Head Gasket Installation

[oneohtwo 8]

I'm just coming up to installing the new head gasket and refreshed cylinder head, but … obvious question: how clean does the engine block face have to be? I've scraped off as much as I can of the remaining gunk that was still stuck on after getting back from Stealth, and wiped down a few times with brake cleaner but a few areas look kinda rough/pitted:

There's obviously no way I can get it skimmed now or anything like that, but is that clean enough? I know it is just around the cooling jacket areas, so pretty well contained (and there are areas of pitting left on the head after skimming, from previous damage) but a second opinion would be handy as it's a critical item. All the youtube vids seem to be dealing with nice, shiny, freshly skimmed blocks!

 

Also noticed inside the bores these marks have appeared:

Any ideas? The cylinders were rebored and rehoned with Stealth, and fairly sure they weren't there before. All I can think of is tiny rust marks, but I've kept the bores oiled up and under cover so would be a bit gutted if that was the case. Obviously nothing I can do about it now though, so ah well.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by oneohtwo

[oneohtwo 8]

Right, given it some more thought and cleaning and got things nice and flat. Will put a thin smear of well seal in the pitted areas, but they are self contained and shouldn't be an issue. I will have to live with the odd marks on the bore, and they should be mostly above the piston ring travel anyway.

Next thing I've discovered, I am missing the little insets into the bolt holes for locating the gasket and cylinder head - anyone know where these can be obtained?! Part No. is N90502601 but can only seem to find it from US stores, and one on ebay from Latvia but could do with somewhere that's going to be easier to deliver...

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by oneohtwo

[ABV-VR6 12]

Nice work! I was going to suggest scrubbing with a white 3M pad but you got it out already! 

Are you installing a mk4 metal head gasket? 

[oneohtwo 8]

No, just sticking with the original fibre one. Never really considered it to be honest - only recently discovered it was an option!

[ABV-VR6 12]

The mk3 fiber head gasket is prone to failures. I guess that's why VW went metal on the next generation even though it's somewhat the same engine. Anyways, it's pretty much the same cost, direct bolt on and peace of mind. I'm going for it! 

[oneohtwo 8]

Yeah, you're right it's not a bad shout and I might have gone with it if I'd known earlier but I think I'll stick with standard - I've got the parts now and I understand the metal gaskets are less forgiving of areas of pitting of which I have plenty. 

I did talk through the head gaskets with Vince at Stealth and he didn't mention avoiding the old mk 3 gasket, so hopefully they can't be too horrendous

[ABV-VR6 12]

I wouldn't worry too much about it either. It's not a must, just an upgrade for about the same cost. And if you're not going turbo and don't stretch it for 150 miles you'll be more than ok I'll say!

[oneohtwo 8]

Right, if it's not one thing, it's another. Came to fit the head gasket today and the Elring one I bought doesn't fit... It doesn't fully align with the guides, so if you push it on it doesn't lay flat, just bows upwards. I'm guessing this isn't normal, right?

Furthermore the flame rings are all slightly out from cylinder 1 onwards... so by the time you get to cylinder 6 there's a big gap.

I thought about just shaving a bit off the guide hole to get it to fit, but then the cylinder rings still overlap. This isn't just me and it's supposed to be like this and somehow shrinks to fit eventually right?!

 

[Keyo 47]

58 minutes ago, oneohtwo said:

Right, if it's not one thing, it's another. Came to fit the head gasket today and the Elring one I bought doesn't fit... It doesn't fully align with the guides, so if you push it on it doesn't lay flat, just bows upwards. I'm guessing this isn't normal, right?

Furthermore the flame rings are all slightly out from cylinder 1 onwards... so by the time you get to cylinder 6 there's a big gap.

I thought about just shaving a bit off the guide hole to get it to fit, but then the cylinder rings still overlap. This isn't just me and it's supposed to be like this and somehow shrinks to fit eventually right?!

 

Have you still got your other JP gasket can you see if that sits correctly ? If not something may be distorted I guess. 

[oneohtwo 8]

Yeah, but was reluctant to get it out of the pack as Heritage said I can return it, and it wasn't cheap. The old gasket (Victor Reinz) slips straight on. Seems odd as it's more that it's slightly too long than distorted... Can't understand how that would happen. Pretty annoyed because went for the Elring for quality!

[Keyo 47]

1 hour ago, oneohtwo said:

Yeah, but was reluctant to get it out of the pack as Heritage said I can return it, and it wasn't cheap. The old gasket (Victor Reinz) slips straight on. Seems odd as it's more that it's slightly too long than distorted... Can't understand how that would happen. Pretty annoyed because went for the Elring for quality!

I would be as well because elring and Victor have the best reputation, I would ping a few pics over to Vince mate and see what he says . Does it have the vag equivalent part number on the package or do you have the elring part number can you list  ? No 12 on diagram - VW classics have it but says genuine VW quality but not original so probably is a victor or elring. 021103383J  50-P-004 000 the superseded by this 021103383L - just wondering if you might have the incorrect gasket for 2.8 head or something like that (although i think they are the same) . 

http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_single/catalog/vw/markt/RDW/modell/COR/year/1994/drive_standart/76/hg_ug/103/subcategory/5007/part_id/3685734/lang/e#sec_12

Edited May 1, 2020 by Keyo

[Keyo 47]

Is it possible that your guides are not square ? 

[oneohtwo 8]

Thanks, will check the part numbers in the morning. The listing was definitely for the 2.9, and as you say the 2.8 is the same block.

The guides are brand new and checked they were seated correctly, plus the old gasket slipped on fine, so I think they are ok. 

Unfortunately did it too late in the day so just missed Vince when I tried to give him a call! Will have to try again on Monday.

[Keyo 47]

Keep us updated would be good to know what the issue is. Cheers. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Keyo

[oneohtwo 8]

Spoke to Vince, and he said he had the exact same issue with an Elring gasket the other day.  He said it hadn't caused him any issues, he'd just forced it on, and pushed it down when it popped up, so it sounds like might be a bad batch. He didn't seem to have the rings out of alignment though, but didn't think it was an issue as long as it didn't overhang the bore - feels a bit odd having the slight gap at the top though. 

His suggestion was to install the head and nip the old bolts up, leave it overnight then see if it has sorted itself out, so will give that a go.

 

 

[Tigerfish 10]

Spoke to Vince, and he said he had the exact same issue with an Elring gasket the other day.  He said it hadn't caused him any issues, he'd just forced it on, and pushed it down when it popped up, so it sounds like might be a bad batch. He didn't seem to have the rings out of alignment though, but didn't think it was an issue as long as it didn't overhang the bore - feels a bit odd having the slight gap at the top though. 
His suggestion was to install the head and nip the old bolts up, leave it overnight then see if it has sorted itself out, so will give that a go.
 
 

Does all sound a bit odd. I think given the importance of the gasket, I’d get a different one rather than risk it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Keyo 47]

On 5/4/2020 at 10:39 AM, oneohtwo said:

Spoke to Vince, and he said he had the exact same issue with an Elring gasket the other day.  He said it hadn't caused him any issues, he'd just forced it on, and pushed it down when it popped up, so it sounds like might be a bad batch. He didn't seem to have the rings out of alignment though, but didn't think it was an issue as long as it didn't overhang the bore - feels a bit odd having the slight gap at the top though. 

His suggestion was to install the head and nip the old bolts up, leave it overnight then see if it has sorted itself out, so will give that a go.

 

 

How did you get on with this ? 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Keyo

[oneohtwo 8]

Didn't get a chance to get down to the garage today, so will have a look tomorrow.

Agree it does seem a bit odd... why after years of producing decent gaskets would they suddenly get the size wrong. I'll see how it looks after I take the head back off and make a decision I think.

[Keyo 47]

29 minutes ago, oneohtwo said:

Didn't get a chance to get down to the garage today, so will have a look tomorrow.

Agree it does seem a bit odd... why after years of producing decent gaskets would they suddenly get the size wrong. I'll see how it looks after I take the head back off and make a decision I think.

Mate I have seen this on Murrays Direct and he is very clued up. He says elring gasket for a very late VR block - read description - I could not see any change over in part number on etka for gasket- but this seller knows his stuff.  So in other words could two different types. He has from engine number on description. 

Sats basically From Engine Number ABV-014-001 elring number should be (complete kit elring NO 224460   

Engines made from approximately Mid-November 1994] to end of Corrado production in 1995]/ 

Worth checking this out mate . 

 

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elring-OEM-Head-Gasket-Set-VW-Mk3-Golf-VR6-AAA-Corrado-VR6-ABV-1995-98-Only-/153300781746

Edited May 7, 2020 by Keyo

[Keyo 47]

After looking a bit further into this on elrings site I think the engine number part refers to a change to the rubber cylinder head cover gasket - not the main block gasket. 

https://web.tecalliance.net/elring/en/parts/cars/assigned?targetId=1755&typeNumber=1755&assemblyGroupId=100223&page=0#@brc/brands:Car;targetType:cars;mandator:elring/assem:VW CORRADO (53I) 2.9 VR6;targetType:cars;mandator:elring;targetId:1755;typeNumber:1755/lnkparts:Gaskets;targetType:cars;mandator:elring;targetId:1755;typeNumber:1755;assemblyGroupId:100223;page:0

[oneohtwo 8]

Yes, you are correct - it's the rubber cam cover gasket that's the different part. I bought the kit from Murrays and checked with Vince before I bought and he confirmed there was no change in the head gasket, just the cam cover which is apparently plastic on the very late ones.  Also checked with Murrays as well, and he said the same. Cheers for looking into it though, appreciate the assistance. Don't know if it's worth advising people to swerve the Elring gaskets for the time being...

Anyway, will see what's what today. Vince seemed unconcerned with the one he had that didn't fit well - he put it all on and said it was running fine, so if it's good enough for Vince!

[Keyo 47]

7 minutes ago, oneohtwo said:

Yes, you are correct - it's the rubber cam cover gasket that's the different part. I bought the kit from Murrays and checked with Vince before I bought and he confirmed there was no change in the head gasket, just the cam cover which is apparently plastic on the very late ones.  Also checked with Murrays as well, and he said the same. Cheers for looking into it though, appreciate the assistance. Don't know if it's worth advising people to swerve the Elring gaskets for the time being...

Anyway, will see what's what today. Vince seemed unconcerned with the one he had that didn't fit well - he put it all on and said it was running fine, so if it's good enough for Vince!

Sound chap best of luck with it. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Keyo

[oneohtwo 8]

Took the head back off and it does look a bit better. Just the rings at 1 and 6 are slightly out, but by 1-2mm. It's just the outside edge as well, so will probably stick with it. Still a bit odd...

Will try and post pictures tomorrow.

[oneohtwo 8]

All fixed down now, but this is what it looked like in the end:

So hardly anything out. Anyway, took a picture of the Elring gasket compared to the JP Group one, just for reference:

Hard to see any difference between them with the JP in the package, but the flame rings on the Elring appear wider, and the fibre patterning is more pronounced on the JP. The JP didn't look bad quality just on a visual inspection, but I guess hard to know what the materials are like.

The Elring exhaust gasket on the left appears to have a zinc finish on it, whereas the JP doesn't so clear difference in material there. Also has a sharper bend in it.

Can't really draw many conclusions from that, but thought it may be of interest. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by oneohtwo

[Keyo 47]

1 hour ago, oneohtwo said:

All fixed down now, but this is what it looked like in the end:

So hardly anything out. Anyway, took a picture of the Elring gasket compared to the JP Group one, just for reference:

Hard to see any difference between them with the JP in the package, but the flame rings on the Elring appear wider, and the fibre patterning is more pronounced on the JP. The JP didn't look bad quality just on a visual inspection, but I guess hard to know what the materials are like.

The Elring exhaust gasket on the left appears to have a zinc finish on it, whereas the JP doesn't so clear difference in material there. Also has a sharper bend in it.

Can't really draw many conclusions from that, but thought it may be of interest. 

You wont be able to tell the difference because its in the quality of manufacturing (make up of the metal )how resistant the life of the metal is with the coolant crap eating away at it - Elring made in Germany and JP even if says its a Danish company will be made probably in China.    If you google the part number of the JP one you will probably see it is quite cheap and Heritage have put a high mark up on it . That there way of making money. You can relax knowing you sourced the brand with the NO1 reputation in the gasket game. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Keyo