate your thoughts but I don't appreciate your insults towards others who don't share your views.

Funny I thought exactly the same.

[aide 0]

There's only one answer. Sunderland for PM.

 

Lets see how you prioritise competing needs and stay in power long enough to see them implemented.

[tentonhammer 10]

I've seen the word 'fair' mentioned. But what is 'fair'? When it boils down to it, it's a dog eat dog world.

 

You know.

 

I tend not to enter into political debate because really let’s face it, we’ll never be able to sway the minds or opinions of overweight, out of date, upper class politicians that quite frankly all drink from the same toilet in my opinion.

 

However, I do tend to think that we all need reminding from time to time, the importance of good old fashioned hard graft – You don’t get something for nothing after all. If you're complaining that the system isn't fair then you're sitting on your ar*e for too long with way too much time on your hands IMO. The ones who succeed don't complain, they take the bull by the horns and change things, adapting along the way, they see things through to completion accepting changes they have no control over and using them to their advantage. Unfortunately it seems the common response to anything these days is to have a winge about whatever decision is made in government (good or bad) we are British after all! There's heaps of stuff I don't agree with but the reality of it is - You have to learn to adapt.

 

For example, if you're on sh*t money and are struggling to pay the rent (as I'm sure most of us are), instead of moaning about it - change your f*cking job, get educated, cut back on luxury items, move to a different part of the world if you have to. The government makes it far too easy for Billy No Bucks to walk into a Job Centre and sign on as if they were picking up their Nan's prescription. Graft your ar*e off for years and pay your taxes and then yes, benefits should be made available to you, but giving money away for free? What a load of bullsh*t. Spongers like this are no better than a beggar expecting money to fall into their laps.

 

---------- Post added at 2:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 2:07 PM ----------

 

I do not think that life is fair and I do not think that we are all entitled to the same standard of life. I don't want to see people starve, but I also don't want to see aspirational people be held back and hammered by the tax system.

 

Agreed.

[Jim 1]

you seem to have a vast lack of understanding into how much more these people earn and where its is sourced from,its a wonderful peasant mentality i must say.

 

You need to stop making such assumptions. If you knew the work that Wendy does then you'd realise she knows a considerable amount about the subject of finance!

Edited October 10, 2012 by Jim

[Wendy 0]

you seem to have a vast lack of understanding into how much more these people earn and where its is sourced from,its a wonderful peasant mentality i must say. I earn 45k a year and 20% of my pay is tax,however when you get into he realms of people earning millions, they pay nearer 5-10% in tax through loop holes and fiddles,now if people are struggling for food and to live yet people earning salaries far greater than they deserve (like bankers etc) are dodging tax and not contributing as much to society and you think thats ok,your a retard.

 

Thank you Jim and others who also find corrado_sunderland insulting and have endeavered to support my freedom to put forward my views - I lost interest in anything he had to say - after this above - He does not know the Rate of Tax he pays !! :-)

 

I do not need to go into a battle or get stressed by the comments he has made at me. AS as kindly been put by others, I may just know a great deal more on the subjects of finance - both higher end and bottom end and have my own views, which I am intitled to have, some of these not putting everyone of either higher or lower income into the same bracket.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Wendy

[Kevin Bacon 5]

However, I do tend to think that we all need reminding from time to time, the importance of good old fashioned hard graft – You don’t get something for nothing after all. If you're complaining that the system isn't fair then you're sitting on your ar*e for too long with way too much time on your hands IMO. The ones who succeed don't complain, they take the bull by the horns and change things, adapting along the way, they see things through to completion accepting changes they have no control over and using them to their advantage. Unfortunately it seems the common response to anything these days is to have a winge about whatever decision is made in government (good or bad) we are British after all! There's heaps of stuff I don't agree with but the reality of it is - You have to learn to adapt.

 

For example, if you're on sh*t money and are struggling to pay the rent (as I'm sure most of us are), instead of moaning about it - change your f*cking job, get educated, cut back on luxury items, move to a different part of the world if you have to. The government makes it far too easy for Billy No Bucks to walk into a Job Centre and sign on as if they were picking up their Nan's prescription. Graft your ar*e off for years and pay your taxes and then yes, benefits should be made available to you, but giving money away for free? What a load of bullsh*t. Spongers like this are no better than a beggar expecting money to fall into their laps.

 

Yep yep.

 

As you say though, this is the whole problem. Never the twain shall meet. There are just too many opposing views by the population of this country that there will never, ever be a happy medium, and there never has been as far as my limited memory / experience of politics goes. And all politicians are sly old bar stewards. One party introduces Poll tax, their successor removes it and introduces Council tax instead, which is considerably more. Politics is NEVER about change. It's all about blame and rebranding existing policies.

 

There will always be 3 distinct subcultures in any society. Those at the top and politicians scratching each other's backs, the grafters that keep the country moving, and the lower classes. As we've discussed on here before, it's always the 'squeezed middle' (i.e. Sunderland with his £45K salary) that get the biggest shafting.....but most of us realise this and just get on with our lives and enjoy them. Getting stressed about politics is a waste of grey hair and blood pressure. There is absolutely NOTHING we can do to change it, so it's just not worth the angst. If no one votes, they'll do an emergency election and we'll still end up with someone we don't like. If we all gather outside Downing street with our pitchforks threatening a revolt, they'll just declare marshall law and brush us aside like twigs. So where is the gain in getting upset by it? None as far as I can see.

 

The idea that a Utopian existence is possible in this country is futile. You'd be better off moving somewhere where the pace of life is slower and less political and corporate.... Alaska is nice I hear :D