The Suspension Discussion Thread

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It is a little more involved than that, but it's boring and too complicated for a nice sunny day like today :lol:

 

But that is why the standard ride height on many cars is so lofty. You get a full arc, instead of 1/2, or 1/4 of one. The R32 has totally different hubs and things to get round it, which is why it's low AND also handles very well.

 

Mr Mass, the symptoms of the bottom sketch are feeling the road wheels and steering wheel "twitch" when going over bumps under power and braking. It's most noticable mid corner actually. Not to be confused with tramlining, which is the road wheels following the road shape too faithfully (also tugs the steering wheel)..... that's usually down to worn tyres, and / or geometry off, 40 profile tyres, and again, being too low.

 

I find Corrados are fussy with tyres. As soon as they go beyond half wear, traction reduces and tramlining increases.....especially if they are over inflated and wearing in the middle. Eagle F1s are bad for that. They don't tolerate over inflation on heavy nosed cars like a VR.

 

yep, definitely get the geometry done after any suspension work. It makes a massive difference.

[Critical_Mass 10]

It is a little more involved than that, but it's boring and too complicated for a nice sunny day like today :lol:

 

But that is why the standard ride height on many cars is so lofty. You get a full arc, instead of 1/2, or 1/4 of one. The R32 has totally different hubs and things to get round it, which is why it's low AND also handles very well.

 

Mr Mass, the symptoms of the bottom sketch are feeling the road wheels and steering wheel "twitch" when going over bumps under power and braking. It's most noticable mid corner actually. Not to be confused with tramlining, which is the road wheels following the road shape too faithfully (also tugs the steering wheel)..... that's usually down to worn tyres, and / or geometry off, 40 profile tyres, and again, being too low.

 

I find Corrados are fussy with tyres. As soon as they go beyond half wear, traction reduces and tramlining increases.....especially if they are over inflated and wearing in the middle. Eagle F1s are bad for that. They don't tolerate over inflation on heavy nosed cars like a VR.

 

yep, definitely get the geometry done after any suspension work. It makes a massive difference.

 

Cheers Kev,

 

I had the geometry set up after the suspension was fitted. I can only say, as you already have, its the tyres. The tyres on the fronts are not that old, maybe 2-3 months. Still plenty of tread. I did change them for the rears to see if that made any difference - no it didnt. I'll stop being tight fisted and shell out for some top tyres next time and see if that helps. The steering is awful at the mo, if i go over a really bumpy surface the steering wheel goes from side to side, following every hump in the road. Id expext it to do it a bit if the road is really bad, but not that much. Even going down a road with only the odd lump, it still follows the lump. Oddly though, my rear n/s tyre is wearing badly on the inner edge. The rear o/s is ok as are the 2 fronts.... odd?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The rear n/s tyre wear needs investigating mate.

 

Your symptoms sound like soggy dampers to me actually, although cack tyres can have a bad effect also.

 

The rear n/s wear is one of three things..... 1) Knackered damper, 2) geometry or 3) Bent axle.

 

The stub axle can be shimmed to bring it back in line. Was your geometry a proper 4 wheel alignment job? Wear like that should have been flagged? If not, it's prolly a shot damper? Is it leaking?

 

Does the car sometimes feels like it's floating over bumps.....sort of like a couple of small bounces instead of tightly controlled body movement?

[Dub20vt 0]

So, the aim of the game is to keep the hub moving in a nice arc, that's why double wishbones were invented, but a cheaper way for us would be to A) Not lower so much, or B) figure out a way of restoring the correct arc, i.e. move the rack up, or any other ideas someone may have?

 

There are ways to help correct this.

 

you can get racing hubs (believe mk2/corrado ones were made by a company called Shine).

 

Fit bottom ball joint extenders (or replace bottom ball joints for a rose jointed cone),

 

add to the bottom ball joint you can also get a tie rod end that's just a rose joint on the end so that you can bolt the steering arm wherever you feel neccessary (change angle using spacers on a bolt).

 

There will always be slight trade offs depending how far you go with suspension and wether you're after performance or looks.... and finding a happy medium if you want the best of both worlds.

[boost monkey 0]

Not sure if someone has mentioned already but you can get LBJ extenders which basically make the BJ twice as high so that it sticks out of the hub further underneath.

 

This helps to keep the wishbones more parallel. Seen them over on CGTi a lot.

[Critical_Mass 10]

The rear n/s tyre wear needs investigating mate.

 

Your symptoms sound like soggy dampers to me actually, although cack tyres can have a bad effect also.

 

The rear n/s wear is one of three things..... 1) Knackered damper, 2) geometry or 3) Bent axle.

 

The stub axle can be shimmed to bring it back in line. Was your geometry a proper 4 wheel alignment job? Wear like that should have been flagged? If not, it's prolly a shot damper? Is it leaking?

 

Does the car sometimes feels like it's floating over bumps.....sort of like a couple of small bounces instead of tightly controlled body movement?

 

The bloke at garage said they will do it spot on and highly recommended the company that was doing the geometry, and i know i can trust his word. The shocker is new, albeit only a cheaper fk shock and spring setup. But i wouldnt have expected it to have gone already! ill check to see if its leaking asap.

 

Is there anyway to check if the rear axle is bent? Take it back to the guys who set up the geometry?

 

Not gonne be happy if it is the rear axle.

 

Another thing to note is that the car look slanted a bit, lower on the n/s rear, and i think the gap between the arch on the tyre on that side is bigger then the o/s i thought it was the shocker not settling as well as the o/s.

[daves16v 1]

Anyone around Notts/Derby area with KW V1's. I'm pretty sure I'm going with these but would like a test drive to make my mind up 100%. I've been burned before with suspension so need to get it right this time.

 

Thanks

[Critical_Mass 10]

Kev - Ok just taken a look at the car. The n/s is slightly more out at the bottom to the o/s. Also took a spirit level to it, the bubble is almost spot on in the middle, to one side ever so slightly, which will be the camber. However the otherside is way out, the bubble is to one side. So that confirms the wheel is in at the top and out at the bottom, hence the wearing of the inside of the tyre. But.... What now? Do i get it bent back to shape or replace the whole axle (hope not)?

[lj-maguire 0]

i've got avo gtz coilovers and have to say they are good mines lowerdso my 90mm chin spoiler sits bot an inch 1/2 off the floor and the rearsare too high for my lking but my tyres are rubing at the mo but 16x9 all rounnd you'd have to expext it lol the ride on them is comfy considering the height.

[KADVR6 0]

well i've had my Weitec TX's on for about 2 weeks, and all i can say is awesome suspension 8) i wound them down to 120mm and they were still comfy, i have since raised them as you cant drive it around here safely that low. the rebound is very very good also, its almost as comfy as standard suspension.

 

i rate these coilovers as good/better than the H&R's i had on before, and also miles better than the konigsports i've had also.

[Mike Edwards 0]

Kev - Ok just taken a look at the car. The n/s is slightly more out at the bottom to the o/s. Also took a spirit level to it, the bubble is almost spot on in the middle, to one side ever so slightly, which will be the camber. However the otherside is way out, the bubble is to one side. So that confirms the wheel is in at the top and out at the bottom, hence the wearing of the inside of the tyre. But.... What now? Do i get it bent back to shape or replace the whole axle (hope not)?

Check that the stub axle isn't bent 1st, as these just bolt on and are much easier to replace. They can also be shimmed.

 

Also, check the respective ride heights side to side. If one spring platform is set differently to the other (or the springs are different lengths/weights) you wmight get the same effect.

[Mike Edwards 0]

Anyone around Notts/Derby area with KW V1's. I'm pretty sure I'm going with these but would like a test drive to make my mind up 100%. I've been burned before with suspension so need to get it right this time.

 

Thanks

I have V1s on the VR6 with 16"wheels and Fulda tyres. I've had various other set ups on this car with varying results. I think the set up I liked the most were Mk2 Golf Koni t/a coilovers on a Corrado 16v running 17" wheels and Toyo Proxes.

[boost monkey 0]

Stock suspension ftw.

 

Theives can't even see the car on a cloudy day :salute:

[Mike Edwards 0]

:clap:

[boost monkey 0]

Given that this is a suspension information thread, here's information about the OE suspension on the Corrado range (what I can remember, anyway).

 

OE manufacturer for shocks was Boge (a.k.a. SACHS). Early cars all came with simple oil filled shocks, later cars (maybe) and VRs (definitely) came with gas-over-oil shocks.

GSF sell the gas-over-oil ones for good prices (though still 3x the factory cost!) and they're branded either Boge Turbogas or SACHS Advantage. You can tell the gas ones because they spring back of their own accord. Gas ones can be happily fitted to any car without issues.

 

Don't know too much about the VW springs, but I know there's lots of different ones, and they're distinguished by coloured dots at the base of the spring coils.

 

I have been looking for this information for months! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: 140 pages of search results is not for the win.

 

Am I right in thinking that the std VAG oil front shock absorbers do NOT spring back by themselves? I have a shedload (literally) from various cars and kits and am trying to work out which ones are dead. I have a matched pair that came with the KW kit I got recently. The pistons are happier going down under force than they are coming up via me pulling on the rod (is this right?) but if you leave them fully up, they are pretty much neck and neck returning to normal position (I know it's not very scientific, but I'm approximating their downward movement at roughly 2mm per second.)

 

Also, am I right in thinking that oil shocks are old technology and gas ones are better? If these shocks I have turn out to be in VGC after all is it worth putting them on and building them up as complete struts or should I really be looking at getting some gas ones? Please remember it's a budget build!

 

Thanks for the help :grin:

 

Jonny.

[Mike Edwards 0]

Sounds like they're fine. If you fit early standard springs (with appropriate top plates) it won't sit quite so high.

[Critical_Mass 10]

Cheers for the help Mike. Ill check it out.

 

Monkey - WHen i took my stock shockers off i found that 1 of 4 would not return to the top by itself. However the other 3 did. (??) So i guessed that 1 was dead and the other 3 were fine.

 

But Mike is saying that youre sound fine? Confusing :gag:

[boost monkey 0]

Confusing indeed! If Mr. Edwards could elaborate and perhaps clarify in one fell swoop that would be ace and radical :grin:

 

None of my oils return to the top: they all stop with about 4" of the piston (including top threaded part) sticking out from the bottom sleeve/encasement.

 

If you pull them out to their longest limit, they will always settle at this ~4" length too. So either they're all fine or all broken? :shrug:

 

I scrubbed the nicest ones up this evening in the hope that someone will say they are fine and I can get on with my build :salute:

[boost monkey 0]

Bump for someone who knows...

[boost monkey 0]

Seriously, no-one knows?

 

I'll PM Mike Edwards.

[was8v 0]

If you fit early standard springs (with appropriate top plates) it won't sit quite so high.

 

Early suspension FTW (I have some good early front springs for cheap - PM) lose the tractor height but not the ride.

 

None of my oils return to the top: they all stop with about 4" of the piston (including top threaded part) sticking out from the bottom sleeve/encasement.

 

When i did the rear shocks on my GF's corsa (the rear was very bouncy) the old shocks felt the same pulling them up and down by hand as the new cheapo shocks. But with the new shocks on it isn't as bouncy.

 

Basically you can't really tell unless they are a leaking rusty mess what they are like on the inside.

 

When a new pair of good KYB gas front shocks are only £52 ex VAT from http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/shock-absorbers-vw.php its hardly worth putting old ones back on.

 

FYI all Corrados came with non gas shocks except the VR6 which came with gas assist rear shocks only.

[boost monkey 0]

Thanks for the link was8v. Do you or anyone else have KYB shocks on their car? What are they like?

[was8v 0]

Thanks for the link was8v. Do you or anyone else have KYB shocks on their car? What are they like?

 

I run Monroe Gas dampers (previous owner fitted) so no experience of KYB on a C.

 

Theres a few people running them (forum search KYB).

 

KYB shocks are very popular in Jap car / Impreza circles and well priced from buypartsby.

[boost monkey 0]

Thanks for the link was8v. Do you or anyone else have KYB shocks on their car? What are they like?

 

I run Monroe Gas dampers (previous owner fitted) so no experience of KYB on a C.

 

Theres a few people running them (forum search KYB).

 

KYB shocks are very popular in Jap car / Impreza circles and well priced from buypartsby.

 

 

Will do, cheers :salute:

[emax 0]

I've read through this entire thread now as I'm getting fed up with the poor ride quality of my car.

 

When I got the car, it had Eibach lowering springs fitted but was otherwise standard.

 

The original dampers were shot so about 5 years ago, I replaced with Bilstein dampers. This improved things somewhat. I then fitted poly bushes around the same time and regret this. While they definitely sharpen the car up, the ride quality is terrible.

 

I think things have got progressively worse as the Eibach springs have worn out and not it's time to do something about it. As I'm becoming an old fart these days, ride quality is increasingly important. The roads around here are also terrible which doesn't help.

 

Reading through this thread, there are lots of good things to say about various coilover setups but they all seem to be quite highly priced for what I'm after. Then there's the Koni TA and H&R route which gets praise but the ride quality is said to be stiffer than standard so I'm still a bit undecided.

 

I've been thinking of reverting to a totally standard setup. I can live with the high ride height although I wouldn't mind dropping the rear down a bit if possible. Could this be done with earlier standard springs as mentioned a few posts ago?

 

I assume my newish Bilstein dampers wouldn't work properly with the longer standard springs (they were ordered through Star Performance, presumably to match to the Eibachs).

 

Any advice, much appreciated.