German Plates Crackdown

[Musicman 0]

you knew it was coming :?

 

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93771

 

This is Joy from Dubmeister.

 

We've just been contacted by the DVLA crime reduction unit.

 

There's going to be a huge crackdown on use of German plates and other show plate types, with a push to enforce £60 fines, confiscation of plates and possibly confication of any private registrations allocated to your vehicle. ie if you've got A16V GT as a private plate, they'll remove it and force you back to whatever the original car's registration was.

 

Legislation is going through parliament at the moment and be in force next year that will TOTALLY BAN all non ligitimate number plates. The reasoning behind this is anti-terrorism and anti-crime reasons.

 

Whilst we are happy to supply 'show plates' (strictly for show use) and are allowed to by the DVLA, until this comes about we have to comply with the DVLA who are closely watching us. (And if you think buying from US or German suppliers, don't, because they are watching them too, as are the VAT inspectors from what we've been told).

 

If anybody has any queries or questions we are happy to answer them on the phone 01275 851069 or email mailto:[email protected].

 

We simply do not want any more dubbers collecting £60 fines and hassle.

The DVLA don't really want to see show plates on or off the road but for now they are powerless to prevent their use offroad at shows etc. But big brother is definitely on it's way. From what we gather, this is lead by the much talked about charges for use of certain roads like London's congestion charge and that's the reason for wanting plates to be read by roadside cameras etc.

 

German plates, etc with stadt stickers come up as foreign plates and don't get read by the roadside cameras for congestion charging. Now you see why they want them banned.

 

Additional info from Retro Rides

 

Hi Darren,

We wern't told what the bill was, just that it encompases other matter to do with anti terrorism and anti crime. Looks like 'chipped' plates are where its leading for road pricing purposes.

 

The person from DVLA told us they aren't expecting it to be in force until the summer but after that show plates will have to have the words 'for demonstration us only' emblazoned across them in grey in the background. The purpose of this is and to quote the DVLA representative

'to make show plates unsaleable'.

 

Show plates in regard to street is is same as is, except fines are now £60 not £30, and they are enforcing more heavily.

 

 

Hope that helps.

[Jim 2]

WTF?! How can they confiscate your private plate?! Surely an order to get it put back to legal / legible spacing, etc should be all thats required!!

 

And what the HELL is the anti-terrorism crap thrown in there for! Just when you think this country couldn't get any more ridiculous, they put something like this out there. Because we all know of course that terrorists drive round in modified VW's with German style show plates that read L8W VW on them!!!

 

It makes me so angry!

[bristolbaron 10]

great stuff. :?

its about time that people started aiming their hatred for the uk's police force towards our government.

[gradeAfailure 0]

lame...

[Walesy 0]

ahhh...but it's to stop the 'terrorists'......so it's ok.

[mr.ots 10]

WTF?! How can they confiscate your private plate?! Surely an order to get it put back to legal / legible spacing, etc should be all thats required!!

 

Jim - DVLA do state when you buy a registration mark that if you misrepresent it you risk it's confiscation so I guess people shouldn't be surprised if this happens. A bit excessive I know but they do make it clear from the off.

 

It's not only the spacing and font of the letters either, a street legal number plate must contain the name of the company that produced it and their postcode and the BS145 mark to indicate that the plate meets British Standards. It's not even legal to use sticky pads to fix the plate, it must be secured by screws.

 

Well at least my plates meet the majority of these requirements :lol:

[catch_twotwo 0]

Stupid as hell....... always was.

 

I bought a numberplate years ago for my wife.... M11 NX0 it means nothing.... unless you print the plate as M11NX O

 

Point and case... if it was sold as it spells M11NX then it should be able to spell M11NX else I want my £250 back for goods being unfit for the use in which they were intended.

[billinjah 0]

thing is most plod DO have better things to do and just wont enforce it.

[White2505 0]

 

Point and case... if it was sold as it spells M11NX then it should be able to spell M11NX else I want my £250 back for goods being unfit for the use in which they were intended.

 

Flogging a dead horse springs to mind I'm afraid.

Most number plate dealers list the plates exactly as they would appear ie in this case M11NXO normally YOU then ask the number plate maker to adjust the spacing to meat your requirements M11NX O

 

unfortunately the construction and use regs which the police refer to in these matters make it very clear about fonts/ spacings and fixings etc etc. In the eyes of the law you would be solely responsible for the offence in this instance as the number plate manufacturer under normal circumstances would supply the plate with the legal font and spacing.

 

most people get away with it because the police generally don't have enough time/ would rather be dealing with more serious crime than be chasing every vehicle with modified plates.

[Yandards 0]

thing is most plod DO have better things to do and just wont enforce it.

 

Yeah and you will need to find a member of the your local law enforcment before they can nick you for it.

 

This is pretty lame by shoving it through under 'anti-terror' measures when in reality all they want to do is stop people dodging congestion charges.

 

Mind you safety cameras aren't a revenue generator either :x

[crdo16v 0]

I recently spoke to a motor cop :fist: about German style plates having first admired them on a certain lovely local G60, he told me in no uncertain terms that they are a no, no. I certainly don't want to give them any excuse for pulling me over so would only consider having them for show use.

I guess that they may let you off with a warning first but was not told this.

[gradeAfailure 0]

tbh, i'll still be running them - in fact, i'm still considering getting white plates all round with German style spacing as well... if i get fined, i get fined, and i'll just pay it...

 

if it happens more than once a month though i think i might have to reconsider! :lol:

[catch_twotwo 0]

Well next year I'll be running German plates.... but then again I'll be in Germany so I guess that's fine ;)

[dr_mat 0]

This story mostly sounds like a troll to me ..

 

I can believe the crackdown on illegal spacing/font etc etc, but I can't believe the taking private plates away from you thing.

[chubbybrown 0]

I thought cops would be too busy to think about this or too warm in thier cars

 

chubbz

[ben16v 0]

i`ve been with german plates for 2 years no probs, yellow on back, but 2 of my mates with white on back got pulled in a week.

 

think it might be time for a change anyway, just gotta find some nice Legal plates

[Musicman 0]

The thing is, with the increased prevalence of ANPR cameras, it'll be easier to spot those plates which are illegible to them and they're more likely come after you. Every force in the country has dedicated ANPR intercept teams since October and I believe they have targets to meet, so they're less likely to give you the benefit of the doubt than you might get otherwise.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4431416.stm

 

North Wales Police Inspector Alan Brown said officers using an ANPR system could not know what defect in a registration place had prompted an alert until the vehicle had been stopped.

 

He said: "If the size, type and spacing of the lettering on the vehicle number plate are not in accordance with traffic legislation, then our ANPR computer will be triggered and officers will stop the vehicle.

 

"Obviously, once officers have stopped the vehicle, they have a range of options, from a verbal warning through to reporting for summons."

[Musicman 0]

My 2p: it's all part of a longer term strategy.

 

- It's in both the DVLA and Police interest for ANPR systems to operate effectively. Custom plates break it and they will stop you using them.

 

- Expect many more stories of this kind in the future: Number plate theft 'on the rise' as criminals take to stealing plates because the ones they have for stolen cars, etc. will be detected much more quickly. A parallel is how chip and pin has already started to move card fraud into the online arena.

 

- The DVLA/Police/DoT will then move for the introduction of legislation to mandate 'tamper proof' and RFID (radio) tags that can be read electronically. It may be that these are required to be mounted separately from the number plate itself to allow cross-checking of ANPR cameras and electronic sensors to prevent the use of forged/stolen plates. Anyone whose plate is unreadable by ANPR cameras, or there is a mis-match between the ANPR camera's reading of the plate and the RFID tag will then become a high-priority target for intercept teams. 'Show plates' provide a loophole by providing an excuse (as they see it) for real number plates to be removed from the car. Expect them to be limited in use to the motoring trade under special licence.

 

The GLA has already begun trials of RFID for London Congestion Charge zone with an eye to introduction in 2008/9 and UK Gov announced it would be conducting its own trials in October

[Tempest 0]

but I can't believe the taking private plates away from you thing.

 

Neither can I, as

 

a) i have one on my Mk1 Rocco and not giving it back :lol:

b) the DVLA themselves are making shedloads of money with auctioning off private plates, which they started doing 3 years ago, probably their main cash-cow

 

Tempest

[NickVR6 0]

Strap up, havn't we got bigger problems in this country than nit picking on number plates. Why is it this country allways treat motorists like lepers, and give pikey fecks a hand out and real criminals a pat on the back and a form so they can suu the guy that lumped them one!

 

These imigrants streaming in must really be thick! They'd be much better off stopping off somewhere else in europe these days. Im tempted to put german plates on my car now just so i can have a chat with mr plod and tell them what i think.

[gradeAfailure 0]

Didn't the AA and the RAC used to be more than just a breakdown service? They were organisations that fought for the rights of the motorist... In America, their Automobile Association (or whatever it's called) actively fights the government on issues that affect motorists - they managed to get Gatsos banned because in their constitution you have the right to be confronted by your accuser if being accused of a crime. Can you imagine any organisation over here fighting the motorist's corner like that? Hell no... The poor car driver is one of the last social groups that it is acceptable to target, and I think it's about time it stopped. Public transport is overpriced (went to London on Sat - £15 for a return Travelcard! :shock:) and doesn't suit the majority of peoples travel needs. They need to get freight back on the railways and free up the roads. They need to...AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

[/head explodes]

[/rant over]

:lol:

[Taggart 0]

The thing is, with the increased prevalence of ANPR cameras, it'll be easier to spot those plates which are illegible to them and they're more likely come after you. Every force in the country has dedicated ANPR intercept teams since October and I believe they have targets to meet, so they're less likely to give you the benefit of the doubt than you might get otherwise.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4431416.stm

 

North Wales Police Inspector Alan Brown said officers using an ANPR system could not know what defect in a registration place had prompted an alert until the vehicle had been stopped.

 

He said: "If the size, type and spacing of the lettering on the vehicle number plate are not in accordance with traffic legislation, then our ANPR computer will be triggered and officers will stop the vehicle.

 

"Obviously, once officers have stopped the vehicle, they have a range of options, from a verbal warning through to reporting for summons."

 

 

So the police are going to stop EVERY foreign car that goes past their ANPR machine?

[Yandards 0]

but I can't believe the taking private plates away from you thing.

Neither can I, as

 

a) i have one on my Mk1 Rocco and not giving it back :lol:

b) the DVLA themselves are making shedloads of money with auctioning off private plates, which they started doing 3 years ago, probably their main cash-cow

 

Tempest

 

Sorry guys as Mr Ots has already pointed out, when you 'buy' a private or personal plate from the DVLA you mearly become the registered keeper. No-one in this country 'owns' a private plate they all belong to DVLA and we lease them. If we break the conditions of the lease by not following the requirements to display the correct type of number plate, then they can take the reg mark back.

 

Got to agree with MM as well, this is all just part of a long term strategy to ensure that they can start adding extra black boxes etc to your car so they know where you are, who you are and how quickly you got there :(

[Musicman 0]

So the police are going to stop EVERY foreign car that goes past their ANPR machine?

 

Indeed. That's a fundamental problem with the logic of the proposition. Unless, of course, either

 

- the ANPR cameras are quite capable of reading 'foreign' plates and it's just an opportunity to enforce the rules that already exist, coincidentally improving their performance figures for FPNs.

 

- the ANPR cameras can't reliably read non-standard plates, but these rejects are sent for human intervention to determine what the number is. If they can eliminate unreadable British plates from the roads, then the manpower required for this task may be substantially reduced and they can be confident that an unreadable plate is either foreign or dodgy in some way.

 

I spent my time on the train to work this morning leafing through the Association of Chief Police Officers' strategy document published earlier this year: ANPR Strategy for the Police Servoce [sic] - 2005/2008 - "Denying Criminals the Use of the Roads". It's enlightening reading.

 

2.2.7     Data Protection Act (DPA)

A protocol for handling ANPR data to ensure compliance with the Data Protection Act has already been published. It has recently been amended to extend the retention period for ANPR data from 30 days to 2 years. Debate is currently underway to consider whether this should be further extended, particularly as the National ANPR Data Centre is planned to retain data for five years.

 

Five years? :shock:

 

Here's where they say they want to get vehicles electronically tagged:

 

2.4 “Continue to develop and exploit Technology to support ANPR activities”.

 

·       Promoting the development of Electronic Vehicle Identification (EVI) technology.  EVI offers the potential of supplementing and enhancing ANPR.  EVI will utilise the same back end and business processes as ANPR (see appendix 1, para 22)

 

More detail on this is given in section 22

 

22.  Electronic Vehicle Identification

Although not within the current AIITS Programme, Electronic Vehicle Identification (EVI) systems are something that the ANPR Steering Group is seeking to support, as they will work in conjunction with existing ANPR technologies. Although such systems will require different front-end reader technology, they will utilise the same back end technology and business processes as ANPR (e.g. transmission from roadside, matching to databases, intercept capability etc). Whilst EVI technology could be rolled out nationally within 3 years, using a microchip placed in number plates, this option is not currently favoured by Government. As such real usage of EVI systems is probably 5-10 years from being a practical reality, as a complement to registration plate identification.

 

It also sets out their intention "to create a comprehensive ANPR Camera and Reader infrastructure across the country, to stop displacement of crime from area to area and to allow a comprehensive picture of vehicle movements to be captured". They've realised with experience of using CCTV and Gatsos that putting cameras in just moves the problem elsewhere, so the solution is for it to be everywhere. There will be no escape from their watchful eye. Jeremy Bentham's Panopticon in a modern form.

 

This will involve the use of CCTV/ANPR cameras owned by 'agencies' such as Local Authorities and "Commercial and retail sites (especially garage forecourts)". Of course, the garages and supermarkets will get something in return "Ultimately all agencies will feed their ANPR read data into the NADC and be able to extract all other agencies data in return." It's a data swap between various public bodies and the supermarkets, petrol stations, parking companies, etc.

 

For a feel for how this may operate in practice, check out this article in The Daily Mail (not my usual reading, but it's worth a look).

 

Of course, following the model established by Speed (sorry 'Safety') Camera Partnerships, there will be "Proactive Marketing" of ANPR [section 28]:

 

A National ANPR Media Strategy, agreed with the Home Office and updated from time to time, is available.  Home Office Ministers have launched public versions of the major evaluations of Project Laser undertaken by PA Consulting. ANPR should be regarded as a good news story for the police service and police forces are encouraged to pro-actively market ANPR successes within their local media, without disclosing detail of tactics.

 

[emphasis added]

 

They've already made much publicity of the fact that they apparently tracked the car involved in the Bradford shooting all the way to London using ANPR. More feel-good stories and sloganeering about "Denying Criminals the Use of the Roads" coming to a screen near you soon :roll:

[ZippyVR6 0]

I am not a criminal, I drive a little above the limit and use German plates, I will not be made to feel like I am what is wrong with this country.

 

As a result I will continue to run the plates, for the same reasons I got them, and the car for that matter. I don’t want to be the same as everyone else.

 

If I get pulled by a desperate and bored copper who is needing to do some paperwork, then I may consider changing my plates back to standard spec,

 

Having said that I do keep a set of originals and a doughnut in the boot ready to appeal to any copper that I will change them back ASAP,