Ulez emissions

[fla 9]

Just a thought about Ulez. Can your mot centre check and see if the car is ulez compliant eg if it has a newer style of engine that is ok for ulez? Eg an r32 in a corrado?

On mine, its now OBD2 plus schrick. Now whether these affect emissions i don't know, but if they do then could it then be reclassified as in line with eg Euro 4, if the standards are met?

[_Matt_ 32]

Theoretically it is possible - change the engine for a Euro4 or better, ensure the catalytic converter is just as good as Euro4 or better. Notify the DVLA of engine change and also have an independent emssions rolling road test, not cheap apparently but can't find any info.

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/service/clean-vehicle-retrofit-accreditation-scheme/

 

• Can I replace the engine in my car to become CAZ, LEZ or ULEZ compliant (engine re-power)?

  

  This is possible, however there are no CVRAS approved re-powers for cars. This kind of conversion would be a DVLA notifiable modification in terms of engine number and engine capacity, but it would not lead to a change in emission values as stated on the vehicle’s V5C document (logbook) unless an expensive full rolling road emissions test is conducted to obtain the new emission values. This test would need to be conducted at a Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) approved test facility and cannot be conducted at an MOT test centre.

 

[Dox 23]

I'm in Cheshire so I've not really followed this TBH, would an LPG conversion help with ULEZ?

[Crasher 3]

LPG is going https://www.catmag.co.uk/lpg-phase-out-continues-as-shell-ends-autogas-supply

[oneohtwo 8]

Is anyone else going to be affected by the probably expansion of the ULEZ in 2023 to cover the whole of Greater London? I have only just discovered the plans in place to expand it. I am on the fringe of it at the moment, but if (as seems likely) it goes ahead I'll be well inside.

It will probably mean I have to sell the car as £4 grand a year isn't really justifiable or affordable, which is more than a bit gutting. I don't necessarily disagree with expanding the scheme, and the Corrado is always looking more of an anachronism day by day, but it's still a massive personal project and labour of love with huge sentimental value that it's a massive kick in the teeth. I've only really just got the engine where I want it as well, and still had plenty of plans.  I've had it 12 years and if I am honest I couldn't ever see myself selling it, but would keep it alongside a more modern daily eventually (plus classic car collection... we can but dream!)

The only other option as far as I can see is to tell the gf we have to move house!

 

 

[_Matt_ 32]

Well the extension for me was a reason to move a while ago. I used to live in Potters Bar which isn't in ULEZ but right on the edge of the proposed expansion.

It is a shame the scheme doesn't take account of cars "living in" the zone and rather just blanket accounts for all old cars whether they are driving in from outside or living in. I don't agree with charging cars "living in" as it's dictating what you can and can't do and in reality those cars "living in" are used so infrequently it does not make a jot of difference to the environment other than increase revenues and control what people can and can't do. 

I moved to rural area and rarely see people. Bliss.

 

 

[Crasher 3]

Yes but Herr Reichsfuhrer Khan is "saving the planet"

[fla 9]

I've noticed a huge increase in EVs generally, and it seems the official statistic is 1,000,000 now. So if the objective is to improve air quality by substitution there should be an easy enough algorithm to calculate the benefit which MUST be near to a 'health' target. So expanding ulez really shouldn't be necessary. And not everyone can afford to buy an EV anyway

[oneohtwo 8]

As I say I don't necessarily oppose it or agree with that characterisation of Mr Khan generally, but it is a shame there's no room for people like us whose cars aren't yet 40 years old and historic but still represents more of a hobby or passion than a means of transport. 

However, looking into it a bit further I may have the wrong end of the stick. I can't quite confirm but it might be that you only pay the charge if you drive the car, not just how long it is in the ULEZ which would seem more reasonable, and probably an acceptable trade off. 

[_Matt_ 32]

Now you say that, my understanding is also you pay to drive it. Still a crappy cost on top of everything else. I watched a documentary the other day on modern hybrids emitting more harmful emissions than diesel cars - a step backward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCti-qQFHTA

I guess the push to "greener" cars has more to do with box ticking (capitalism, KPIs and media bites) than saving the planet.

The WEF wants to us to do away with personal transport altogether and in towns and cities and that does mean getting rid of personal transport and motivating people to use public transport. Arguably, and taking my car enthusiast hat off, that is better for everyone in built up areas. However the application is broad a far; a 30 year old Corrado for example is going to be used in exactly the same way as a 40 year old classic car so should be licenced in such a way that they are treated the same in these ULEZ type zones imo.

   

 

 

 

 

[oneohtwo 8]

Yeah you're right, there isn't really any difference between it and a 40 year old car. I use the car on occasional weekends and trips away. It's not a daily commuter or shopping car and to go to the shops I can either walk or use public transport, but London is very well connected so this makes sense. But yeah, an annoying extra cost and also admin, especially if in a hurry - easy to forget to do and land yourself with a fine. But I can live with it and not sell the car! That's a relief.

Interesting documentary, although felt it was somewhat lacking and potentially misleading in the bit about the hybrids. For instance there was no attempt to address why the hybrid's engines emitted more VOCs than the diesels and nor was there a direct comparison to the other petrol engine. (They only mentioned briefly that the petrol was also worse than the diesel). After all these are still ICEs that are being tested - they hybrids are obviously not emitting the VOCs from the electric motors, so what's the difference? Is it that they smaller engines working harder - and if so, is this likely to also be the case with other smaller non-hybrid cars.

And they didn't offer a comparison for overall levels of pollutants: is the increase in VOCs offset by a massive reduction in other pollutants, nor did they say what the level of difference in the VOCs was? And then in real world conditions is there a difference over the length of a journey? The hybrid will in part be running on electric motors but the diesel won't so how does that affect things? I think it raises more questions than it answers.

Not to say there aren't necessarily issues around these things. I believe I have read that plug in hybrids are particularly bad because nobody bothers to plug them in, so they are just thrashing about on the tiny range extender engine instead. But that's more user error. 

And the bit about battery life is spot on, there's no second hand market for these cars unless you can replace the battery; it's just pointless. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by oneohtwo

[_Matt_ 32]

I'm not really that clued up in the area but could it be with hybrids  their ICE components never get to peak operating temperature around town, and they are also heavier vehicles, so when the ICE part is operated they are always at their most inefficient state and produce more VOCs in normal usage/test  conditions? 

My understand is once an engine is warmed up and at peak efficiency it is pretty clean on balance.

A lot of it has to be on usage though and as you say if people don't bother charging them then that is not going to help.  

 

 

 

[fla 9]

Well there seems to be a slight bit of light at the end of the tunnel, although I'll need to look into the retrofit technology:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-scrappage-scheme-offers-london-drivers-£5000

[_Matt_ 32]

That is at least an option rather than scrapping entirely. Perhaps the powers that be have learnt that scrapping only is not the right option like it was back way back when they looked to rid the road of old cars (and get people into £monthlies to stimulate their real agenda).

Nice to see engine conversions being mentioned. Its been a game to play since the beginning of the motorcar but often frowned upon by some. If it becomes a way to keep the old stuff alive and workshops a lifeline to build euro6 conversions packages then it just formalises what lots of people are doing already, gives an easy route of achieving to those that can't themselves and gets us out of part obsolete land for the mechanicals at least.

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