Vr6 whine when cold

[Andy T 0]

My VR6 engine whines for first five mins after a cold start, its noticeable even inside the car with the windows shut. It is there at all rpm above idle, and is noiser the higer the rpm is. I did a search but the only thing that came back was that it could be the alternator. The noise is coming from the back of the cylinder head area, the alternator is pretty silent.

 

Once the car has warmed up a bit, it goes away. What causes this, is it anything to worry about?

 

cheers

[Crasher 3]

Replace the poly v belt and tensioner.

[Supercharged 2]

The bearing can be replaced in the tensioner if caught in time...

[Stan 24v 0]

I reckon its your power steering fluid going through the pump. Its thicker when cold, and all VRs do it ;)

[double-6s 0]

What sort of whine is it mate? Mine makes a kinda whining sound when cold - always thought it was the transmission until its warmed up?

 

Exactly the same noise as my neighbours 2.8 granada warming up when i was a kid :)

[big_chris1981 0]

My VR6 engine whines for first five mins after a cold start, its noticeable even inside the car with the windows shut. It is there at all rpm above idle, and is noiser the higer the rpm is. I did a search but the only thing that came back was that it could be the alternator. The noise is coming from the back of the cylinder head area, the alternator is pretty silent.

 

Once the car has warmed up a bit, it goes away. What causes this, is it anything to worry about?

 

cheers

How low is your car?

 

What condition is your sump in???

 

We had the exact same problem with a VR6 here, turned out to be the sump squahed against the oil pickup on the oil pump (also cracked the pickup pipe, so we replaced the whole thing to be sure).

 

Worth an investigate....

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah what he /\ says.... and also, someone else on here with the same whine ran their VR from cold with the serpentine belt disconnected and the whine persisted, so it was the oil pump itself making the noise. I've not heard many 'silent' VR6s at all. They all make some kind of noise.

[dr_mat 0]

Agreed it's the oil pump. Lots of VWs seem to make that noise when the oil is ultra-thick, it's just how it is.

[Andy T 0]

I've had a listen at the tensioner and I can't hear anything there. Defo seems to be coming from the back of the cylinder head.

 

PAS pump was replaced last year with genuine part and is very quiet when steering. Car is only lowered 30mm and sump is fairly new so oil pump should be ok.

 

I had a VR6 auto for a while last year with the 115k on the clock and that made the same engine whine when cold but slightly louder.

 

Could it be anything to do with the valve train/chains/bearings in the head?

[dr_mat 0]

I've heard the same noise on 1.6 and 1.8 four-cylinder VWs. They don't have the same VR head or timing chains, yet they sound the same.

I restate - it has to be the oil pump.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Back of the head could indicate chain gear, but it's only the upper tensioner pad you hear when worn, and that doesn't whine, it 'grates'....most noticable holding the revs at 1200.

 

Back of the head could also just mean the sound from the pump is travelling up through the block. The pump is bolted to the rear of the block 3/4 the way along toward the bellhousing. You also have intermediate shaft bearings for the oil pump down the back there, so could be those, but unlikely as they're white metal bearings and therefore nothing to 'clash' and cause whine.

 

I've got a brand new pump and spinning that by hand is certainly not smooth, you can feel the gears meshing.....that's your whine. It's not important. VR pumps go on like that for years, it's just irritating.

 

Failing any of that, you need to investigate other rotating parts with bearings, such as the layshaft and input shaft bearings in the gearbox etc.

[double-6s 0]

If it's definately coming from the head area, then it seems unlikely to be the oil pump?

[Andy T 0]

Cheers guys.

 

I'll have to get under the car after a cold start and listen again.

 

Worn oil pump sounds preferable to it being something in the head, but its a noise i've never heard on any of the ageing 4 cyl. VW's i've owned. Annoyingly the G60 always sounded fine from cold.

 

The engine doesn't have to be that cold for it to happen either, it will be whining again after only 4 hours stood. It's quite embarassing especially when firing her up for people wanting to know what they sound like :oops: it sounds like a tired electric motor or a food procesor on slow :scratch:

[Mark_Storm 0]

I have exactly the same problem on mine. Always happens on start up, but is goes once the engine warms up.

 

I've had 3 1.8 VWs with between 80 and 175k on the clock and have never heard it on any of them. Haven't done much investigating but will have a listen and see if its coming from the same area.

 

Has anyone had, and rectified, this problem? Or are the possible causes suggested just best guesses?

[Andy T 0]

I've noticed that the whine gets quieter after about 5 mins and is non existent after a couple more mins, exactly the same each morning.

 

Not had chance to do a cold start with head under sump yet, but priced up a new oil pump at the stealers - £115 inc. vat.

 

Euro car parts list a genuine one at £105 inc. vat but states AAA eng. code so need to double check that its suitable.

[Andy T 0]

Has anyone replaced a VR6 oil pump recently and found the noise to go away, or found that the noise was caused by something else?

 

I was hoping that with the warmer weather it would disappear or at least become less noticeable on cold starts, but it's still noisy, even when setting off after work (8hrs stood) on a warm day.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep, I have, noise still there.

[dr_mat 0]

Given that all Corrado's do it (in my experience all VWs do it), why are you worried about it?

[A1 VR6 0]

I had a Golf VR6 about 14 years ago and I took it to the dealer for the same reason. They replaced the steering rack under warranty but I have to say the noise was still there as it is on my Corrado now when starting from cold. Really don't think this is a cause for concern.

[KieranM 0]

when cold my car whines, it's not the pwr steering pump as the wheels aren't turning, and it's not gearbox or any transmission cos it does it when not moving -

i always thought it was the isv? that's located near the throttle body at the back of the head, could it be this?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nope. As mentioned already, the noise appears to be coming from the back of the head because the oil pump whine travels up it's driveshaft, which mates with the intermediate shaft which is driven by the chain. All of these items except the int' shaft pulley / chain are at the back of the block just below the head.

 

Try a thicker oil and/or Ceratec engine additive and see if the noise quietens down.

[Andy T 0]

I know its a harmless noise but I've never had to put up with it before, and when I leave work I always get comments like, "Is it supposed to sound like that?" suppose I'm just in denial that i'm driving an old car!

 

Not heard of Ceratec, will look that one up, it's almost due for an oil change so will try that, the last owner filled it with some full synthetic stuff i've never heard of before, it may be that its very thin.

[Cnut 0]

I have noticed my VR6 makes exactly the same noise as mentioned, worse when cold but still there when hot but quieter. Just to let everyone know my dad has had a brand new R32 for a couple of weeks and it makes the exact same type of whine when cold so I think it must be a VR6-R32 thing!

[Andy T 0]

Mine is still making the noise, changed to Silkolene Pro-S synthetic oil but it didn't make any difference.

 

In summer the noise is less noticeable on warmer days. The noise has never got any worse, and it always disappears after five mins.

 

Nice to know it's there on R32's too, I doubt i'll ever get round to inspecting the oil pump!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep, and I have the R32 oil pump in my engine, which is exactly the same as the 12V, only shorter.....and surprise surprise, it whines when cold :D I've also test driven a brand new MK5 R32 and that whined from cold also.

 

Even if you take the serpentine belt off and run the engine, it will still whine.

 

It really is nothing a problem in the slightest.