Engine Rebuild

[EDSTARVR6 0]

Hello everyone,

I recieved some bad news yesterday. My engine needs a rebuild. Took it to the garage because it was stuttering at low revs under accleration. Turns out the spark plugs are fouling with oil, very bad in one cyclider the plug had to be replaced. Sank my sorrows with a few pints of ol' speckled hen last night, but now I am back and positive. This is a positive opertunaty isn't it?

 

What I am after is all the knowledge people have of rebuilds. Is it worth it? How much? Have you had a rebuild? What are your experiences

 

What should I ask each company? What work should I make sure they do? Who have a good reputation?

 

I have used the search already and phoned Stealth. They quote £2700+VAT for full rebuild.

 

Phoned a company in Twickenham, they quote £1600+VAT. Why such a large difference?

 

Whats the best way to get a second opion?

 

 

ed

 

thanks all

[Roger Blassberg 0]

How many miles has the engine done? Could it not just be leaking valve guides/oil seals which are leading to plug fouling? A top end refurb may be all you need at this point.

 

I suggest that you get a bit more evidence of the need for a full rebuild before spending a few thousand pounds.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[EDSTARVR6 0]

it's done 123K. And is completly standard.

 

Having had the fouling plug replaced yesterday should I wait till the engine runs as a V5 again and get a second opinion? Or could this be dangerous wrt valves hitting pistons??

[edd 0]

Run it for a while and keep checking the plug in question to see how quickly its oiling up. My VR's just gone to Stealth for a full rebuild but plug 1 was oiling up in a matter of days turned out the bore was badly scratched. Ur not gonna do any real harm apart from maybe chucking a bit of oil through your CAT and maybe oiling up your Lambda (which was the case with mine). Like Roger said it could just be your valves etc.

 

Edd

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Valves will only hit pistons if

 

1) the timing gear fails,

2) a valve drops.

 

At 123K the timing gear is past its best and some on this forum would advise that it is due for renewal because they have been known to fail catastrophically.

 

This will cost about £900, including a new clutch which is usually done at the same time, or about £350 for the parts if you are a brave soul and do it yourself. Does it rattle badly from the gearbox end at 1000-1500 r.p.m. ? If so, you do need to consider it seriously.

 

Stealth do a cylinder head rebuild, clutch and timing gear complete for about £1500

 

That mileage is not enormous for VR6 engines by any means so long as everything has been looked after, especially oil changes, and it hasn't been overheated.

 

Maybe the plug looked fouled because it had developed a fault itself and was not burning any contamination off, but at that mileage a head rebuild would be indicated.

 

Have a compression test and oil pressure reading done to see if you are looking at serious bore and/ or crank bearing wear. Only then consider a total rebuild.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[EDSTARVR6 0]

Does it rattle badly from the gearbox end at 1000-1500 r.p.m. ? If so, you do need to consider it seriously.

 

 

There is a rattle that can be heard under acceleration. It's not looking good/sounding good is it?

[Roger Blassberg 0]

The irregular clattering you hear from the timing gear has been likened to that of marbles being shaken in a biscuit tin, and is usually at its worst when the revs are held constant in the range 1000-1500. There is also the possibility that you have one or more worn tappets rattling, but that tends to be a more regular ticking noise, akin to a sewing machine.

 

Do you know and trust the garage that made the diagnosis that a total rebuild is necessary? It's not possible to give a definite opinion over the wires, but all I can say is get a second opinion from a reputable specialist like Stealth. Southam isn't that far from you.

 

To be honest, I wouldn't go to VAG because, in my opinion, they are interested only in the new cars and will just do what is right for them, not necessarily for you.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[EDSTARVR6 0]

thanks for the advise Roger.

 

I gave up on VAG a while ago when they said it would be £75 to read off fault codes on a VAG-COM.

 

I take my car to lion garage. Their opinion was a total rebuild, but as they don't perform that type of work it was taken with a pinch of salt. This was also only based on the fact the spark plug was fouling (in fact the was no gap on one side of the plug).

 

Second opinion is definatley required, but do I have to wait for plugs to oil before it can be looked into?

[Dutch24V 0]

Hi EDSTARVR6,

 

My plug 6 is fouling up every 2-4000 km's depending on how I drive. It has been doing this for over a year now. I just replace the plug when it starts missing on that cylinder and keep and eye on the oil level religiously.

 

I know my headgasket is on it's way out and the valve seals/guides/piston rings too but can't justify a rebuild just yet. She doesn't smoke (that I can notice in the mirror anyhow) and she has +/- full power.

 

If your plug is getting fouled in a simular time frame and she isn't noticably smoking when you boot it and she still pulls like a train I personally wouldn't worry about it just yet!!

 

Dutch

[Kevin Bacon 5]

plug 1 was oiling up in a matter of days turned out the bore was badly scratched.

 

That's when it really does need a rebuild. If 1 or 6 (or both, 1 is most common to go first) are taking 1000s of miles to foul up, then join the club! Loads of em do it. Mine puffs blue on the overrun every now and then, but only on really hot days like this and when the engine is really hot. Otherwise it's OK. I reset the trip counter 1000 miles ago at my last oil change and it didn't move off the max, and my plug no 1 is fouling up (gradually) too.

 

Depends how fussy you are, if you want it perfect, get it rebuilt the first time you see smoke, otherwise hang on till it gets terminal.

[EDSTARVR6 0]

she still pulls well and I have never noticed any smoke. Whatever happens I have decieded to keep her going and not place a different engine in.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Second opinion is definatley required, but do I have to wait for plugs to oil before it can be looked into?

 

No, you don't have to wait for fouling to happen again because it is probably the result rather than the cause of the problem.

 

A good test for worn guides/seals is to run the car down a steepish hill in 3rd or 4th gear on a closed throttle; at the bottom of the hill, give it full throttle and if you see lots of blue smoke from the exhaust then it's valve guides/seals. That's because your engine sucks oil past them when revving fast against a closed throttle, and then burns it off once you open up.

 

By the way, how much oil is she using, and what grade? And, (excuse me if this is a cheeky question), are you using the correct plugs?

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[edd 0]

As a point plug number 1 was only fouling up in a few days after continuingly administering very long periods of overun (i was going through the paranoid and pissed off period :D ). But the blue smoke being emitted after these overuns wasn't just noticeable.....it was scary!! When Vince from Stealth ripped the head off he did say that bore 1 was on the limit and just a head rebuild would probably solve most issues. As it was, i decided i'd rather spend 3.5K on an engine thats hopefully total sorted (mechanically) for the rest of my ownership than 2k on an engine i still have to rip the plugs out every couple of thousand K and get into everyday knowing i might still need to spend loads getting the block sorted in the foreseeable future.

 

I do have something bugging me though. and some of you chaps might be able to steer me the right way for the future, I meant to ask Vince but i forgot.

 

Obviously the fact the 2.9 can get knackered bores is due to it being factory rebored and the effect that has on it running temp around bores 1 & 6. My block has now been rebored with oversized pistons so therefore should be even more prone to the same B**stard 2.9 curse. Whats the best and cheapest way of hopefully stopping this happen again while i still own it (which will be a long while considering its current costs). Extra oil cooler etc??

 

Sorry to hijack the thread Ed!

 

Edd

[Kevin Bacon 5]

As Vince might tell you, keep it running as cool as possible. You can use Redline Water wetter in the coolant, lower temp rad fan switches (or even bypass the VW senders completely and fit a dash mounted fully adjustable one), oil coolers, 10W/50 oil instead 10W/40 etc etc and don't thrash it constantly.

 

Get vince to show you the size of the cooling jackets in the block around cyls 1 and 6 and you'll see why they run hotter than the rest. They're half the size of the other jackets.....VW eh? :roll:

[EDSTARVR6 0]

Sorry to hijack the thread Ed!

 

no problem Edd.

 

By the way, how much oil is she using, and what grade? And, (excuse me if this is a cheeky question), are you using the correct plugs?

 

I get from full oil level to half in 500-1000 miles of driving (sorry I can't be more exact.

 

I use Synta (sp!) I think it's 10W-40 (but I'll check) was using castrol magnetec for a while.

 

Plugs are Bosch (they were changed at last major service 5000miles ago.

[Dutch24V 0]

Firstly change your plugs to the OE NGK ones and then check the time between having to replace the plug in question.

 

No other plug will do in the VR so best change and see what happens first.

 

Dutch

[EDSTARVR6 0]

A good test for worn guides/seals is to run the car down a steepish hill in 3rd or 4th gear on a closed throttle; at the bottom of the hill

 

 

finding Hills round this way is a bit difficult. I'll look for smoke under hard acceleration and on overrun like suggested by stealth.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Plugs are Bosch (they were changed at last major service 5000miles ago.

 

Which ones?

 

The general consensus is that NGK plugs, BKR5EKU or BKR5EKUP are the better ones. They are available mail order from http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk

 

MMmm, yes, that's a fair bit of oil. Try 15w-40 and see if that controls things a little better.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[Supercharged 2]

Yep, VW don't list BOSCH plugs for the VR, only NKG.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Bosch do do plugs for the VR and they're just as good as the NGKs, if not better actually.

 

I don't know the part number off hand but Stealth use them instead of the NGKs and they're fine.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Probably KR8LDC (or is it FR8LDC... ? I can't read my own scribbled notes) Probably been superseded by now anyway. They seem to change with the seasons and, guess what??, they always get more expensive.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[Garry 0]

Big Boyz Toyz in Thurrock £650 to have your original engine re-built. (Price for a G60)

 

I had mine done there and can highly recommend. They turn it arround in 7 days too. :)

 

Check out their website for full details

[dazzyvr6 0]

i went from the corrado vr6 plugs to the golf vr6 plugs and it stopped the fouling a lot,the c vr6 plugs are 4 point and the golf vr are 2 point,and it made a lot of difference

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Golf and Corrado VR6 plugs are identical and neiher VR6 have ever used a 4 electrode plug either.

[EDSTARVR6 0]

Anyone seen/heard/ or used enginesdirect.com? See the email from them below.

 

 

Thanks for your enquiry.

 

Fitted Engine - In our Twickenham Workshops

Exchange fully re-built engine (subject to terms & conditions) £1595.00 inc. vat

 

Engine oil / oil filter / gaskets are included in the price !!!

 

Up to 5 years / 60,000 miles parts and labour warranty (subject to conditions)

 

Low Cost Recovery of vehicle can be arranged if needed.

 

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If you would prefer to speak directly to one of our sales advisors, please call GARY on 0208 607 9060 quoting ref: S1908/060

 

For details of our Terms & Conditions + guarantees, please go to our web site http://www.enginesdirect.com where you may download copies.

 

 

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