AWD Shopping List

[Rams 0]

Would appreciate some guidance here folkes, so far I have spoken to a company called HR Engineering and they are happy to tackle the AWD conversion to my VR.

 

It's at the beginning stages but I need to start acquiring the bits needed.

 

VR6 Syncro rear beam,

Transfer box

Prop shaft

Haldex diff and controller

Rallye boot floor or passat syncro?

Custom made fuel tanks either mounted nr the rear seats

Custom made drive shafts

Mk4 2.8 gearbox should this be 5 speed or 6?

Mk4 shifter/tower

 

HR have given me some ball park figures and said they have done 4x4 Corrados before and currently doing a Lupo. They have a Facebook page and their website is http://www.hrenginnering.net

 

We discussed 'Roll cages' to make everything stronger but I'm not a fan of them really. Do I need to contact the guys are Dutch dub for anything special/worth while getting? Their website is under construction currently.

 

Harvey who I spoke to at HR suggested leaving the existing boot floor and cutting out the spare wheel section and they do the fabrication to mount the haldex and brackets with custom made drive shafts.

 

Ideally, I would like to keep the items that are used by VW and wondered if I can use VW specific drive shafts at the rear? Or are customs ones just as good?

 

For those who have done this modification, would I be better off buying a passat syncro or best just to buy individual parts needed?

 

To get the haldex controller to work, is it worth me replacing any of the abs system or updating this area? Or have I got to replace the braking system/ESP?

 

I plan to keep the 12v engine and mate a mk4 gearbox to my engine. Are there differences between the 2.8 gearbox and 3.2 to fit the 12v engine?

 

I have someone local that could put the Rallye boot pan in, but could I do this and still drive the car to Its next destination before fitting the syncro beam etc or would I need it to be trailered?

 

I have more questions but these can wait till I start to finalise the list.

 

Cheers

Rams

Edited May 14, 2013 by Rams

[coullstar 0]

First thing that I would say is that do you really need this? Are you doing this because of traction issues? If so try the LSD, Racelogic Traction control, sticky tyres first.

 

I was speaking to a freind the other night who has a VR6T Rallye using std syncro and a Gemini 6 speed box. We were speaking about Haldex etc and he was saying that its easy to bolt this in but to get it working right is hard as the Haldex controller uses so many sensor inputs that to get it working like VW intended you would need to retrofit them. (yaw sensers etc.)

Sounds like if your going 4wd use syncro platform plus it keeps it period. Funnily enough he has spoken to the guy Dutchdub about it and they managed to speak to the guy who wrote the software for the Haldex controller on this. Sadly he couldnt really say much due to IP.

Edited May 14, 2013 by coullstar

[Jim Bowen 1]

No help, but HR Engineering are just up the road from me. Think they were selling a corrado shell converted to 4wd not long ago.

[Rams 0]

Good day sir,

 

I am having traction issues, not majorly but I will be putting a different engine in later and reducing the pulley on the charger and there's no point getting more power in my opinion with my front wheel drive setup.

 

More because i want to increase the drive ability in and out of the corners.

 

I did consider the LSD, I have access to a Quaife gearbox now but some people told me they are not great. So I started looking at Wavetrac and racelogic and costing it up and thought maybe awd is a better jump.

 

I have a use of an Audi TT Quattro and sometimes when I want to nip to the shops I use it and enjoy the way it pulls your round and you almost feel more comfortable in the seat feeding it in and out of the corner. I don't enjoy the car or the engine but just the feeling of the awd.

 

Is it a headache to have the sensors working would you know? Lots of wiring?

 

I could always ask the engineering team if its something they could do?

 

Is the Passat /Golf syncro floor a better option?

[coullstar 0]

Im not really clued up on what would be required for the haldex sensors TBH. I know what you mean but remember Haldex is not a true 4wd system either like the older Quattro.

I'll be honest I never felt like I really needed 4wd in my VRT, it only had a Pelequin diff. If I had fitted the Traction control I reckon it would have been a hell of a lot better. Try and look for PhatVR6's old thread as he fitted the syncro to a Corrado with VR / R32 and IIRC he couldnt get is set up right.

 

Also fitting all that will add weight and possibly upset the balance of the car.

 

I like that your entertaining the idea, if it were me its just the reality of it that I would consider.

[dragon green 5]

I know I haven't got your sort of power,I'm only running about 270bhp.

But I have got a wavetrac fitted,and the race logic traction control,as anybody will tell you the LSD is a true benefit to the Corrado,

The Racelogic is switchable and adjustable,it REALLY does make a big difference,I'm sure Vince has one fitted to the VRT at stealth,perhaps you could have a test ride and you would se what I mean

[Rams 0]

I had a good read through coxys and phats threads and seemed to end on the amount of camber required. This is exactly what I'm trying to do, find out if I can get it done to a high standard as it would be a shame to spoil it.

 

Info gathering now and noticed a few companies offering the conversion and HR have come highly recommended. The last one they did was approx £2200/£2300 and customer supplied everything they needed.

 

Even if by the end of this I'm persuaded to keep it FWD then great but I like to know what I've got to aim for next. It's always been about the Corrado for me... Even after all these years, 10 years a forum member, you'd think I would have learnt my lesson by now! Lol you go way back too!

 

---------- Post added at 7:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 5:32 PM ----------

 

No help, but HR Engineering are just up the road from me. Think they were selling a corrado shell converted to 4wd not long ago.

 

I think its still for sale, £1600 with the cage... Have you seen their workshop or heard much about them? Running syncro setup

 

---------- Post added at 7:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 7:02 PM ----------

 

I know I haven't got your sort of power,I'm only running about 270bhp.

But I have got a wavetrac fitted,and the race logic traction control,as anybody will tell you the LSD is a true benefit to the Corrado,

The Racelogic is switchable and adjustable,it REALLY does make a big difference,I'm sure Vince has one fitted to the VRT at stealth,perhaps you could have a test ride and you would se what I mean

 

Might be a good excuse to attend the rolling day if I can test out the traction control, I will give him a ring this week. Ta

[jaded2882 0]

First thing that I would say is that do you really need this? Are you doing this because of traction issues? If so try the LSD, Racelogic Traction control, sticky tyres first.

 

I was speaking to a freind the other night who has a VR6T Rallye using std syncro and a Gemini 6 speed box. We were speaking about Haldex etc and he was saying that its easy to bolt this in but to get it working right is hard as the Haldex controller uses so many sensor inputs that to get it working like VW intended you would need to retrofit them. (yaw sensers etc.)

Sounds like if your going 4wd use syncro platform plus it keeps it period. Funnily enough he has spoken to the guy Dutchdub about it and they managed to speak to the guy who wrote the software for the Haldex controller on this. Sadly he couldnt really say much due to IP.

 

I would have thought this as well, seems like too much hassle when the syncro stuff matches up so well. The only downside is I guess the syncro prop and diff are not as strong as the Haldex?

 

I'm guessing you discussed it already at Stanford, but JMR are developing some bespoke Corrado AWD stuff at the moment which might be useful.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

For the Haldex, here is an option - http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/314:406:haldex-regulator-controler-valve

 

It basically does away with the Haldex ECU completely and locks it to 50/50 permanently, but bear in mind the haldex diff isn't load sensing, so it will likely increase understeer if permanently engaged. Standard Haldex operation is on after 1/4 revolution of the front wheels and off when braking and during ABS operation.

 

Bear in mind you will be adding 200kg+ weight to the car, so off boost performance will be very noticably blunted.

 

My advice, FWIW, don't bother with the Haldex, use a Rallye/syncro diff instead ;)

 

edit: the SQS has a brake pedal sensor to deactivate the diff when braking. Happy days, no understeer. Please proceed :D

Edited May 14, 2013 by Kevin Bacon

[Rams 0]

That sounds neat, where and how you find these things I will never know! Plus I'm learning what the system does when braking which I didn't even think needed consideration. So thanks for that.

 

I'm still confused with Syncro and Rallye difference. Are they the same thing using a different boot pan? Then I need to mount the haldex to the rear beam and mounts are made to support the diff. I believe there are 3 mounts, 1 either side and one near the middle and saw that one of the guys made a sub frame bar to mount the middle one on the top.

 

The Rallye uses a viscous coupling to drive the rear axel? Is that correct? What are the main differences between syncro and Rallye please? Does the syncro use a different prop and transfer box?

 

If I go with the sqs valve, do I need sensors at all? Or does this work in conjunction with the sensors? How would it know to deactivate the diff when braking? Assume it links electrically to the brake pedal switch or is this a hydraulic change? Kind of thinking out loud as typing?

 

Wondering if Barbs would notice if I stole the haldex off her TT? I did consider buying it as she wants a new car which she's been offered silly figures for as part X. When I looked underneath last time it was on the ramps and I did wonder if more was compatible? She gave me the evils as I said you don't need awd and then looked at my car lol

[Jim Bowen 1]

 

I think its still for sale, £1600 with the cage... Have you seen their workshop or heard much about them? Running syncro setup

 

Nah, i've never seen one of their cars about, nor heard anyone mention them. I drive out that way very often and still aren't sure where the workshop is. Must be a unit on a farm imo as there isn't much industry around that area.

[Rams 0]

Based here, I had never heard of them either but my welder speaks highly of them but said they are not cheap. He knows some people that had work done there.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That sounds neat, where and how you find these things I will never know! Plus I'm learning what the system does when braking which I didn't even think needed consideration. So thanks for that.

 

I'm still confused with Syncro and Rallye difference. Are they the same thing using a different boot pan? Then I need to mount the haldex to the rear beam and mounts are made to support the diff. I believe there are 3 mounts, 1 either side and one near the middle and saw that one of the guys made a sub frame bar to mount the middle one on the top.

 

The Rallye uses a viscous coupling to drive the rear axel? Is that correct? What are the main differences between syncro and Rallye please? Does the syncro use a different prop and transfer box?

 

If I go with the sqs valve, do I need sensors at all? Or does this work in conjunction with the sensors? How would it know to deactivate the diff when braking? Assume it links electrically to the brake pedal switch or is this a hydraulic change? Kind of thinking out loud as typing?

 

Wondering if Barbs would notice if I stole the haldex off her TT? I did consider buying it as she wants a new car which she's been offered silly figures for as part X. When I looked underneath last time it was on the ramps and I did wonder if more was compatible? She gave me the evils as I said you don't need awd and then looked at my car lol

 

You soon get to know all the tuning companies and the little tricks when you start down the modding path :D

 

I'm not sure of the differences between Rallye and Syncro unfortunately. 4WD was the one thing I never considered for my Corrado so didn't really research it. It does indeed use a viscous coupling. This and Audi's torsen (torque sensing) diff are load sensing, so when the car is driving slowly the rears aren't doing anything. The Haldex is a far more basic on/off affair and relies on a myriad of sensors to enable and disable it. ABS sensors, pedal sensor, handbrake sensor, throttle position etc etc.

 

I suspect Haldex is more plentiful than Syncro! I know you want to keep the 12V engine but converting to an R32 (and keeping the Rotrex) would make life a bit easier in terms of going full Haldex and I'm sure the transfer box and O2M box could be fitted somehow.

 

Yeah the SQS valve is very simple, it literally just takes a signal from the brake pedal switch. I'm not sure if you could integrate it into the Corrado's ABS or not but the valve is primarily for 1/4 mile racing and conversions. I'm not sure what it would be like on a road car but so I'm sure it'd be fine!

 

Yeah steal it. FWD will do her just fine :D

[coullstar 0]

I believe the Rallye uses the the Syncro system. Rallye is just a model of Mk2 so the system is called syncro.

 

I personally wouldnt go 4wd unless I was looking at some very high power (500bhp+) but then you can just size the turbo right or get it mapped to help with power delivery with progressive boost control.

[Jim Bowen 1]

Get an audi S2 instead, i do have a love for them

 

http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?28389-Corrado-VR6-VERS-Audi-S2!!!!!!!!!!!

[MattPc 0]

Hr Engineering's workshop is his home garage. they're a few villages along from me, and their work is pretty damn good, attention to detail is evident, hence why they are a little more expensive than others.

[16VG60 1]

Hi Rams,

Having previously maintained and tuned many of my customers various 4WD VAG cars, and most recently built a Rallye to order from a bare shell, am currently engaged in my own Corrado 4WD project.

My build is based around the use of the TT Quattro O2M 6 speed gearbox, custom propshaft & driveshafts, Rallye rear beam modified for Mk1 Haldex diff. We are deleting the Haldex centre diff viscous coupling, and re-designing this area to give "proper" Quattro drive line, ergo removing the hassle and inadequacy of this system.

For the remainder of the conversion I am welding in the Rallye boot floor, utilising the Rallye fuel tank, and using an interior mounted brake bias control system. My reason for this conversion, is that with 300bhp on my 16VG60 engine including a Quaife in the system. AWD would have proved useful. With a new turbo upgrade in the latest project build and 440 BHP 4WD and a stronger transmission is going to be a deffinate asset.

Clearly we would be happy to carry out your conversion, and / or offer guidance for your consideration

Regards, John

JMR Ltd

01903718684.

[Rams 0]

I will be in-touch, sounds interesting

[16VG60 1]

Hi Rams,

Having previously maintained and tuned many of my customers various 4WD VAG cars, and most recently built a Rallye to order from a bare shell, am currently engaged in my own Corrado 4WD project.

My build is based around the use of the TT Quattro O2M 6 speed gearbox, custom propshaft & driveshafts, Rallye rear beam modified for Mk1 Haldex diff. We are deleting the Haldex centre diff viscous coupling, and re-designing this area to give "proper" Quattro drive line, ergo removing the hassle and inadequacy of this system.

For the remainder of the conversion I am welding in the Rallye boot floor, utilising the Rallye fuel tank, and using an interior mounted brake bias control system. My reason for this conversion, is that with 300bhp on my 16VG60 engine including a Quaife in the system. AWD would have proved useful. With a new turbo upgrade in the latest project build and 440 BHP 4WD and a stronger transmission is going to be a deffinate asset.

Clearly we would be happy to carry out your conversion, and / or offer guidance for your consideration

Regards, John

JMR Ltd

01903718684.

[quicky1980 0]

I have a syncro rear beam already converted to run haldex. Uses the dutch dub conversion kit. Price is £350 preferably collected but postage possible but at buyers cost. Haldex not included.

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[quicky1980 0]

The rallye diff is tougher (made of cast iron instead of aluminium) but otherwise the beam is the same besides the brakes being disks on the rallye version. Ive collected sysncro/rallye bits over time and the above is going spare.

​

Good source of info is http://www.vwsyncro.co.uk