Fanjita 1 Posted June 6, 2012 Ian, I have just started a definitive thread for this very topic, I'm afraid the news isnt good. I also have a BUB engine which I bought as a job lot with Mk4 electricals. The ECU will run the engine but will throw a cam sensor fault due to differences in the old and new sensors. Please read the thread to get more info, I too had the plugs not fitting, does it almost look like the cam sensor plugs will fit but don't? That's the exact problem I had, I've managed to source a Mk5 engine loom since which fits fine, now its just the ecu I'm after. Cheers ---------- Post added at 8:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 8:15 AM ---------- Kev, Any chance you have a core plug spare? Will pay for it just decided its a good idea to blank it off! ---------- Post added at 8:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 8:16 AM ---------- Also Ian, this is information I gathered from Vince @ Stealth; Re the SAI relay, the ECU looks for indications the relay has fired when a signal is sent to turn on the SAI pump. If this indication is not present, the ECU won't be as adaptive as before, meaning possibly higher fuel consumption. It's not as serious as 'limp home mode' but if you want a fully adaptive ECU (as it should be) you have to create a dummy load using a relay for this and 1 or two other systems I believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1990 0 Posted June 6, 2012 Ian, I have just started a definitive thread for this very topic, I'm afraid the news isnt good. I also have a BUB engine which I bought as a job lot with Mk4 electricals. The ECU will run the engine but will throw a cam sensor fault due to differences in the old and new sensors. Please read the thread to get more info, I too had the plugs not fitting, does it almost look like the cam sensor plugs will fit but don't? That's the exact problem I had, I've managed to source a Mk5 engine loom since which fits fine, now its just the ecu I'm after. Bummer, I also heard you can swap the cam sprocket but thats a job in itself. Are you OK to still use your mk4 ECU to VR6 fusebox section of loom with the mk5 engine loom and mk5 ecu? I'm gutted to have found this out, does anyone have a decent mk5 wiring diagram? I have a mk4 one but wanted to compare the 2 in relation to the plugs that dont fit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fanjita 1 Posted June 6, 2012 Yeah I was provided similar options. The two experienced folks I asked (to get an unbiased second opinion) both said the easiest way is to swap the head for a mk4 one. As I have reason to believe my engine is a minter (sub 10k miles) I really don't want to fiddle with the engine. So I'm going with option #2 of buying the right Mk5 electricals. Should get some of it back by selling a full Mk4 wiring loom for an R32 conversion and so will you. You won't be pleased to learn that I have spent 2 weeks so far searching for an ECU, and it wont be any easier for me now there's another person after one! The fusebox loom I am unsure of, I am really hoping so as I could only locate the engine side loom from a mk5. I have asked Kev (Fishwick) to come help with a bit of the wiring so we will add all the findings to the other thread (Mk4/5 differences). I would appreciate any findings you have in there too, it really was news to me when I learned I had the wrong electrics, hopefully the thread will help others in the future. I have the pinouts for the MK5 ECU (courtesy of Vince) which I can share, I am still a bit daunted by all this wiring though. As we are both tackling the same job at the same time, i think it would be prudent to share all findings! I'm yet to fit the new engine but the old one was removed last night so it'll be a matter of days. Cheers, James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1990 0 Posted June 6, 2012 I'll plan to get mine running as it is now I and then think about the mk5 ECU (I got one with the engine and sold it for peanuts). My engine has 19,??? miles on so I don't fancy touching that either. Any chance you could e-mail me the mk5 wiring diagram to [email protected] ? Cheers. This is where i'm upto with mine, i'm also upto page 36 of this thread, ha ha!!: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fanjita 1 Posted June 6, 2012 Ok I'll mail you it when I get home mate. Looks good, mine's just a big hole at the moment but I'm going to clean the bay up a bit before swapping and probably get the old loom out first. I think I've got the hang of the wiring procedure now, just a case of keeping the old plugs and loom for any modules that aren't being replaced by MK5 kit. Are you using the MK5 ECU to manage the aux water pump or keeping it with the fan controller? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) some details about SAI deletion here. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4948292-SAI-delete-questions-and-sugestions Im looking into this as it may be the reason for mine not adapting. how do you know if its not adapting as I was told by Vince so wanted to see if I've now fixed this issue or not. Send me the pin outs too please mate. Edited June 6, 2012 by quicky1980 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fanjita 1 Posted June 6, 2012 some details about SAI deletion here. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4948292-SAI-delete-questions-and-sugestions Im looking into this as it may be the reason for mine not adapting. how do you know if its not adapting as I was told by Vince so wanted to see if I've now fixed this issue or not. Send me the pin outs too please mate. Not sure Sam, I'm only going on what I've been told by vince. I don't know if there's any way VAGCOM can tell you if it's non adaptive. The trouble is this would only happen when it attempts to fire up the SAI pump so it probably will say its adaptive at idle anyway? I guess the best way is to monitor it with use, maybe that bluetooth obd plug and the phone app would give you that info on the fly? Sorry I really don't know enough to say, this is all a (huge) learning curve for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1990 0 Posted June 6, 2012 Ok I'll mail you it when I get home mate. Are you using the MK5 ECU to manage the aux water pump or keeping it with the fan controller? Nice one, I might even try and make a list of the 121 pins on each ECU to see what is different. I'm upto page 47 now and notice Phatvr5 mentioned the cam thing on about page 5. Mines a mk2 and was previously a VR6, I didn't have the 2nd water pump plumbed in and just ran the fans off the rad switch. I think the Mk4 and mk5 ecu's control the 2nd after run pump on the R32 engines so I hope to relocate it to the back of the head and hope that the ECU will run it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mat-mk3 0 Posted June 6, 2012 Regarding the aux water pump. There is a black/red wire in the T121 plug that runs this from the Mk4/5 ecu. What I did was remove this wire and run it to my MK3 VR6 fan controller aux output. So I'm running a VR6 fan controller for the fans and aux pump to the 4mo engine. All works fine and the aux pump runs for 10mins after ignition off. Fans work on all speeds also. ---------- Post added at 5:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 5:25 PM ---------- Regarding the aux water pump. There is a black/red wire in the T121 plug that runs this from the Mk4/5 ecu. What I did was remove this wire and run it to my MK3 VR6 fan controller aux output. So I'm running a VR6 fan controller for the fans and aux pump to the 4mo engine. All works fine and the aux pump runs for 10mins after ignition off. Fans work on all speeds also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted June 7, 2012 Kev, Any chance you have a core plug spare? Will pay for it just decided its a good idea to blank it off! Yeah PM me your address and I'll send you one. I haven't been in work this week, so will post them out tomorrow hopefully. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted June 7, 2012 Me too please Kev :norty: Ill cover postage if required. Do you still have my addy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VW_OwneR_85 2 Posted June 7, 2012 started preping my 2.8 today, removed clutch n fly wheel, removed SAI valve? and made a blank plate out of aluminium, its looking rather cool ;) . now what is this box all about has loads of vacum hoses going to it ? can this just be removed and put back how the 12v is? and those 2 plug connections what are they for? cheers { iv had the sai removed from the ecu via united motorsports } Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) I think its a damper box, I got rid of mine. One of the valves controls the variable inlet iirc, the other is part of the SAI so can be deleted too. Edited June 7, 2012 by quicky1980 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VW_OwneR_85 2 Posted June 7, 2012 ok cool but wont i need the valve for variable inlet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted June 7, 2012 sorry, I meant the SAI valve can be binned but the other one, the inlet valve is kept. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted June 8, 2012 Sorry Sam, only had 2! Don't delete the black box! It's needed for the intake! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted June 8, 2012 Really? I've not got it fitted (i'll need to double check) but I dont have any issues linked to it. Whats it do then? I'll have to find mine out and refit it by the looks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted June 8, 2012 If you're talking about the black vacuum box that clips into the intake and has 2 solenoids on it, then yeah it's needed. It stores vacuum for immediate response of the flap. The Schricks used the same principal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VW_OwneR_85 2 Posted June 8, 2012 cool cheers for that info, oh what size socket do you need for the spark plugs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted June 8, 2012 Core butt plugs in the post chaps.... 16mm socket IIRC... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VW_OwneR_85 2 Posted June 8, 2012 hahaha ;) thanks once again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fanjita 1 Posted June 8, 2012 oh god, thought i had found an ecu but the hunt continues.... this is an absolute ball ache! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VW_OwneR_85 2 Posted June 8, 2012 oh god, thought i had found an ecu but the hunt continues.... this is an absolute ball ache! have you tryed these guys? they break alot of there stuff on ebay aswell, this is where i got my engine loom from , http://www.stevensvwspares.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fanjita 1 Posted June 9, 2012 Thanks mate ill give them a call today, nothing on the site! I have a Mk4 Fuel rail fitted, it mates up fine and seems to seal properly with the injectors, is it ok using the Mk5 injectors? I read a few places that say fit the Mk4 injectors too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I have a set of MK4 injectors and they are exactly the same as my BDB Audi injectors. I don't the think the injectors changed until the run out engines, which got an EV14 Bosch injector IIRC. MK4/Early MK5 use an EV12 injector and are pale blue in colour. If you're going for a MK5 ECU, I would personally use the MK5 fuelling method, which is a returnless 4 bar supply. Reason being the fuelling maps will be configured for a constant 4 bar supply. The MK4 method will only see 4 bar rail pressure at wide open throttle. It'll probably work with the MK4 method though, as the lambda control will adapt, but it'll be better with the MK5 way. Edited June 9, 2012 by Kevin Bacon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
