VR6 Handling issues

[Will 0]

Ok. Had my VR6 for almost 2 years and love it to bits, (bar a couple of gripes). Main thing that's bugging me at the moment is handling...

All reviews I've read tout the VR as one of the best front-drive handling cars ever, (even though they were written ten + years ago). Can't say I'd agree from my experience. Don't get me wrong, it's still better than a lot of cars it's just I expected better.

So, trying to work out if it's a problem with mine in particular. It understeers when being pushed at all through corners, and the feedback's not great. I know it's a heavy/powerful engine but still...

It's not the tyres (Bridgestone RE720s, 5 months old), and it's also lowered with Bilsteins/H&R springs, had the rear axle bushes done and been laser alligned/camber adj. recently. Anyone recommend looking at anything else...? There's no knocking or excessive play in the steering/susp.

Had a 205gti previously and hate to say it but starting to miss it. Vaguely thinking of going backwards - maybe with an mi16 engine. Am I mad?

 

Thanks guys.

[dr_mat 0]

Does it feel like the steering is loose? I lost all feel through the steering column due to play in the column. But in corners it would load up nicely and provide plenty of feedback...

[dinkus 10]

Have you had the ball joints, wishbone bushes, track rods and drop links checked out? They tend to wear out after 10yrs and should be replaced too.

[Will 0]

Sorry, yeah forgot to mention I changed all those parts when I did the suspension last year.

[dinkus 10]

Hmm boogar then.

 

Sounds like you need to drive other people's sorted Cs to see what they drive like - it could be that you're expecing a 1400kg VR to drive like a 700kg 205, or it could be something that's not quite right with your C...

 

Quite a few guys round you go to No-Rice - maybe someone there can indulge you?

[PhatVR6 0]

does it understeer if you go into a corner neutrally? or just inder power?

[Will 0]

It seems understeer without putting the power down, gets much worse if I do obviously. Just feels a bit disconnected - wouldn't feel confident driving it fast down a narrow country lane if you know what I mean...

Sounds like a good idea to go for a spin in another or get someone to drive mine and see if i'm moaning about nothing.

 

Where's this No-Rice?

[Joe M 0]

Who done the alignement and do you know what they set the front camber to?

[double-6s 0]

to be honest mate if you're comparing a C vr6 with a 205 gti, the C is always gonna feel a bit heavy and stodgy.

the 205 is the better handling car.

 

dinkus - think your weights may be a tad out there mate. a 700kg 205 gti? now that would be fun!

[Will 0]

Just had a look at the allignment print out - pretty sure I asked for -1.40 but the final settings at the front were -1.25 (left) and -1.18 (right). Do you think a bit more negative would improve the turn in?

[dr_mat 0]

.. I remember saying "the steering feels a bit disconnected" quite a lot about my VR until I swapped the steering column, as I said above ..

 

Take the knee panel off on the driver's side, to get access to the lower steering column. You should be able to see the UJs. Grab the top UJ tight and very gently move the steering wheel. If you feel *ANY* disconnect between these two points, you found your problem.

You can also try moving the UJ itself, and see if you feel any play between it and the rack. You may also have play on the rack and pinion itself.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Just had a look at the allignment print out - pretty sure I asked for -1.40 but the final settings at the front were -1.25 (left) and -1.18 (right). Do you think a bit more negative would improve the turn in?

 

You don't want any more negative than that. -1.2 and certainly -1.4 is too much for daily use, it'll eat the inside edges of the tyres on motorway runs and cause understeer as you've found.

 

Don't forget you're lower and stiffer too, so less bodyroll, so the forces have to go somewhere.....

 

Mine was an understeering pig this winter....-1.2 camber, 0 toe, Eibach arbs, coilovers and 17s etc. It's to be expected. But luckily I have the quaife to pull me out of bother.

 

It's barely understeers at all now since fitting 16s with Rainsports but I'm getting the camber knocked back to 0.9 to allow more tyre lean into the bends for less understeer.

 

I know exactly how you feel though but stick with it. Get it right and you'll never think about 205s again and they don't handle half as well as a nicely set up C.

[dinkus 10]

dinkus - think your weights may be a tad out there mate. a 700kg 205 gti? now that would be fun!

 

Ah oop - the 205 GTI is 1050kg, it's the G40 Polo that's 750kg :oops:

[double-6s 0]

Get it right and you'll never think about 205s again and they don't handle half as well as a nicely set up C.

 

cobblers (imo) :)

 

i'm no traitor, i love my C, but a 205gti would slay a C round the twisties. it's more agile and they have very well set-up chassis. peugeot used to know their sh*t in the old days (imo) :)

[Will 0]

1.9GTI's kerb weight is 870kg - reckon you'd have to do some serious modifications to make a C handle as well. The C has it beaten in almost every other area though so can't seriously see myself going back as an everyday car.

 

Quaiffe'd be lovely Kev - spending's got to stop somewhere though! Reckon I'll book it into Stealth in a month or so and try a bit less negative camber, maybe -1 and see how that goes.

[double-6s 0]

C definately beats the pug in all other areas - who wants to travel in a french bean tin? not me :)

[Trig 0]

i'm no traitor, i love my C, but a 205gti would slay a C round the twisties. it's more agile and they have very well set-up chassis. peugeot used to know their sh*t in the old days (imo) :)

 

Gotta disagree :)

 

Having driven both around the twistiest roads Cornwall can provide the C would withoud doubt annihilate a 205GTI. Those GTI's are nippy little go-karts but a VR6 or G60 would thrash it, dunno about valvers but i'd imagine they would out handle a pug if set up correctly.

 

I remember a few years ago when my mate leant me his 1.9GTI, it was a lot of fun thrashing it round but when I first drove my Corrado round some bendy lanes it was faster and more effortless. :)

[double-6s 0]

sorry, have to totally disagree with you mate. i have also driven good examples of both. the C is much less wieldy. defo.

i'd be happy to place my hard-earned down for a wee wager if you can source a pug mate :)

 

of course a vr would be a bit quicker on the straights (no other C is as quick as a 1.9 pug - standard), but a 1.9 gti is a fekin effective tool

 

let the dual commence! ;)

[double-6s 0]

hang on trigger, is that you're real age?

 

if so, you can't really have driven a good pug cos they're all rotten now! :)

[Trig 0]

LOL - That's a good point.

[Rpmayne 0]

Can't believe I'm hearing a Pug would out do a Corrado. Why is the Corrado VR still thought of as one of the best FWD handling cars then? No doubt they're fun much as the mk1 Golfs are but are they actually quicker? Need to find a 205 to drive now, think I must have been missing out.

[Rpmayne 0]

Think we need a shootout like 5th gear did with the Integrale and M3, both within a second of each other... and both beaten by a Mitsubishi Colt CZT with 150bhp. :shock:

 

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp ... n=Shootout

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Golf GTIs, 205 GTIs, Corrados, Clio Williams, R5 turbo etc etc were all heralded with high praise in some way or another back then. And owners of each would proclaim steadfastly that there's was the best handler.

 

Look at it logically, they're all FWD cars with torsion beam rear axles. The only advantage the 205 had was light weight. The Golf MK2 16V (the 1.9 205's nemesis) was 100Kg heavier....but it trounced it on acceleration with only 9hp advantage to haul that extra weight with. I have a 1987 copy of Autocar where they put the 205 against the 16V MK2 and the Goof won....on everything.....and what car is the Rado based on?

 

I've driven pretty much every hot hatch there is from the 90s (and owned quite a few of them) and no way can a 205, espeically now, *trounce* (and that's a bold word to use without proof) a Corrado VR6, especially not mine :-)

 

Yes the 205 does handle well, but there's not a significant enough advantage to murder a C....and the 205 will throw you backwards into a hedge WAY sooner than a C (that's had it's rear bushes changed) would ever think about losing it's rump.

 

The under rated 309 GTI was the better handler anyway, and the 106 Rallye would eat all the 80s Pug GTIs :-)

[double-6s 0]

mate i've driven them all too - also my era!

if you read carefuly i said a vr C would be quicker.

1.9gti pug defo outpulls a 16v mkII golf - so much quicker.

finally, i think we may have a war starting here :)

 

before battle commences, can i just get one thing clear.....

 

i fekin love the vr rado.

million times more car than the pug.

better, faster, better made, nicer looking, etc tec etc.

 

pug 1.9 gti would still eat a C on proper twisties though ;)

[double-6s 0]

and kev, to say the only advantage the pug had was weight is horse mate :)

 

just my opinion obviously, but i reckon chassis design comes into the equation too!

or are you saying that all 80s / 90s hot hatches are a generic breed with just weight difference to seperate them?? surely not.

 

(just putting my body armour on) :)