German Plates Crackdown

[dinkus 10]

remember, it won't be long before there's black boxes in cars - at which point, I'm bl**dy emigrating...

 

Or hacking it... :twisted:

[Tempest 0]

Or hacking it...

 

Yup :lol:

 

Still can't believe the aspect of bein illegal when running a private plate, as at the moment the DVLA are still making shedloads of money out of selling these private plates. What is the main reason? Well, because people want to display these plates on their cars whilst driving them. If this all of a sudden became illegal, then who would still want to buy such a plate? Far fewer people than now. That means severe loss of income for the DVLA.

 

Tempest

[White2505 0]

ahhh, the enjoyable dichotomy of the MOT.

 

It checks road WORTHINESS not road LEGALITY

[Musicman 0]

dr_mat, do you find it as weird as I do that the LAW dictates the font, but an MOT doesn't? The MOT just states that it has to be legible... :|

 

I imagine there has been a quiet re-definition of the word 'legible' to mean 'readable by our computer system'.

[White2505 0]

personally I think it highly unlikely they'll stop you using private plates.

As others have pointed out DVLA make too much money out of it.

The problem is when these private plates are monkeyed around with to make them appear to read differently through the use of illegal fonts/spacings, at this point the dvla have the option of withdrawing that number from circulation.

[Musicman 0]

^^^ what he said.

 

On the point of legibility, check these out, posted by someone on No-Rice.

 

German

 

British

 

To my eye, the German one is far more legible.

 

The British plate is a crime against typography. WTF is going on with the kerning between the N and the 8?

[mr.ots 10]

That is not the specified spacing on the british plate, that's why it doesn't look right and is harder to read. I also think the 3D font, which is legal, makes it less legible.

[dr_mat 0]

3D fonts, along with serifs, should be sent to the font bin in the sky, thankyouverymuch ..

[RW1 0]

I also think the 3D font, which is legal,

 

I got pulled into a mobile MoT test station, bit like a Grand Prix with 5 of them jumping at the car to do the tyres, exhaust and lights. Got a pink warning ticket...... 3D letters. Unless it has changed in the revised leaflet V796 ( the defining plate size & shapes, layout, spacing and font document ) since 1999, it's solid black only.

 

The plates were only a day old as well although they replaced old ones with 3D which had passed at least 5 MoTs.

 

Mr Plod present as a minder to my pit team was very helpful with his expert guidance.

[Musicman 0]

According to the DVLA web site, they're legal

 

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/faq/faq_number_plates.htm#24

 

Are 3D characters allowed?

 

Registration numbers and letters must be black and non - reflectable. 3D characters are allowed provided the number plate complies with the British Standard specification (BS AU 145d).

 

Unless they mean literally 3D - i.e. raised characters, as in a pressed metal plate or early 1970s number plates?

[Nick 0]

as in a pressed metal plate or early 1970s number plates?

 

Damn. :(

[corradostorm 0]

The number plate 'surrounds' should be legal in the UK. They are widely used in Europe and meet stringent TUV approval.

 

I've also heard they can help number plate recognition by providing a boarder for the number.

 

They were introduced as a response to new laws that say manufactures could not advertise on the actual plate.

 

The DVLA cannot stop you making your own show plates and using them on private land. (see your local hardware store for Vinyl numbers).

 

Personally, i'd rather run normal UK plates and i'm all for greater policing of our cars.

 

If some scum takes it I want it back as soon as!!

[Polo Classic 0]

You guys complaining about 60 quid fines? Here in Norway I would be charged with fraud an could face up to 2 years in prison for the same stunt

[bristolbaron 10]

A sample of what's to come from the DVLA, courtesy of Paul from Dubmeister

 

How your show plates will look in the future:

 

 

Guys, if i turn up at a show with a plate saying A 106 PUG feel free to shoot me okay. :snipersmile: :snipersmile: :snipersmile: :snipersmile: :snipersmile: :snipersmile: :2gunfire: :2gunfire: :2gunfire:

[Campaign 0]

Also, the following should be noted... (from DVLA Web-Site)

 

MANDATORY CHARACTER FONT

 

From 1 September 2001 all new number plates must display the new mandatory font. Combined with the new format registration mark, number plates will become clearer and easier to remember.

Character fonts

 

Number plates fitted before 1 September 2001 need not be changed provided the character font used is substantially the same as the one shown above.

 

Number plates must be replaced if they have been customised with:

 

* Stylised letters and/or figures such as italics

* Number plate fixing bolts that alter the appearance of the letters and/or numbers

 

So I think, actually, my Campaign plates should be okay as 1) they were fitted before 2001, and 2) they are "substantially" the same as the standard ones :)

[16vradge 0]

I've just ordered german plates, gunna have stadt stickers on front but leave rear without. I ran a car with incorrect spacing on front, but correct on rear before and had no problems. Coppers aren't likely to spin their car round and chase you if your fronts wrong, and if they follow you and the rears right then your ok.

 

Dude at dubmeister said he spoke to DVLA and german font is legal, if plate doesn't have D band, as it complies with TUV which is equivalent to MOT and we are all part of the EU.

[corradostorm 0]

 

Dude at dubmeister said he spoke to DVLA and german font is legal, if plate doesn't have D band, as it complies with TUV which is equivalent to MOT and we are all part of the EU.

 

That can't be true. Someone ring up the DVLA.

[Yandards 0]

On a slightly different note and one that is bound is spark a bit more controversy on here:

 

It is legal to use the old style pressed metal black plates with silver lettering in this country - if your car was registered before 1973 that is.

 

I wonder if the ANPR cameras can read the old style plates?

[Musicman 0]

It is legal to use the old style pressed metal black plates with silver lettering in this country - if your car was registered before 1973 that is.

 

I wonder if the ANPR cameras can read the old style plates?

 

AFAIK, the short answer is no, you can't, certainly not if you're fitting new plates. I'm slightly vaguer on the point if you've had the same plates on since 1974, though it's likely to attract the attentions of the police.

 

As for the second bit, quite possibly, but I'm sure the police won't want to divulge that kind of operational data :)

[Musicman 0]

 

Dude at dubmeister said he spoke to DVLA and german font is legal, if plate doesn't have D band, as it complies with TUV which is equivalent to MOT and we are all part of the EU.

 

That can't be true. Someone ring up the DVLA.

 

Since they seem to have made it public by mentioning it to 16vradge... It may be true.

 

It was my suggestion to Paul at Dubmeister last week that he check it out because the 2001 regulations actually have an optional spec.

 

Section 10, Paragraph 3.

 

(3) Subject to paragraph (4), in the case of a vehicle first registered on or after 1st January 1973 but before 1st September 2001 the registration plate must conform either to the requirements set out in Part 2 of Schedule 2 or to the requirements set out in Part 1 of that Schedule.

 

 

Part 2 of Schedule 2 is an optional specification says

 

The plate must be made of reflex-reflecting material which, as regards its construction, colour and other qualities, complies with the requirements of -

 

(a) the British Standard Specification for reflex-reflecting number plates, published on 11 September 1972 under the number BS AU 145a[14], or

 

(b) any other relevant standard or specification recognised for use in an EEA State and which, when in use, offers a performance equivalent to that offered by a plate complying with the British Standard specification

 

[emphasis added]

 

There's a similar provision in Part 1 of Schedule 2 for vehicles first registered after 2001 and for post-1973 vehicles with new plates being fitted after September 2001 (which is the 'Subject to paragraph (4)' exception in S.10, para 3.)

 

Dubmeister are already onto the DVLA about this.

 

The DVLA have conceded in correspondence that it indeed may be legal to use German plates without a 'D' country identifier on UK registered vehicles. They're arguing that the German DIN spec hasn't been proven to be 'equivalent' performance to the BS so there's an element of doubt. They've got their legal team looking at the wording and are obviously spooked because it's been kicked upstairs at least twice now that we're aware of.

 

My guess is that both the UK BS and German DIN specs are derived from a common EU standard, which would make it rather hard for them to deny that they're equivalent.

[Yandards 0]

AFAIK, the short answer is no, you can't, certainly not if you're fitting new plates. I'm slightly vaguer on the point if you've had the same plates on since 1974, though it's likely to attract the attentions of the police.

 

No it is legal, you can fit brand new old style plates if your vehicle was registered before 1973. It's a get out clause for owners of older cars, as modern yellow/white plates would like hideous on things like an e-type (Although the plate when mounted across the power bulge on the bonnet is illegal.)

 

As for the 1974 date you will be required to have yellow/white plates as that was around the year the plates were brought in and made a legal requirement, although according to campaign's earlier post you would be entitled to use the raised 3d letters that were popular back then.

 

Oddly the classic car fraternity seems to have a lot more political weight than the 'modern' car groups; just another example of an active minority I suppose.

[rado-steve 0]

wow! my brain hurts now from reading all that :)

[Guest]

I am not a criminal,

 

But you are, that's why they can issue a £60 Fixed Penalty Notice. :?

 

If I get pulled by a desperate and bored copper who is needing to do some paperwork, then I may consider changing my plates back to standard spec

 

You'll get pulled by a copper whose job it is to go after ANPR violators. His motivation will be that revenue gained from your FPN is hypothecated income for the local Police Force, er 'Service'. Even if you have regular plates in the boot, it's too late.

 

From the ACPO document again

 

Whilst hypothecation from ANPR activity will never fully fund all of a force’s ANPR activity, it can be useful in assisting developments. From April 2005, this facility is available to all forces. Under the hypothecation scheme, 2% of income will be used to fund national support to ANPR developments, whilst the rest will be retained by forces. As the level of potential income is unlikely to exceed the full costs of ANPR activity, it is unlikely any of the income will be passed on to the Treasury. As such, hypothecation under ANPR will not be used to raise central government income but will all be directly reinvested in fighting crime.

 

All Forces are urged to take this up, under Project Laser 3. In doing so, forces will be assisted by ongoing national developments and by good practice learnt from Project Laser 2. This should ensure increases in both the level of tickets issued and the income recovered from tickets issued.

 

As such forces should aim from April 2005 to:

 

• Issue at least 310 FPNs per full time equivalent intercept officer per year (the average issued under Laser 2)

• Recover at least 50% of the face value of tickets (the average under Project Laser 2 was 42%, with best performers reaching 60% and the worst only 20%).

 

In setting this relatively low target level for income recovery, it is recognised that ANPR is targeted on the most Prolific Offenders. This group involves those most likely to elect a custodial sentence rather than pay a fine.

 

The treasury has made it clear that unless income levels are higher under Project Laser 3 than under Project Laser 2, the scheme may be terminated in March 2006. It is crucial the service maximises this source of income now or face losing it. Forces which elect not to engage in hypothecating ANPR income risk endangering the future of this facility for the service as a whole.

 

[ their emphasis, not mine ]

 

The Home Office Study evaluating ANPR showed that there was a (disappointing) return on investment of around 10%. It's up to the Police to show they can do better than that if they're going to keep using the system and develop it.

 

At the end of the day this is going to catch the motorist that makes a mistake, and commits a petty offence.

 

Someone spoke of the AA not sticking up for the driver.. Then how about we construct a case and then forward it to an agency like the AA or RAC.

 

I think the American system is a very good starting point, 'having to be confronted by the accuser'

Reliability in the system has to be drawn into doubt, Stolen Plates etc

[Guest]

P.s. Think be the type of car you drive too. Corrado drivers excluded from persecution

[Rob_B 0]

what a load of rubbish!!

im sure these cameras will be able to read all sorts of plates, old, new and with or without illegal lettering. only way to stop them reading your plates will be to either not have any or cover them in mud and dirt!

gotta love the filth, sorry police though, they do do a cracking job of looking after the crime in the country!!!!

this country is a joke!