The Suspension Discussion Thread

[Critical_Mass 10]

The VRs front end is heavier then the other specs so the springs are stiff as a result

[frandaman 0]

Just got the verdict today that the Storm needs a bunch of new suspension parts including new springs and dampers. :pale: Damn you Sheffield roads! Will be going for a Koni kit I think, going by the verdict of most on here and my mechanic.

 

EDIT:

 

Konis are fitted and JESUS CHRIST are they good!

Edited July 7, 2011 by frandaman

[fendervg 33]

Any thoughts on Bilstein shocks with H&R springs on a VR6 - I have a set of B6s fitted to mine, but woudl like to lower it a little bit and am considering the 30mm green VR springs.

[mort1414 0]

whats peoples opinions on these as an alternative to kw?

 

http://www.madeone.com/blog/coilovers/

 

http://www.r32oc.com/made-one/36183-made-one-lowtec-2011-12-lineup.html

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Any thoughts on Bilstein shocks with H&R springs on a VR6 - I have a set of B6s fitted to mine, but woudl like to lower it a little bit and am considering the 30mm green VR springs.

 

Did you pursue this? How were the B6s with Standard springs? I used to have H&R greens with Koni yellows and they felt a bit harsh to me, although that could just have been the dampers having a very stiff high speed bump setting.

 

I've been thinking about going back to stock struts and the B12 kit whets my appetite. Always liked Bilstein stuff.

[coullstar 0]

Ive just fitted some AP coilovers to my car and it had relatively new standard stuff on before. I am pleasantly surprised at how little difference there is in ride quslity and the coilovers themselves appear to be good quality. The threads are nice big square acme type, none of the horrible v-threads. Very easy to fit and adjust, come with instructions (which I naturally only read after fitting them) and an adjustment spanner. Very good budget coilover @ £320 delivered to my door as part of group buy but I would pay the full £390 if I had too.

[fendervg 33]

Did you pursue this? How were the B6s with Standard springs? I used to have H&R greens with Koni yellows and they felt a bit harsh to me, although that could just have been the dampers having a very stiff high speed bump setting.

 

I've been thinking about going back to stock struts and the B12 kit whets my appetite. Always liked Bilstein stuff.

 

I am now running the B6s with the green H&R VR6 springs. The B6s are standard height shocks, and with the (albeit old) stock springs had the same comfort level with improved handling. Funnily the car sat a good bit higher than on the standard shocks - possibly the stock springs were tired. Then I fitted the H&Rs to get a 30mm drop, and this gave me nice visual effect and slightly lower ride height. The ride quality is only a little bit harsher, certainly not crashy, and I've had no comments on it from passengers that are often in the car.

 

As driver, I don't feel any noticeable difference in comfort vs stock - not sure about the handling at the moment, but I am waiting for it all to settle and will do alignment and tracking/camber then - problem is, can we go with stock values, or do these need to change ? The Bilstein stuff is excellent quality and I can't fault it - just be aware that they use Eibach springs in the B12 kit, which may be even harsher than the H&Rs.

 

My car is a 93, so it probably left the factory lower than the later cars, it has the "plus" setup, but it's very hard to identify the correct components in ETKA as there is a selection of springs there - and most aftermarket springs are made as "one size fits all" of a particular model like the VR.

 

Having said all that, I feel that you can only really evaluate the handling of a 16+ year old car if you replace everything in the suspension (shocks, springs, wishbones, bushes, ball joints, mounts etc.) with new OEM parts first, before messing with upgrades - I did that to my Golf GTI and the transformation was impressive - and then you can really appreciate the car's handling as it would have come out of the factory.

 

I'm tempted to stock up on VAG suspension parts as well as I will probably go back to original at some stage (just need to save the money ;) probably the guts of €1500 ).

 

Of the mods I've made, the Milltek exhaust and suspension haven't really made enough of a difference over stock to be worthwhile for the way I drive the car, and it's my daily - and can even have some downsides in some cases. 288 brakes, headlight loom and wipers are worth it though.

 

It seems to be very difficult to get the balance just right in terms of suspension setup on the C, because of the aesthetics and ride height vs handling - I guess they made it that way for a reason, as the best compromise. That's also why this thread is so long...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Thanks for that. I did hear the B12 springs were stiff and as you've confirmed they're Eibachs, god yeah, they will be rock hard!

 

With the camber I wouldn't go any more negative than 1 degree if you've lowered it, otherwise it can feel understeery in the wet (more so than usual) and the inner tyre wear is accelerated. Toe you keep the same regardless of height.

 

93s definitely looked better balanced ride height wise, then it was jacked up in 94, then it lost the 90mm spoiler in 95, so VW clearly had issues with ground clearance and / or ride quality.

 

Well I recently crested the top of the modifying hill and I'm coming back down the other side now, putting everything back to standard-ish. I've got KW V3s on at the moment but it just doesn't feel quite right compared to a standard one. Quicker through the bends for sure, but because of the lack of suspension travel it makes more of a meal of it. I think it might be because it's too low so maybe getting some longer springs for it might help but then I thought if I'm jacking it up, I may aswell just fit fixed struts!

 

At least with coilovers you can fit a spring rate that's exactly to your tastes, but with the fixed stuff you get what you're given, which is a pain. I don't think I'll be going low again until we come up with a way to reposition the wishbones back to their stock position.

[Redfox 10]

Hi Fishwick et al,

I would like to ask how hard is the V3 KW? as I bought the V1 and think they are somewhat soft. I would like it a little harder for sure. And the adjustable in and out seems fine too. I guess it's the high speed that is adjustable? Not wanting to throw much money after a lack of success again, I humbly ask ;)

I'd like to add that I don't use my Corrado (G60) as a daily driver, but more on spirited zig-zag road driving and track days. I added Eibach arbs front and rear, powerflexes most places and Eibach strut tower bar front, and Wiecers rear.

 

Mu Corrado is not overly lowered, but I would also like to get some bits for correcting the trackarm angle. Any ideas?

 

Is there anything to be gained from a lower front bar between the track arms? (maybebetter precision)?

 

Finally what is the optimum toe in/out on the G60 ? I am not so much into understeering... ;)

 

Cheers,

Redfox.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Redfox

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I guess you don't live in the UK if you feel V1s are too soft! :D

 

All I can say about the V3s is they are a lot more comfortable than the Corrado I drove on V1s! I am comparing two VR6s though. I've never driven a G60 on KWs so I can't advise you on that. Do KW offer car specific kits or a "one size fits all"?

 

Yeah with the V3s you can adjust low speed bump and rebound seperately. The low speed bump is very useful for reducing brake dive and pitching, and better control over undulations and crests etc. The high speed bump is not as harsh as other kits.

 

If you want firm, maybe consider the Bilstein PSS9?

 

There isn't much we can do about repositioning the wishbones other than a recast hub (bearing carrier) which relocates the mountings for the wishbone etc. You can get tierod flip kits to help with bumpsteer but I don't think they fully solve the problem on their own. Someone on here fitted Audi S3 hubs which I think worked for him. I did have a link to a US company who recast new hubs for VW/Audi but I lost it and can't find them on google.

[24V Renshaw 0]

Shotgun if you get rid of the V3's Kev ;)

 

jay

[Redfox 10]

Thanks a lot. I will look out for the flipkit first to see how much of a difference it makes. I'll do a google on it. Hmm, I think the roads are equally bad most places... apart from Schwitzerland.

 

I chose between a pss9 b14/b16 kit and was advised that the b14 is real hard, the b16 even worse. I will say that I don't want them to be hard for the sake of hardness, but surely they could do with being a little tightened up from factory.

After having been driving with them for two and a half months, I have come to have the impression, that V1 KW's (Inox) are made for those who want the coilover adjustability in height, and still wants a soft ride.

Since i'm an old fart, but not a corpse, I want the ride harder than soft, with a more controlled suspension both in and out, as I allways disliked comfort (just like luggage - what on Earth to do with that?).

The same I was advised on the KW v1-2-3. So, wanting to try something new, I chose the KW. Unfortunately I also listened to the advise on the hardness, as a few people said that the v1 was hard enough. After installing them, I found them to be somewhat soft. Too soft on bound and rebound. I would say that the quality of the way they work is very good though, in contrast to some other kits I've tried, which was overly bumpy and made the wheels fly and jump, instead of glueing them to the tarmac. I now try to do the rest of the bits, and we'll see next spring what it turns out to be, but I think that v3 (Inox) is the way to go. The can be adjusted over a winder range both hard and soft.

I am thinking of some KW topmounts too. Powerflex is in place, and it surely helped taking the feeling of indecision away. I can now better feel what the wheels are doing and where they are. Later adding the Eibach strut tower bar improved that said, and as I already have the Eibach arb kit installed two months ago, the bodyroll and flex is fine.

As I see it, those parts make much less bodyroll, and less warning on loosing rear end, but when the quality of the movement is top, the car is easier to feel when it reaches the limit.

That is also why I went from 195/50-15 to 215/45-16 to now 205/40-17 on tires and wheels, no spacers.

I also made the mistake of lowering them too much in the start. Looking nice, but almost undrivable. Raised them 3 times to find a better spot. I probably ahve to raise it a bit more. But one thing at a time. I mean, what's the idea of having a superlow car with lot's of horses, if one cannot use them? (not my car as it is fairly standard, but all those guys with heavily tuned engines). Anyway, just my twopence.

Very nice thread btw, and probably the most important one on the site.

 

I find the less brake dive important as it won't shift much weight and unsettle the rear end, while also keeping a better spread of load on the tyres - brake in, accelerate out.

 

KW asked me of which model I have, and what year, and driving style, but I wouldn't be able to tell if they regulate some valves or alike to accomodate different versions of the Corrado.

 

Good ideas on the Corrado (G60) handeling is greatly received.

 

Cheers,

Redfox.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Redfox

[max west-yorks 10]

Hi,

 

Just a newbie after a quick answer as I don't fancy reading through 89 pages!

 

What are the best coilovers for ride quality on rados when low, and I mean properly low i.e. 15" alloy minimal rim/arch gap

 

 

My current car is being sold this weekend and is on APs, which were comfortable even with the car only 2" from the floor

 

I'm biting the bullet and forking out for the insurance for a G60 this week as I can't be without one for any longer, and first thing on the 'to do' list is a battering with the lowering stick, the compos from the lupo will be tested on the rado, and if I don't like the look of them I'll be going for a set of 16" moderlines

 

 

I'm guessing APs also get good reviews for ride quality on the rado too but just wanted to be sure before I dove in!

 

 

Cheers,

Max

[fendervg 33]

Anyone have any ideas on the best camber and alignment values to use with a 30mm drop with standard height Bilstein B6s on 15 inch Speedlines ? The wishbones are sitting parallel to the ground and I'm wondering if the stock VR values will work.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

-1 camber

stock toe

[fendervg 33]

Cheers - will give that a try when I'm getting it done.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Stock camber (-1.2) on a lowered car will scrub the inside edges off faster, so -1 is a nice compromise. I've used it for years and haven't skidded off the road yet :D

[iamsilverfox 10]

hello. im having a few problems with the suspension setup on my valver. the idea is to go low, like real low. so (because im skint) i bought some fleabay £150 coilovers as they advertised 120mm down. my friends have them in their polo and lupo, which are very low and the coilovers arnt too bad. After fitting them to my corrado, they are hard as hard can. like insanely hard. especially on the back. is there anyway to improve this? are there any other more expensive coilovers that will go as low and provide a better ride? would using softer springs help? i dont mind it being stiff but this is really something else! on occasion my bum leaves the seat!

[fendervg 33]

Cheap coilovers are never a good idea - I'd be tempted to say that you're better off with standard suspension - going that low is also going to ruin your handling and is a shame to do to a Corrado. There isn't really a 100% perfect solution to cosmetically lowering a Corrado and retaining the handling - hence there are efforts by better minds than mine to design custom hubs and balljoints to solve this. Alos why this thread is so long.

[Redfox 10]

I have earlier on been driving with for example a set of mid priced coilovers that were also quite hard. Both in fast and slow bumps.

Now, I bought a set of KW Inox line version 1, which can also lower quite much, but they are soft to your liking, I am sure. Nowhere near as hard as Interalloy I used earlier, or other brands. The valving technique is much more developed in KW (for example), compared to cheap coilovers. I find them too soft, and want something more hard and more adjustable, but will not throw them away before I have finished setting the Corrado up completely, like bolting on all three strut tover bars, track arm bar, full set of Powerflex bushes, a set of Eibach anti roll bars (thicker than standard), bigger wheels, lower profile tyre, hard engine mounts, harder seats etc. Only then I will have a complete picture of how the car manouvers and the suspension works.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that the quality of the suspension ovement in itself is far beyond what you ecperience now, and cannot in any way be compared.

Yes, KW is softer too.

Cheers,

Redfox.

 

edit: I second that of fendervg. Don't lower too much.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Redfox

[iamsilverfox 10]

mmm thanks for the responses guys. it's a difficult one to go by. i guess it's the same as most cases - you get what you pay for. a friend of mine races pick ups and his setup is nearly a thousand pound a corner which is insane. there's a line to find between handeling and comfort and lowness. but how i am at the moment, and the few scenes i hang around with it's very often form over function. i think it will be a case of trial and error with different setups until i find something better. thanks guys.

[Tristan H 10]

this is a 90 page thread... and I have a slow net connection , just wondering what is the favoured 25-30mm lowering springs for standard dampers?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

this is a 90 page thread

 

And?

 

LOTR is 1000s of pages, but people still read through it to get to the main plot.

 

How did you find information before the internet came along?

 

... and I have a slow net connection , just wondering what is the favoured 25-30mm lowering springs for standard dampers?

 

We don't recommend lowering springs on old, tired, dampers but if that's the kind of lowering you're after, the Koni Yellows / H&R spring combo is much enjoyed by many, or even Bilstein B6 with some cheapo springs would be a lot better than hard springs on old soggy OE dampers.

[Tristan H 10]

The dampers are neither old , nor tired . I bought a set of Eibachs in the end , and am happy with the ride height , and the ride quality.

 

Before the internet... I asked people on the phone , or who had the same device/product I was interested in .

[4eyes2wheels 0]

Got Bilstein B4s all around and want to replace the springs as they are 18 years old now. I'd like a small drop, 25 mm perhaps?, and to crispen up the handling. Suggestions please?