Big end blues

[Jonny_L 0]

Alright folks, I finally got round to doing my big end shells yesterday, but i've got a problem.

I made sure that all the bearings were covered in graphogen (as recommended by the engine centre i got it from), everything was torqued up nicely, the old bearings were quite loose, but the new ones fitted nicely, and plastigauge says my cranks ok.

Anyway, sump goes on with new gasket, oil in, and i fired it up.

 

First off, it sounded the same as always, a bit clacky from the bottom end, i tryed revving it (carefully) to about 2500 rpm, at which point the clacking stopped and it sounded healthy. Bonus.

Then I went to 3000 rpm, and it just died, stopping with a funny squeaking noise, and now the engine won't turn over. It sounds like it's really trying, but can't turn. I made sure the battery was fully charged, but i've got a horrible feeling that something's seized.

 

I'll have to get it back up in the air and try turning it over by hand, but does anyone have any ideas what might of happened there?

Just thought i'd ask before i have to drop the oil and sump again.

Cheers, Jonny

[coolrado 0]

im not sure but havnt the bearing shells got oil way holes in them to allow lubrication? could they have been fitted the wrong way round?

 

either way if it stopped with a squeak it quite likely something has siezed :cry:

[Jonny_L 0]

They've got a little lip on one side which needs to match up the right way, but no holes. there are holes in the crank for oil I think.

Just to make sure, the torque setting on big ends is 30nm, isn't it?

forgot to say, it's a VR6 by the way.

[Supercharged 2]

Does it turn freely by hand??

 

Just wondering if you put too much of that stuff on them and it's blocked the oil pump pickup?

[Supercharged 2]

BTW - I think there is a torque setting plus 1/2 a turn... (check this, don't take my word for it!)

 

Did you use new bolts?

[Crasher 3]

Stupid question really but I have to ask, did you put graphogen on the back of the shells? Also, did you get oil pressure up on the starter with the plugs out before starting? If you are lucky, you can pull it apart again and polish the crank with some W&D and reassemble and try again. I saw this once where a mechanic had put the hells in without regard for where the locating tabs went and another where one of the caps was on back to front. Not changing the bolts can also cause this.

[Jonny_L 0]

Not good news. I couldn't turn the crank by hand, so I dropped the sump again to have a look. I checked the ones i could get to (I think 2 and 5) both were fine, then checked number 1... had to give it a (light!) tap with a hammer to get it off, and I found that it's completely shagged. both shells have a big scrape on them, and there seems to be a corresponding scrape on my crankshaft :cry:

 

I'm not sure how it happened to be honest, I found some metal filings in there, which i assume are part of my crankshaft :shock:

 

Out of interest, I did put graphogen on the backs, as the parts guy said put it "all over the place", also, i didn't get the oil pressure up before hand, could these things of caused it?

 

Anyway, it seems the damage is done now. I'm trying to work out where to go from here. My options are either to look into getting the crank reground, get a second hand VR6 engine somewhere, or start saving up and go the route of the 24v 8)

 

Mind you, money IS an issue, so what sort of price should i be looking at to get the crank done?

Ta, Jonny

[Crasher 3]

Putting the goo on the back of the bearings is probably what did it, having a film on the backing significantly closes up the clearances, preventing an oil film building up. The other possibility I thought of was if you had put 0.25 undersize shells on a standard crank. The trouble with a VR6 is that taking the crank out is such a lot of work, gearbox out, cam chains off (replace whilst you are in there) etc.

[Jonny_L 0]

Oh right, I see. Big mistake on my behalf then. I also didn't replace the conrod bolts, forgot to mention, since my friendly vw man said not to bother, since they wanted another £100 odd for them.

 

Still, can't blame him for my mistakes, I suppose!

 

I've just got a few Quotes from breakers, best so far for a 96' VR6 engine with 47k on was £710 delivered. Quite a bit more than i was expecting, tho he said i'd get a 60 day guarentee.

i'll go and work through the for sale sections and the like, otherwise i'll get my haggling hat on and call him back.

 

By the way, even with the bad one off, it still doesn't turn, so i suspect the others would be like that too if i could get to them!

is it hard to swap a VR round? I'll get an engine crane, but i've only ever done beetle engines. I take it VW's aren't just 4 bolts and lift any more!

[double-6s 0]

Is that quote for a 2.9 or 2.8 mate?

[Crasher 3]

Jonny,

 

Has your VR6 got a dizzy or a coil pack?

[Jonny_L 0]

Quote's for a 2.9 with coil pack, so it's exactly the same as mine, but 2 years newer and 35k less on the clock. What do you reckon on that price?

I'd probably break mine up and sell the good bits, so it could work out not too expensive.

 

I'm really keen on the idea of a 24v conversion now, but I'm 21, so my insurance already hates me. (or should that be loves me!)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Incidentally, that clacking you mentioned at the start of the thread. Was that why you changed the shells? It's not unusual for VR6s to suffer piston slap for about 20 seconds in the mornings, so long as it goes within a minute you're OK. That noise mustn't be confused with a deep metallic rumbling noise, which is usually worn big ends.

 

Good luck with sourcing a new engine! Not sure but a 2.8 4 motion engine isn't much more powerful (on paper) than your 2.9, so shouldn't affect the premium too much. Give them a sob story that it's cheaper to put one in than rebuild the 12V!

[Jonny_L 0]

I think we discussed that before, It wasn't going away. I think it was to do with the bearings, as they were initially pretty worn. It might of had some piston slap as well on top, since it did used to get quieter after being warmed up.

 

I'm wondering if it all started after using that engine flush stuff. I tried it once, thinking "I love my vr6, i'm gonna treat it to a good clean", and since then, my engine's sounded like it's slowly killing it's self! course it wasn't until after i used it that i read the threads on here about it. Maybe that loosened up the bearings to begin with.

 

Just thinking, what's worth considering doing on a 47k engine while it's out? Don't think there's much point doing the chains yet, but is there anything else? It's an auto, and had the box rebuilt a couple of years ago (not by me), so that should all be fine too. touch wood.

 

As for the 24v, I'm thinking, if i'm paying that much for a vr, it might be worth looking into. I'll try my insurance, but they quoted me an extra £86 to put an induction kit on :shock: , so i'm not getting my hopes up!

[Stan 24v 0]

Thats a really good price for a 12v VR mate!!!!

 

Who will do the work for you? If its a garage then you will NOT get a 24v done for less than £3k :shock:

 

Also, insurance is a big factor as most wont touch a modded car. I did manage to get mine FC for £600 protected, but Im 27 with 6 yrs no claims.

[Jonny_L 0]

I was thinking it's pretty good, I know milage isn't everything but 47k has to be a bonus, and the fact that delivery is included is a godsend.

Honestly, if you hadn't mentioned it in the other thread, I wouldn't be thinking about the 24v now!

You're probably right about the insurance, i'll try them tomorrow just in case, but i think they'll laugh at me. If they don't, i'll ask about an R32 engine, there's another one on ebay!

 

I'll be doing all the work myself either way, so the 12v is a much easier option, but then the 24v shouldn't cost the earth. I'm much better at fabricating and welding than i am at mechanics :oops:

[Stan 24v 0]

Try Brentacre mate, theyre really good for insurance. Theres details in the suppliers section iirc

[double-6s 0]

i reckon thats a sweet price for a 47k vr lump delivered to your door mate! decent engines are fairly rare - or thats what i've found. there's loads around for 5/600 squid but they're all high miles etc.

 

you know you want to stay loyal to the 12v :)

[Jonny_L 0]

you know you want to stay loyal to the 12v :)

 

Thats the other thing. I spent a fortune getting some speedlines refurbed, all in the name of keeping my car standard. can't go back on myself now!

[Jonny_L 0]

A quick update:

I've ordered that engine, I figured It'd be silly to miss out on such a low milage engine with 60 day guarentee :)

I got chatting to the guy on the phone, and he's offered me the manual gearbox, plus all the gubbins described in Storms auto to manual thread, for about £250. I'm extremely tempted TBH. I bought an auto: A) coz it was cheap, and B) I fancied it at the time, but I do miss having full control of the gears, and i bet the VR must be loads more fun.

That seems a pretty good deal to me, I'm tempted order the bits in anyway, since i could probably get my money back if i decide against it.

Hmmmm, decisions, decisions.

 

Oh yeah, Is it possible to put an air con system in while i'm there too?

If i can source all the bits, that is.

 

Feel free to tell me to shut up, sell it and buy a manual with air con!

[Stan 24v 0]

Yes you can add the aircon, and that is also a cheap qoute for the gearbox. Is it a low miler too?

[Jonny_L 0]

The gearbox is from the same car. Unfortunately my insurance has dictated it for me. They said i can't put the manual box in. Pretty lame really.

I was thinking about calling around, but it was so difficult to find insurance on the corrado anyway, that i might as well not bother. (not yet, anyway!)

 

Ok, There's probably a thread about it somewhere, but how do I fit air con into a non air con car? I assume it's just a matter of grabbing all the bits and bobs from a donor car and throwing them at my corrado :lol: ?

I've inherited my late granddad's rover 25 (yes, i know), So at least i'm in no rush to have it back on the road... Well, sort of!

I'm also taking the time to spray up my flakey bumpers.

[Jonny_L 0]

My engine arrived today :D

All looks in order, tho i'm gonna need a few bits and bobs that they didn't send me. All just normal service stuff like belts, plugs and HT leads, so not bad.

 

Just thought i'd big up http://www.breakerlink.co.uk, I put in an application for the engine there, and had 3 calls within 20 minutes.

 

I'll name the scrappy I bought it from when i know it works! :wink:

Now all i've gotta do is send my tinworm ridden campervan to the great stealers in the sky :( . It's too far gone to do anything on, and i need the shelter for my Corrado.

[Stan 24v 0]

Make the camper into a shelter and put the C in that. :lol:

 

Now that would be cool 8)

[Jonny_L 0]

Hi everyone, I finally got my arse in gear and got my new engine in. I'm well chuffed, mainly coz it started first time!

 

Course, nothing's that easy though. The new engine sounds like a right old tractor. I assume it's mainly coz it's been sitting around for a while, but it sounds like it's knocking a fair bit. I'd say it sounds like the timing's out, since the whole thing sounds bit rough. I used the ignition system from my old engine, maybe it doesn't match up properly or something? I don't know, Give me a distributer any day!

I guess the best thing i can do is hunt for my vag-com lead and hook it up, see if it can find anything.

 

Jonny