What is this noise? Piston slap? (VR6) - maybe not the end of the world..

[Jim 2]

I've uploaded a video clip of starting my VR6 from cold.

 

 

Assuming this is piston slap, is there anything else that can cure it beyond ultimately getting the bottom end rebuilt (again)? The noise is like that loudly for the first 15-30 seconds or so as you can hear in the video, then quietens a little but doesn't really go away until the oil temperature is about 80+ degrees. And then then, I'm pretty sure you can briefly hear it when you stop / start the car, or if you put it under any load.

 

Cheers.

[Harrier 1]

If the noise reduces as the engine warms up then my guess would be piston slap, they all seem to do it to a lesser or greater degree in my experience.

Was your engine re-bored when it was overhauled ? It's probably the only way to get rid of the noise all together. My old cars engine was re-bored with new pistons and it was relatively very quiet afterwards. Cost a bit though..:(

[Jim 2]

I believe it was just honed and the pistons re-ringed.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I'm at work and just have a PC speaker to go by, so can't say for sure, but it does sound kind of piston slappy. Shouldn't be that bad this time of year though and should quieten up after 30 seconds.

 

As above, when I had my VR turbo engine built with new 83mm pistons, that thing was super quiet, even from cold, no slapping. No top end tapping either from the Schimmel cams and Schimmel head. So yeah, VRs can be quiet, but it's not cheap!

 

I'd say ignore it Jim and just squirrel some money away each month for a rebuild or a conversion of some sort.

[Jim 2]

Yeah - it's even worse when it's really cold out.

 

I think a rebore of the block and new pistons is going to be the only way to fix it, from speaking to Vince. Think I'd be tempted to go back to stock VR cams again as well as I do find the Schimmels noisy for some reason.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I wouldn't mate! When I did that on my VRT, the difference to low down pull between the Schimmel and standard cams was ridiculous. The standards felt flat everywhere in the rev range. If they're not working for you from a noise / performance perspective, it's not the cams themselves that's the issue as they're a well proven cam.

[Jim Bowen 1]

My original engine had the same noise but quite a bit worse, my neighbour would comment on it if he was outside. I put it down to the pistons etc. The 2nd engine i had didn't do it but had the tappy tick noise from the head.

 

Am hoping with my new engine it will be nice and quiet, still using the 263 cams, but with every other bit of engine new so am hoping the top end is quiet. While stripping old engine down i did notice a tiny little bit of evidence of it blowing on engine manifold to block, which i've heard can make a tapping type noise.

 

Was some brand new 2.8 blocks with pistons on ebay a while ago, not sure if any are left, but Vince and his lads thought it was a good deal/sensible choice.

[Jim 2]

I'm accepting for now I'll just have to live with it and I'm just trying to decide whether I want to make my VR a real long term project... so an(other) engine rebuild, and a full respray, but accept that neither of those are likely to happen in the next year or so at least and just start putting money away to do good things to the car longer term.

 

Just disappointed as the rebuild cost so much money and I thought that was the engine taken care of for years. I didn't expect to be needing to revisit it so soon.

[Wendy 0]

Longer term Jim this car should always repay you, so if you can then def. keep it and stash some money away now for the fixes as suggested later.

[Roger Chatfield 0]

Tbh it doesn't sound that bad to me, I think most VR's are a little tippy these days.

If it really bothers you maybe pick up a spare engine and rebuild it slow time.

Or just get a block and rebuild that as you know your current top end is A1.

 

Btw, I think you should go back to stock cams... Put me first on the list for the 263's please... ;)

 

Rog.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Roger Chatfield

[VEEDUBBED 0]

All the more reason to buy VEEDUBBED'S 19.000km stripped Vr6 engine, no rebore needed Jim!

[Jim 2]

Things are getting worse it seems :( Aside from being noisy at start up / from cold the engine seemed OK once warmed up but I've noticed last few weeks of driving it there's been a significantly louder 'tapping' noise once up to temperature. Thought I'd take a video to share as there's just no way this is right.

 

I think I might have to seriously consider untaxing it now until I have some money to look into this issue properly as something is amiss. Hard to know if this is a top or bottom end noise though.

 

Wish I'd never had this rebuild done. So much money thrown away for nothing.

 

 

Cheers.

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

oh dear Jim I feel for you in your position :(

 

was there any mention of the issue persisting by those who rebuilt it?

 

if the cylinders were in such a state that you were getting piston slap before the work was done then should it not have been advised that a re-honing would not stop the noise

[Wendy 0]

Jim - Mine is noisy on start up, but I believe tappets and certainly more of a tinny sound then I could hear there.

I presume you must have someone else (Who has the same engine arrangement) start their car from cold to do a proper comparison

 

Apart from being noisy - is there any downside to driving it though, as if not, I would not park up the car, but still use it until as such time as you can address it and turn up the sound system. Seriously.

 

I know this would still drive you mad, but perhaps less so than parking it up ? !!!

 

Be positive.

[[email protected] 10]

Could be the big ends (worse) or tappets & cam.

[Jim 2]

I'm trying to tell myself it is just tappets as I know they have a slightly different noise in the VR compared to the four cylinder Corrado's I've owned over the years. But I think as I can't afford to get it inspected for a while, it's time for it to come off the road for a while.

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

sorry to say this jim but it doesn't sound or act like the typical tappets noise

 

the noise on your video doesn't sound like my VR used to before I had new tappets during my head rebuild :(

 

could you possibly take it to stealth & ask vince just to have a listen? im sure he wouldn't charge you for a quick nose around & he would have heard many a poorly VR I would imagine

[Jon_vr6 1]

Is it something as simple as a tensioner bearing for the aux belt?

[Jim 2]

sorry to say this jim but it doesn't sound or act like the typical tappets noise

 

the noise on your video doesn't sound like my VR used to before I had new tappets during my head rebuild :(

 

could you possibly take it to stealth & ask vince just to have a listen? im sure he wouldn't charge you for a quick nose around & he would have heard many a poorly VR I would imagine

 

Yeah - I may get in touch with him in the next few weeks and take it over for a quick listen.

 

It was an interesting suggestion regarding big ends - watching some videos on youtube the type of sound and when it occurs does seem to match up with what I'm watching. Also a bit of a rattle when the engine first starts up too (even if warm). Ugh.

 

In some respects I'm kind of pleased that something more fundamental is happening with the engine as it means it'll need sorting properly and not just something I can 'live with' - but to have flushed £3,000 down the toilet only a year ago for nothing makes me extremely sad and angry.

[Jim 2]

Is it something as simple as a tensioner bearing for the aux belt?

 

No chance mate - it sounds pretty loud and the volume changes depending on the engine revs. It's definitely emanating from within the motor :(

[Jon_vr6 1]

No chance mate - it sounds pretty loud and the volume changes depending on the engine revs. It's definitely emanating from within the motor :(

 

Ah okay hope its something simple buddy but these things never are.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Sounds a bit too high pitched to be big ends. Big ends sounds like a diesely knocking noise, very deep chested from the bowels of the engine. That sounds top endy to me.

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

could the old trick of 'using a long screw driver or similar to press on various parts of the engine & put your ear on the other end' possibly help trace where the noise is emanating from?

 

if not, jim, get yourself down stealth & let vince listen

 

I understand how disappointed you must be, as well as sad & angry, as I went through similar emotions when things were not right after id also spent so much on the VR. vince put everything right & a little more :)

[VAG-hag 0]

Think I'd be sending the engine builder the bill for this

[Jim 2]

It's sort of become a bit of an elephant in the room thing though, Chris. I don't feel like I can go back. Now the company has closed it's doors and I was unfriended off Facebook soon after (no idea why) - I don't actually have any direct contact :( Would I have any legal standpoint?! This is not a route I'd want to go down but similarly that sum of money took me some effort to amass and it's not an amount I'm going to have to re-do this work any time soon.

 

Sorry I've been so vague about all this. I'm not really into naming and shaming and obviously given that the rebuild was done by someone formerly who was a part of this community it's become an extremely awkward situation - but I'm at the point now where I need to get something done.. I'm just not sure how to go about it.