The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[mic_VR 3]

No idea what the usual oil temp is for a VRT but from a normal oil temp point of view I wouldn't want to be on the high side of 120degC to often as if it gets too hot the oil starts to breakdown and not work very well.

 

How high are you seeing?

[big ben 10]

im seeing 114 degrees when thrashing hard in the hot weather, but then im slowing down as im paranoid it will rise... not sure if it would go higher, seems to only get to that point, normal driving i get 104 max. I have stage 3 fan on as well as soon as it reaches 96

 

edit: does it matter what oil aswell??

[Kevin Bacon 5]

My oil gets up to 102-104 on a thrash this time of year, otherwise 96-98 when cruising. I've got a Mocal in the bumper though.

 

Yes oil quality is important with turbo engines. Silkolene Pro S 10W/50 :wink:

[big ben 10]

My oil gets up to 102-104 on a thrash this time of year, otherwise 96-98 when cruising. I've got a Mocal in the bumper though.

 

Yes oil quality is important with turbo engines. Silkolene Pro S 10W/50 :wink:

 

thanks kev!! yeah marcus has been using silkolene 10W/50 and gave me some which i have used and will continue to use :D

 

im sure i have a mocal, could be wrong?? you think 114 is a bit high then?? it seems to jump from 104 to 114 quite quickly that i dont even realise, but maybe thats because im having too much fun :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Dunno mate, you'll have to ask Marcus about the Mocal!

 

114 is a tad high but I've seen worse, so I wouldn't worry too much, especially if it only goes that high when you're flooring it everywhere.

[StormchargedVR6 0]

My Oil is 104-106 on a thrash and drops down to 88-90 when cruising.

 

Coolent temps go up to 110 in traffic but go down to 80 on the move

[big ben 10]

thanks guys!!

 

well the car is in DGautotech next week so will get them to have a look over it. It does seem a little high to me, but sitting in traffic on a hot day (M25 :gag: ) its only 96 degree max, where as my mate in his G60 was about 114 plus, so thats not a problem at all, jus when im thrashing it it goes up that which worries me slightly

[StormchargedVR6 0]

thanks guys!!

 

well the car is in DGautotech next week so will get them to have a look over it. It does seem a little high to me, but sitting in traffic on a hot day (M25 :gag: ) its only 96 degree max, where as my mate in his G60 was about 114 plus, so thats not a problem at all, jus when im thrashing it it goes up that which worries me slightly

 

Its in good hands then mate 8)

[big ben 10]

yeah they have a new customer :grin:

[VR6Joni 0]

Although mine is rotrexed I'm seeing a similar sort of thing, in hot weather cruising at 80 my oil sits at about 100degC, but when an R32 went past it rocketed to about 110degC within about a minute, never used to get that hot that quickley. Although cruising at 60-70 and will drop to about 94-96 degC which it used to be able to manage at 80 easily.

Anyone recon its because the charger is permanently generating boost and constantly heating intake air although the boost is not being used just being recirculated????

 

On a separate note, when the engine is warming up my water seems to lead the way by 15-20degC (all the way up to 100degC) and I can't remember if this was how it was before my rebuild or could my stat be sticking a bit, this is more noticable in traffic but the water temp reading is affected quite a bit when your on the move?????

[VR6Joni 0]

EGTs for a nicely setup VR turbo as follows:-

 

Idle - ~ 370

 

50mph crusie - ~ 525

 

80mph cruise - ~ 700

 

Full boost - ~ 850-900

 

If you approach 1000 degrees, it's advisable to slow down for a while :lol:

 

Mine appears to be about 100degC above yours for all readings other than Full boost which is roughly the same, max I've seen is 930. Do you/anyone else recon I should be looking to get these down a bit?

FYI it's a rotrex setup with the EGT probe in one of the lambda holes on the six branch manifold (rear bank one)

[B5VWC 0]

Although mine is rotrexed I'm seeing a similar sort of thing, in hot weather cruising at 80 my oil sits at about 100degC, but when an R32 went past it rocketed to about 110degC within about a minute, never used to get that hot that quickley. Although cruising at 60-70 and will drop to about 94-96 degC which it used to be able to manage at 80 easily.

Anyone recon its because the charger is permanently generating boost and constantly heating intake air although the boost is not being used just being recirculated????

 

On a separate note, when the engine is warming up my water seems to lead the way by 15-20degC (all the way up to 100degC) and I can't remember if this was how it was before my rebuild or could my stat be sticking a bit, this is more noticable in traffic but the water temp reading is affected quite a bit when your on the move?????

 

 

that is about right im running my rebuilt engine and done around 800 miles over past 10 days it ran hot at first around 110deg but the more ive driven it and after a oil/filter change after 500 its now running around 94-98 at 70mph so seems right, water temps fall near 70 on runs and will build up near 100 when still but i have 2 spal fans keep cool it pretty well

[Flexso 0]

Sorry Guys this is completely off of your current discussion. But Im just intreged about the layout of a VR6 supercharged and had a couple of questions (I saw 3 supercharged VR6 at a meet last night!)

 

1. with a supercharger running 6 to 8 psi, do you need to change the compression on the pistons?

 

2. Is it necessary to have a recirc valve on these? Would you be able to use a dump valve?

 

3. Do you have to relocate the carbon canister (i think its called that) for the intake or can you just remove it?

 

4. At what psi is it essential to cool the air flow? (intercooler etc)

 

I know these are probably view simple questions for you forced induction boys.

 

Thanks

[Kevin Bacon 5]

EGTs for a nicely setup VR turbo as follows:-

 

Idle - ~ 370

 

50mph crusie - ~ 525

 

80mph cruise - ~ 700

 

Full boost - ~ 850-900

 

If you approach 1000 degrees, it's advisable to slow down for a while :lol:

 

Mine appears to be about 100degC above yours for all readings other than Full boost which is roughly the same, max I've seen is 930. Do you/anyone else recon I should be looking to get these down a bit?

FYI it's a rotrex setup with the EGT probe in one of the lambda holes on the six branch manifold (rear bank one)

 

Sorry mate, I don't know how I missed this.

 

My EGT Probe is approx 3" from the back of the exhaust valve on Cyl 5, where all 6 cyls converge. How far away from the head is your probe?

 

I wouldn't worry too much. Excessive boost EGT temp is of more concern than high cruise EGT. The only way to get temps down really is to increase the ignition advance and / or add more fuel. A big bore exhaust can help aswell if you've got an especially restrictive one.

 

I guess you're cruising at 14.7 AFR and around 33.5 deg timing, at say 80 mph? My EGT is a bit hotter since that original post too as I'm cruising leaner these days to save on fuel. At 80-90mph I'm seeing 770-830. I was slightly concerned at first but it's done that day in day out for over 2 years with no problems. I've got a freer flowing exhaust to put on at some point and I'll see if that reduces the amount of exhaust gas hanging around the EGT probe.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

1. with a supercharger running 6 to 8 psi, do you need to change the compression on the pistons?

 

Nope! The VR6 is a tank :D

 

2. Is it necessary to have a recirc valve on these? Would you be able to use a dump valve?

 

Factory managment - Yes/No. Standalone - No/Yes.

 

3. Do you have to relocate the carbon canister (i think its called that) for the intake or can you just remove it?

 

Relocate or remove, your choice. Most people remove it, but I would be inclinded to relocate it as the ECU is expecting to see it and adjusts the fuelling accordingly. You may need a non-return valve on the vacuum feed to the throttle body though.

 

4. At what psi is it essential to cool the air flow? (intercooler etc)

 

With all forced induction, it's desirable to maintain

[Flexso 0]

Thanks for the answer Kev,

 

So there is really not that much to it? I can see why its so popular to supercharged a vr6. :D

 

How did you find using a supercharged VR as your everyday car? Also hhen running 250 - 280bhp will the standard ecu work well with a remap, or would you need Standalone?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah you just stick the charger and injectors etc on and then get it mapped, it's as simple as that really!

 

No trouble at all with a S/C VR6 as a daily. That's the great thing about them, the original integrity of the engine is not disturbed, unlike a VR6 turbo engine which can potentially be a reliability nightmare.

 

Yep standard ECU works and can be remapped. OBD2 works better than OBD1 with boost and few people have converted their Corrados to OBD2.

 

I wouldn't recommend a standalone to anyone that wants a turn-key daily driver. There's a few compromises and drawbacks some people won't accept, but there are benefits aswell :D

[CoxyLaad 0]

 

I wouldn't recommend a standalone to anyone that wants a turn-key daily driver. There's a few compromises and drawbacks some people won't accept, but there are benefits aswell :D

 

I will second that. I had a mk2 20v turbo on DTA and although it was good, to live with day to day highlighted how good the factory ecus are. its just small things, but every day they start to piss you off. Just my experience of course!

[Flexso 0]

That makes thing even more tempting! How dangrous.

 

So in theory for a basic S/C set up can be had with the following,

 

Supercharger kit (brackets, pulley etc) plus plumbing inc recirc valve etc.

original ECU

barely modified sump.

And a shoe horn.... :D

 

That is a very small list. There must be other essential parts that you need?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not a huge amount more tbh!

 

In the early days of the Vortechs with the dodgy American software (maps) it was quite a pain in the arse kit and is why I converted to OBD2, but things have moved on since then and you can now just bung the kit on and get it over to Stealth for mapping!

[carpoid 0]

Newbie question here, with the Garret Turbos, what is meant by Free Float?? How does this work, does it still have a Wastegate :confused4:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Newbie question here, with the Garret Turbos, what is meant by Free Float?? How does this work, does it still have a Wastegate :confused4:

 

A google search of "Turbo free float" gives you - http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... onyms.html

 

You lazy sod :lol: But yeah, it means no internal wastegate, so you need an external one :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

And I thought Schimmel's cams gave good results but a 189whp gain is rather impressive!

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4544781

 

To save you reading all the posts, the car is a 12V VR6 turbo running Garrett GT42R @ 35psi, EIP big valve head etc etc.

 

Still making power at 8300rpms :cuckoo:

[big ben 10]

:shock: :shock: :shock: 35 psi :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

wow!!!!!!!! and all that extra power from cams?? surely this isnt real...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, and that's 35psi from a feck off great GT42R aswell!

 

If the puny little K03 from a Golf 1.8T could actually manage 35psi, the difference between the two would be like a light breeze versus a Hurricane :D

 

It does seem like a wild claim but and that the engine can't have been running right when producing the lower hp figure, but reading the posts, they are adamant the gains are purely from the cams.

 

Mind you, we are talking Hurrican grade 35psi though. Scaled down to our levels of gay boost, it's prolly around a 50-60whp gain, which is still damn impressive!