The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[KADVR6 0]

its a 100% genuine one still in the Garrett box, got it from out of the classifieds in a BMW mag that someone was going to use on he's M3 but he bottled it.

[herisites 0]

Good stuff Karl 8) Get it on man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

its a 100% genuine one still in the Garrett box, got it from out of the classifieds in a BMW mag that someone was going to use on he's M3 but he bottled it.

 

Excellent :salute:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've been playing about with the exhaust recently thanks to swapping some parts around with Leon :salute:

 

This middle silencer has been removed.....

 

 

...and replaced it with a resonator....

 

 

And I also fitted an ATP 3" High flow cat converter....

 

 

As it's a road car, I like it to look like, drive like and even SMELL like a road car! :D I really hated the stench of uncatalysed warm up fuelling and my mate said my car stank like his Dad's old Cortina! The exhaust now smells like a modern car and I like that :D

 

As cats only work at 14.7:1 AFR, I've trimmed the midrange fuelling accordingly :D

 

Any drop in performance? Well after binning the middle silencer there was a bit of an improvement in the top end, so losing the middle box worked. And after fitting the cat? Absolutely none. It's a complete myth that cats sap power. If the cat is appropriately sized to the engine's VE and turbo flow, there should be no drop in performance. Sure at 20psi+ big turbo boost pressures, there may be a little restriction, but in every day 8 to 15psi boost, it's perfectly fine. OEs use cats on turbo engines, so if they can do it, so can we :salute:

 

What else, erm, yeah my next mod....

 

Strictlydubs kindly blasted and powder coated a radiator support panel for me, and on top of that sits my US market A/C radiator, which will be my new chargecooler heat exchanger. I went with the US spec one because A) it's genuine VAG and B) because it's a bit beefier and flows more than the aftermarket Diava one the UK got :salute:

 

 

I might use the schimmel heat exchanger in addition to that if I can get both to fit, but the main reason for doing it is to make use of the fans in traffic and slow speeds and to enlarge the cooling area to reduce intake temps still further.

 

Tis all....

[Philmo 0]

Hey Kev

Good stuff, but In your sig - is the rotary bit the turbine side of yr turbo? :?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheers Philmo. That's the compressor side :D

[fla 9]

Thanks Kev, i did notice in your rough guide to a VRT install that your resevoir was still on the left, plenty of useful info in there btw 8)

 

Did you make up your own downpipe when you put the GT35 on too?

Mmm, where is the 'rough guide' ? I'm looking at a basic summary, just to get a handle on the basics and hardware requirements.

[Walesy 0]

KevDrivebywire really is a bad influence on the members of this forum, every time I look in here theres a few more VR6 owners going down the turbo route :twisted: :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

People come round to my way of thinking, eventually :lol:

[Philmo 0]

Cheers Philmo. That's the compressor side :D

Thanks Kev - it's like a curly version of Joni's Rotrex impellor!

Jonis Rotrex.jpg[/attachment:w1h0wc9w]

Do you have a shot of the turbine side?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, the Rotrex is pretty much just a turbo with a gearbox in place of the turbine wheel :D

 

Compressor wheel and scroll designs haven't really changed since the war, but big improvements in materials and turbine wheels have been made since then though :salute:

[carpoid 0]

Thanks Kev, i did notice in your rough guide to a VRT install that your resevoir was still on the left, plenty of useful info in there btw 8)

 

Did you make up your own downpipe when you put the GT35 on too?

Mmm, where is the 'rough guide' ? I'm looking at a basic summary, just to get a handle on the basics and hardware requirements.

 

 

Page 5 of this thread mate 8)

[fla 9]

Thanks Kev, i did notice in your rough guide to a VRT install that your resevoir was still on the left, plenty of useful info in there btw 8)

 

Did you make up your own downpipe when you put the GT35 on too?

Mmm, where is the 'rough guide' ? I'm looking at a basic summary, just to get a handle on the basics and hardware requirements.

 

 

Page 5 of this thread mate 8)

 

thanks Carpoid. Doesnt seem tooooooo complicated on the face of it, for the power returns you are likely to realise, famous last words eh?

[VR6Joni 0]

Cheers Philmo. That's the compressor side :D

Thanks Kev - it's like a curly version of Joni's Rotrex impellor!

Jonis Rotrex.jpg[/attachment:1bb6uvb7]

Do you have a shot of the turbine side?

 

Just for everyone else's info Rotrex use Holset Compressor wheels and housings, direct from a commoner garden turbo. The compressor wheel has the part number etched on the back just in case you need a new one, but the housing part number has been ground off.

 

On another note I've begun a guide to VR6 remapping at home, I've put a draft copy on the OddUnit How to's but still requires a fair bit of work. I will put it on here when it's complete!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Thanks Kev, i did notice in your rough guide to a VRT install that your resevoir was still on the left, plenty of useful info in there btw 8)

 

Did you make up your own downpipe when you put the GT35 on too?

Mmm, where is the 'rough guide' ? I'm looking at a basic summary, just to get a handle on the basics and hardware requirements.

 

 

Page 5 of this thread mate 8)

 

The most up to date build thread of mine is on the VR6OC.com - http://www.vr6oc.com/e107_plugins/forum ... php?139931

[Flexso 0]

Just back to super chargers, Obviously there are a couple available on the market ie, Rotrex, vortech, Z Engineering.

 

Is there a particular difference in performance? Is it more down to physical size?

[herisites 0]

Rotrex are generally the best for power, a 74 will get you ~300bhp, 84 will go to ~350bhp and a 94 can do over 400bhp! B5VWC on here is running very good power from a Rotrex charger. The Rotrex is also the smallest and the quietest by far.

 

Vortech's have been done to death so are well proven and are generally reliable, but not great for all out power. Z-Engineering I can't really comment on as never looked in to them, I think they're probs on par with the Vortechs power wise.

[Flexso 0]

Rotrex are generally the best for power, a 74 will get you ~300bhp, 84 will go to ~350bhp and a 94 can do over 400bhp! B5VWC on here is running very good power from a Rotrex charger. The Rotrex is also the smallest and the quietest by far.

 

Vortech's have been done to death so are well proven and are generally reliable, but not great for all out power. Z-Engineering I can't really comment on as never looked in to them, I think they're probs on par with the Vortechs power wise.

 

Its strange how Rotrex is physically the smallest yet has the best output. Does you find that all 3 all as easy to fit?

[herisites 0]

Its strange how Rotrex is physically the smallest yet has the best output. Does you find that all 3 all as easy to fit?

 

Yeah it is really, but it's because they are more efficient which is due to their roller design rather than big heavy gears like in the Vortech etc, also why they are much much quieter!

 

I can't comment on how easy the other 2 are to fit but the Rotrex wasn't too hard to fit. Neither will be hard though, they just bolt to a bracket and then you just attach the air intake pipes and belt etc to them. The Vortech's need tapping in to the sump however so a bit more work to do there, the Rotrex has it's own oil supply with a cooler, so you just need to mount that all somewhere neatly and then don't have to worry about changing the oil for a long time!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Its strange how Rotrex is physically the smallest yet has the best output. Does you find that all 3 all as easy to fit?

 

Yeah it is really, but it's because they are more efficient which is due to their roller design rather than big heavy gears like in the Vortech etc, also why they are much much quieter!

 

Indeed! With the Vortech and Z-Engineering, think of those Push-power toy cars with the big cog versus small cog and a flywheel to maintain momentum. Your arm moves freely and wants to launch it across the floor, but the gearbox in the toy car has a lot of resistance to turn and slows your arm down, but the little cog will be spinning like mad. So think of your arm as the engine crank and the toy car as the Supercharger. That's what's known as 'parasitic loss' and it can be monumentally huge on some chargers, as much as 100-120hp energy wasted just turning the sodding thing.

 

Mr Rotrex is different. He uses some kind of weird planetry roller thingy thing that only Joni fully understands and can get up to turbo speeds (100,000rpm), so the scroll casing and compressor can be smaller and still push a lot of air.

 

By comparison, spinning a turbo's exhaust turbine is like blowing as hard as you can through a little drinking straw, so neither method of compressing air is completely without flaws.

[carpoid 0]

I've been playing about with the exhaust recently thanks to swapping some parts around with Leon :salute:

 

This middle silencer has been removed.....

 

 

...and replaced it with a resonator....

 

 

And I also fitted an ATP 3" High flow cat converter....

 

 

As it's a road car, I like it to look like, drive like and even SMELL like a road car! :D I really hated the stench of uncatalysed warm up fuelling and my mate said my car stank like his Dad's old Cortina! The exhaust now smells like a modern car and I like that :D

 

As cats only work at 14.7:1 AFR, I've trimmed the midrange fuelling accordingly :D

 

Any drop in performance? Well after binning the middle silencer there was a bit of an improvement in the top end, so losing the middle box worked. And after fitting the cat? Absolutely none. It's a complete myth that cats sap power. If the cat is appropriately sized to the engine's VE and turbo flow, there should be no drop in performance. Sure at 20psi+ big turbo boost pressures, there may be a little restriction, but in every day 8 to 15psi boost, it's perfectly fine. OEs use cats on turbo engines, so if they can do it, so can we :salute:

 

What else, erm, yeah my next mod....

 

Strictlydubs kindly blasted and powder coated a radiator support panel for me, and on top of that sits my US market A/C radiator, which will be my new chargecooler heat exchanger. I went with the US spec one because A) it's genuine VAG and B) because it's a bit beefier and flows more than the aftermarket Diava one the UK got :salute:

 

 

I might use the schimmel heat exchanger in addition to that if I can get both to fit, but the main reason for doing it is to make use of the fans in traffic and slow speeds and to enlarge the cooling area to reduce intake temps still further.

 

Tis all....

 

Wow, missed all that somehow :confused4: I love what you've done here with the exhaust, and the whole engine for that matter, but that sounds like an awesome thing to do, i'd like to avoid the Cortina smell too if poss :)

 

Is there any chance you could be an internet hero and post a small video so i can hear it? I would expect its fairly quiet with that set-up, most VRT's i've listened to online i only hear exhaust noise, i want to hear more what the short runner set-up sounds like 8)

 

I'm off to get a Passat VR6 donor car to start my VRT fun next weekend, and meeting a guy in Brisbane who has a 4x4 Corrado that had a 16VG60 in it, to be replaced with a 24VT, should be interesting :)

[_leon_ 0]

get stuck in! good opportunity to take several months and work through the car - get it all clean and build it up the way you want. Expensive - but exciting!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Is there any chance you could be an internet hero and post a small video so i can hear it? I would expect its fairly quiet with that set-up, most VRT's i've listened to online i only hear exhaust noise, i want to hear more what the short runner set-up sounds like 8)

 

I don't have video equipment and even if I did I wouldn't know how to get it on the net!

You won't hear it anyway mate. All you get on internet clips is a thin tappety noise from the engine bay or loud booming from the exhaust. It's a very non-descript noise, it doesn't really sound of anything, just like a common or garden 4 pot really!

Unless it's a V8, engine noise doesn't interest me anyway :D

[carpoid 0]

OK, just curious to hear what its like compared to a NA VR really, but like you say, anything i hear online isn't going to sound like standing next to it anyway i guess.

 

V8's pffft, sick of the sound of them!! But yeah, they do sound good.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL, yeah I'll bet. When I was in Sydney in 1999, every other car was a V8 Ford Falcon or a Subaru Impreza. They all run on LPG aswell so there was a fragrant haze over the city.... quite a fresh smell actually... by petrol and diesel standards at least :D

 

Anyway, I digress.....

 

Yeah it sounds NOTHING like a VR6 at all. It doesn't even sound like a 6 cylinder engine!

 

I suppose the best way to describe the character difference is like comparing a normal V8 to a flatplane cranked V8. The former is throbby, lumpen and bassy - very distinctive noise. The latter is flat sounding, no real character at all until you thrash the t1ts off it.... Range Rover V8 versus Ferrari 360 V8 :D