Whats the highest ouput (BHP) you can get out of a g60?????

[Valver 0]

kevhaywire> that was Mark Harries' mk2 wasn't it?.. :mrgreen:

[RACK 0]

Might be a little off topic, but henny, how much work was involved putting the 1st and 2nd gear froma VR into your Gearbox?

[Henny 0]

I paid Vince to do it... ;) I don't do gearboxes, they scare me too much 'cos there's so many small moving parts in there which are too easy to screw up for my liking! :oops: :roll: :lol:

[Sandy 0]

I've been running my G60 for 2 years (every day car) with this power output :

 

Din Power 217bhp

power @ wheels 164bhp

Torque 197 IBS/FT

 

I've not had any problems.

[MelG60 0]

My G60 had 276hp/330Nm at the crank. Now with different cam/charger/injectors i am hoping for some more (certainly feels like more! :lol: ) I am bringing it soon to JD for a custom chip. AME of Berlin had a MK1 Golf 8V G60 drag car with 330hp.

[g-dub 0]

AME of Berlin had a MK1 Golf 8V G60 drag car with 330hp

 

ooohh!! anywhere i can get any details of his car so i can compare my G60 drag car to it, also any times that he or you get on the qtr mile.

[Guest]

I know Struan (BigeastsideG60) got 240ish BHP outta his G60 with around 190LbFt torque

 

I see the fantasy RR league is alive and kicking. :roll:

 

240bhp with 190lbft comes out at 6634RPM - on an 8v G60?

 

Most RRs quote peak bhp & peak torque but peak torque occurs at peak V.E. which is at lower RPM than peak bhp as EBP is a rising rate function of RPM. Therefore as the torque drops, the RPM must increase to make the same bhp. Must be one of those VTEC G60's or more likely the RR operator dialled in a shed-load of "transmission loss".

 

The thing that lifts heads and bends rods is high peak cylinder pressure and the rapid rise to it (5-6 bar per crank deg). The retarded timing necessary to avoid detonation in high boost engines means that more of the burn takes place later in the stroke = less work on the piston and a slow rate of pressure rise. Yet another reason why torque (and thus bhp) doesn't increase proportionally with boost pressure. However if you increase your detonation threshold, through the use of water injection for example, you can then advance your timing to improve torque but the at the risk of exceeding the engine component specifications via excessive peak cylinder pressures.

[Joe M 0]

245bhp and 200lbft for Struan, looks like 175.5bhp at the wheels. I have a blurry vid of it im trying to make out the screen on. He got them results at the forum rr day and all the other results seemed to be about what you would expect from the cars.

[dr_mat 0]

I'm sure the 175.5 bhp at the wheels was pretty near to correct.... Interesting that we're suggesting that the tyres, drive shafts, gearbox and diff absorbed 70bhp (if so, how does a 1.1 fiesta actually MOVE at all?).

[Joe M 0]

I know what you mean, it does seem strange. Mine lost about 50bhp through the drivetrain on the same day.

[dr_mat 0]

You only slipped the guy a fiver, obviously.. ;) :lol:

 

Transmission losses:

 

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/trans.htm

 

This suggests 10% + 10 bhp for a typical FWD car is reasonable. The maths works out for "standard" engines and standard Corrado top speeds, so it's very plausible.

 

Make of it what you will...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

kevhaywire> that was Mark Harries' mk2 wasn't it?.. :mrgreen:

 

Certainly was :lol:

 

I remember the power battle him and John Reay had. Mark went 2.0 G60 and John went 16V Turbo. I later bought John's 16v Turbo 8) Both are superb conversions.

[exturbo2003 0]

well mine runs a 68 pulley a piper cam and a flowed charger from pitstop and it made 211.4 bhp and 201.8 ftlb's at stealth earlier this month 8)

[Sandy 0]

I'm sure the 175.5 bhp at the wheels was pretty near to correct.... Interesting that we're suggesting that the tyres, drive shafts, gearbox and diff absorbed 70bhp (if so, how does a 1.1 fiesta actually MOVE at all?).

 

Coz 1.1 fiesta's don't usually drive around with wide ass split rims on them.

[dr_mat 0]

And if they did, would they be unable to move?

Your G60 has a power-to-wheels of 165bhp, Sandy, that's a good figure, better than a standard VR6 when it leaves the factory, but only by 1-2bhp.

[Sandy 0]

And if they did, would they be unable to move?

Your G60 has a power-to-wheels of 165bhp, Sandy, that's a good figure, better than a standard VR6 when it leaves the factory, but only by 1-2bhp.

 

thats with 17's too

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Well lets see now...,

 

I have RR printout's for my G60 which quote 245.5 BHP (crank) and 200.5 ft/lbs torque (177.8 BHP at wheels), and that was before I had the boost return kit installed and was running 9 x 16" wide-ass wheels when on the dyno and poss. dodgy gearbox. I would say 200 BHP at the wheels (when on standard 15" rims) is a good estimate at the moment. However, I have some other mods planned which will hopefully produce quite a bit more power and much more torque when they are all completed. Watch this space...,

 

And BTW...,

 

Quote:

 

I see the fantasy RR league is alive and kicking.

 

240bhp with 190lbft comes out at 6634RPM - on an 8v G60?

 

Must be one of those VTEC G60's or more likely the RR operator dialled in a shed-load of "transmission loss".

 

(I wouldn't say this too loudly if at all as the company that RR'ed my G60 are the most respected VAG tuners in Scotland and their Maha Power Diagnostics RR is calibrated fortnightly I seem to remember, so they are pretty much spot on with their figures)

 

Regards,

 

BigEastsideVWG60

[dr_mat 0]

The extra inch on the wheels costs you 23bhp??

Having said all that, 177.8 bhp at the wheels is a lot. I really can't believe it means you've got 245bhp at the crank tho, but hey in a world of imperfect statistics we'll have to make our own minds up. :)

[BigTartanJudge 0]

dr mat,

 

The printout of my RR run is available if anyone disputes these figures....., 8)

 

Also I think it's more like 1 inch diameter but an extra 3 (?) inches width which creates a helluva lot extra drag, hence the lower than expected "at wheels" BHP :D

 

Cheers,

 

BigEastsideVWG60

[MelG60 0]

AME site: http://www.ame-racing.de

 

 

Fahrzeug: Golf I 8V G60

Leistung: 250 kW (340 PS)

1/4-Meile Döllen: 11,51 sek. / 196 km/h Pretty fast i think 8)

[dr_mat 0]

dr mat,

 

The printout of my RR run is available if anyone disputes these figures....., 8)

 

Also I think it's more like 1 inch diameter but an extra 3 (?) inches width which creates a helluva lot extra drag, hence the lower than expected "at wheels" BHP :D

 

I do not dispute that you are quoting what you were given at the RR! The at the wheels figure I am sure is correct. (or within tolerance.)

 

All I am saying is that 70 bhp is a hell of a lot to lose to a pair of wheels. I mean, that's 50 kilowatts that we're saying is required just to turn the wheels round?!

 

I would just like to point out (through a drunken typing haze) that I am not trying to accuse anyone of lying, or faking it, or being unreasonable, or of just telling porkies... It's just physics. Prove I'm wrong. Please!

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Right then, let's think about this,

 

Average loss between power at crank / flywheel and power at wheels is roughly 10 % of 245 BHP is 24.5 plus give or take 10 BHP = roughly 35 BHP loss so would expect around 210BHP at wheels, therefore around 22 BHP loss (certainly not 70 BHP) by running very wide wheels (which increase drag considerably) and possibly a worn gearbox is pretty reasonable.

 

The key way of telling exactly how much a difference running my car on wide rims made to the RR figures would be to run / have run the car using standard 6.5 x 15" rims. However, I didn't have a set at the time the company was tuning my car,

 

Cheers,

 

BigEastsideVWG60

[Henny 0]

BigEastsideVWG60, I'd appreciate it if you'd edit your post up at the top to get the quote right... I just stated that you got 240ish BHP at a rolling road... I didn't make any comments on the accuracy or what I thought of those results. :|

 

I thought I'd add this in here rather than editing it myself so that there's no confusion as to why it was edited.

[dr_mat 0]

Right then, let's think about this,

 

Average loss between power at crank / flywheel and power at wheels is roughly 10 % of 245 BHP is 24.5 plus give or take 10 BHP = roughly 35 BHP loss so would expect around 210BHP at wheels, therefore around 22 BHP loss (certainly not 70 BHP) by running very wide wheels (which increase drag considerably) and possibly a worn gearbox is pretty reasonable.

 

The key way of telling exactly how much a difference running my car on wide rims made to the RR figures would be to run / have run the car using standard 6.5 x 15" rims. However, I didn't have a set at the time the company was tuning my car,

 

Agreed - IF the 245 at the crank figure was correct. But then you actually saw 177bhp at the wheels, so are you saying the wide wheels and worn box cost you the other 33 bhp? You'll excuse me for being sceptical, but that's a hell of a lot of energy.

 

What about the current generation Golf R32 with 18 inch wheels as standard? Does it only put 177 bhp to the wheels too, despite it's 245bhp *factory* engine output? I'd expect not - I'd expect nearer 210bhp, like you've shown above.

 

I understand it's not so easy to carry round a spare set of wheels just in case you have to prove something to a pedantic sod someday, don't worry.. :)

 

It *would* be interesting to hear from someone who *has* tried this tho - with an otherwise unchanged car. Anyone? Anyone got at-the-wheel RR figures for an R32-based car then?

 

* edit - doh, just remembered the R32 is 4x4, so we'd expect much higher transmission loss anyway... :roll:

[g-dub 0]

(ovalthemoon quote)ooohh!! anywhere i can get any details of his car so i can compare my G60 drag car to it, also any times that he or you get on the qtr mile.

 

looked at the site,

yeah good un, it's in frickin german, didn't get my GCSE today you know :lol:

any one good at translating, all i can work out is 11.sumit qtr mile'

 

oh well just wait till next easter when my car will debut, haven't got a scooby what it will perform like but it will be fun :twisted: