CTWG60

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Cheers

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Here is my evaluation of the CTN box (Please take into consideration my current engine mods) The Gearbox is working fine, shifting is good now but I couldn't say it was any better than the old box. I'll have to rebuild the shift mech under the gear stick I think. As for driving with this box, lets just say Wide Open Throttle acceleration in 2nd gear without any wheelspin (in the dry that is) to 6000+ rpm is my new favorite thing. I can feather the power in faster in 1st gear to about 5000ish rpm before getting wheelspin & having to shift into 2nd gear. But in 2nd gear I can give it FT and get no wheelspin which is fantastic ( repeating myself I know but it's that good). Third goes on for longer and feels pretty much the same as before except I can hit 100mph at a little over 6200rpm, again with no wheelspin. Good for the quarter mile That I'm hoping to do at Santa Pod in April. Fourth is good in slow traffic and feels somewhere between the old 4th and 5th, but is definately closer to the old 4th which is good. Fifth is fine at over 40mph but is noticably slower going from 40-60. Above 60mph is better but going from 80-100 the difference is less noticable. I've had no issues with the box itself mechanically. It feels youthful and stronger. Going from the condition of the origional release bearing it had done low milaege and being from a 1996 estate diesel car hasn't seen much over 4500rpm all it's life. I think it's done around 60k but I am guestimating. Will post QMTs if I don't fluff it off the start line.

Here is my quaife file just drop it into your quaife folder and overwrite yours and you can have a play.

I really don't like this box (BBM CAL). The change to 1st and 2nd does not seem enough and for road use I think it would be horrid but then I think it is a track box so 1st would not get used and 2nd would only be for hairpins so the shorter 3rd would be used alot and 4th is closer. I think I would have to work it all out though and my brain is beginning to hurt. But this graph shows you can get much the same effect using a CDA 16v box. If 5th is an issue for anyone with the CTN box the end plate could be removed and a CDA 5th fitted. More Numbers Gearbox:- CTN 1.9L D Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 28.274 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 175.298 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1061 RPM 40 MPH = 1415 RPM 50 MPH = 1768 RPM 60 MPH = 2122 RPM 70 MPH = 2476 RPM 80 MPH = 2829 RPM 90 MPH = 3183 RPM 100 MPH = 3537 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.061 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.550 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 97.393 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4428 RPM dropping 1772 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 136.355 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 4823 RPM dropping 1377 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 175.298 MPH ****************************************************************************************** Gearbox:- CTN 1.9L D CDA 16v 5th Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 25.518 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 158.212 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1176 RPM 40 MPH = 1568 RPM 50 MPH = 1959 RPM 60 MPH = 2351 RPM 70 MPH = 2743 RPM 80 MPH = 3135 RPM 90 MPH = 3527 RPM 100 MPH = 3919 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.061 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.550 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 97.393 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4428 RPM dropping 1772 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 136.355 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 5343 RPM dropping 857 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 158.212 MPH ******************************************************************************************

Quiet in work today so did these

Ahh Big Valve head Dohh! I'm waiting for the local VAG club to have a rolling road day to see what the actual power/torque characteristics my engine has currently. I have a good idea but it would be nice to know when exactly to change gear to get the best out of the car when doing the 1/4 mile, which I plan doing in the summer at one of the shows. My box was from a '96 Golf Estate Mk3 and has a lot less wear and feels a lot tighter. Trying to turn one drive flange while holding the other in place requires some serious effort. The old CBA box had little to no resistance left in the diff. So you are wanting to fit an ATB code box FD to your box? You would be better just getting an ATB box and having that rebuilt with the peliquin, or am I missing something?

You will have an early shift mech and cable bracket like mine. If you get a later box like the CTN make sure they leave the cable support bracket on the box and don't break the plastic driver on the shift mech like they did with mine. Make sure you get the balance weight aswell. I counted the splines and got my micrometer out on the input shaft just to make sure it was correct. I don't know what the power delivery is like on your engine but I assume you are happy with the a shift point of around 5500rpm. I don't know how the cam your running has affected the were the torque band is or max power etc. (What's a BV head?) I myself would shift at 5500rpm as any later just makes more noise and am running a 65mm pulley so boost is tailing off then if I remember rightly. But anyway the shift points would remain the same as the ratios are very similar.

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Don't get me wrong you can still get good acceleration above 50-60mph in 5th, well i do anyway, it's just not quite as quick below that level. But then I'm comparing it to the stupidness of not having to use the other gears with old my old box and the engines current level of tune. I'm using the quaife calculator. It has a graph button next to the calc button on the toolbar. I've pretty much have got the shifting adjustment sorted. Occasionally the odd numbered gears are a little notchy but have ask the v. experienced mechanic Tony who is doing all the horrible tricky jobs at the moment to take it for a test drive to fine tune the adjustment. When I get it back I'll do some 40-60 60-80 80-100 acceleraaation times in 4th and 5th as I have previous record of car performance with old gearbox in current tune.

The reason The CTN diff/box makes it look like a drastic change to the gearing is because it gives you VR like 1&2 but because it maintains the gear to gear ratios the drop in revs from 2nd to 3rd is not shortened and this has a sort of knock on effect with the speeds you can obtain in each gear. If you look at the difference in the angles on the graph for 3rd & 4th they aren't that different and therefore not that much harder for the engine to deal with for want of a better expression. Actually just realised I don't know what your current gearbox code is. Any Idea?

If on the other hand you had an ATB G60 box with it's 3.45 FD and wanted to fit a LSD then a vr 1 & 2 would be useful but third will stil be shortened. See below Gearbox:- Corrado ATB vr 1+2 Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Top Gear gives 24.582 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 152.408 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1220 RPM 40 MPH = 1627 RPM 50 MPH = 2034 RPM 60 MPH = 2441 RPM 70 MPH = 2848 RPM 80 MPH = 3254 RPM 90 MPH = 3661 RPM 100 MPH = 4068 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 36.740 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3653 RPM dropping 2547 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.354 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 4288 RPM dropping 1912 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 90.155 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4478 RPM dropping 1722 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 124.810 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 5077 RPM dropping 1123 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 152.408 MPH ************************************************************ Gearbox:- CTN 1.9L D Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Top Gear gives 28.274 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 175.298 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1061 RPM 40 MPH = 1415 RPM 50 MPH = 1768 RPM 60 MPH = 2122 RPM 70 MPH = 2476 RPM 80 MPH = 2829 RPM 90 MPH = 3183 RPM 100 MPH = 3537 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.061 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.550 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 97.393 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4428 RPM dropping 1772 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 136.355 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 4823 RPM dropping 1377 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 175.298 MPH ************************************************************ Gearbox:- Corrado ATB Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 24.597 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 152.504 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1220 RPM 40 MPH = 1626 RPM 50 MPH = 2033 RPM 60 MPH = 2439 RPM 70 MPH = 2846 RPM 80 MPH = 3252 RPM 90 MPH = 3659 RPM 100 MPH = 4065 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 32.091 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3454 RPM dropping 2746 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 57.596 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3962 RPM dropping 2238 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 90.142 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4476 RPM dropping 1724 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 124.862 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 5076 RPM dropping 1124 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 152.504 MPH ************************************************************

Only done 30 miles since I did the swap and a few other jobs as I was off on a family 4 day break, not in the corrado believe it or not. And now my car is having rear bushes, brake bias, braided teflon hoses and handbrake cables replaced and a few other bits and peices I really didn't want to do myself. So I've not been able to fully evaluate the difference. After I had increased the engines power I found that the torque band felt wider and started lower down the rev range. I could pull off in slow rush hour traffic in 3rd without touching the accelerator. I just raised the clutch slowly and off I went. I could drive to work and only had come out of 5th if I had to stop. It was fun but I knew it wasn't right, I knew I wasn't getting the best out of engine because I couldn't even get off the first throttle valve without wheel spin at the lights or at a busy T junction. Loss of traction in 3rd gear on corners was leathel. Really difficult to answer the aggressive question. The CBA box had more violent acceleration/deceleration as you changed gear in first and second but i think that had more to do with how quickly you had too change between them two gears. As a result I never really bothered racing off at the lights because I just felt silly doing it. I mean changing into 3rd at less than 55mph is pathetic but VW did it for a reason I suppose. I can get to 62mph faster now than I could previously but it doesn't feel as fast the gears go on for longer and there is less of a problem with feathering in the throttle so you don't loose traction. The agression of the box I suppose is that I, theoretically, could be doing 100mph in 5th @ 3500 rpm drop it down into 4th putting me at around 4500rpm and I can use the peak torque of the engine to accelerate onto 130mph in not much time at all. Now I consider that to be agressive. If I then changed into 5th there I am again at 4600rpm right on top of the peak torque doing 130mph. All theroetical of course. But the same is true at lower speeds if I want to overtake safely and therfore as quickly as possible and I am behind a 86 year old out for a country drive doing 40mph on country lanes I drop down into 2nd gear putting me at around 4000rpm and off I go to 60mph quick sharpish. I suppose what I am saying is you can enjoy the engines flexibility. But brobaly one of the best thigs about the CTN box is that it is basically a stronger CBA gearbox with a diff that stetches out the existing ratios so your shift points stay the same and you don't feel like you have to relearn when to change gear. Cruising in 5th is more relaxed but I'd say it is now more of an overdrive gear for long distance motorway driving. For a track day car i'd say you would need a closer ratio box if you were competing. Have a look at this BBM box's ratios. http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/VW_T ... _CAL_.html I don't think a VR 1st & 2nd into a CBA box with a 3.647 FD is a viable option it would make little difference to 2nd gear traction/acceleration and 3rd is noticably shortend in comparison to the other gears. Not to mention the expense. Take a look at the numbers again. Gearbox:- CTN 1.9L D Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 28.274 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 175.298 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1061 RPM 40 MPH = 1415 RPM 50 MPH = 1768 RPM 60 MPH = 2122 RPM 70 MPH = 2476 RPM 80 MPH = 2829 RPM 90 MPH = 3183 RPM 100 MPH = 3537 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.061 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.550 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 97.393 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4428 RPM dropping 1772 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 136.355 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 4823 RPM dropping 1377 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 175.298 MPH ************************************************************ Gearbox:- Corrado CBA Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 24.049 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 149.105 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1247 RPM 40 MPH = 1663 RPM 50 MPH = 2079 RPM 60 MPH = 2495 RPM 70 MPH = 2911 RPM 80 MPH = 3327 RPM 90 MPH = 3742 RPM 100 MPH = 4158 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 30.359 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 54.161 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 84.332 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4407 RPM dropping 1793 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 118.642 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 4933 RPM dropping 1267 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 149.105 MPH ************************************************************ Gearbox:- Corrado CBA-VR1&2 Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 24.049 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 149.105 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1247 RPM 40 MPH = 1663 RPM 50 MPH = 2079 RPM 60 MPH = 2495 RPM 70 MPH = 2911 RPM 80 MPH = 3327 RPM 90 MPH = 3742 RPM 100 MPH = 4158 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 34.755 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3652 RPM dropping 2548 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 58.998 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 4337 RPM dropping 1863 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 84.332 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4407 RPM dropping 1793 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 118.642 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 4933 RPM dropping 1267 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 149.105 MPH ************************************************************

There is nothing really wrong with the G60 ratios it's the differentials ratio that makes the power unusable especially when it has 100000 + miles and the breakaway torque is next to nothing. The CTN golf mk3 diesel box gives similar final drive ratios to the VR conversion in 1st and 2nd without the expense of stripping down two boxs and the expense of buying a much sort after VR box.

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