The Forced Induction 16V Thread

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That's entirely admirable mate, bring on the Mrs Badtothebonecrumble :lol:

 

Not sure if you'll be able to refurb the turbo yourself without access to a balancing machine?

[mrbeige 0]

Not sure if you'll be able to refurb the turbo yourself without access to a balancing machine?

 

Hmmmm, maybe not then?? Would all turbo refurbs require balancing? I was under the impression that refurbishment is just a case of replacing bearings and seals?

[mrbeige 0]

Oil coolers?

 

Obviously with any trubo application some means to cool the oil is required. So could an OEM cooler off say a Saab 900 be used in conjuction with a sandwich plate?

 

Furthermore, where is the best place to take the oil feed for the turbo? Am I right in thinking that it would need to be from somewhere like the back of the block where the oil temp sensor is, where it would be under pressure? And would the return be ok going back to the sump?

[LowG 0]

DIY is always a good option as you learn best but when it comes to certain parts where precission is required Id stay away. You dont want to rebuild a turbo yourself if you never opened one, most likley you will blow it.

Turbo is the heart of a forced induction engine... enough said!

 

The oil can be taken from the right side of the head, if using non ballbearing turbo you dont need restrictior. As for oil cooler its always a good idea to have one to keep the oil temps low and help the life of bearings in turbo. Saab coolers and volvo ones are good and usualy generous in size, pick it go to hydraulic shop to get the fittings and good to go.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not sure if you'll be able to refurb the turbo yourself without access to a balancing machine?

 

Hmmmm, maybe not then?? Would all turbo refurbs require balancing? I was under the impression that refurbishment is just a case of replacing bearings and seals?

 

Unfortunately it's a lot more involved than that mate.

 

The turbine housing needs to be professionally checked for hairline cracking, but the bigger cracks (usually around the wastegate actuator with internal WG turbos) will be obvious - then you bin it and look for another.

 

The bearings and seals need to be fitted properly too, and the seals aren't seals in the normal sense of the word as they're made of metal.

 

The turbine/compressor shaft needs balancing to make sure it doesn't shake itself to bits at 100,000+ rpm. Depending on turbo size /spec, it'll be spinning at 10-15,000 rpm at idle, so you really want that puppy nicely balanced 8)

 

By all means get a knacker to take apart and study, but personally, I'd be fitting a new one, or a very low mileage s/hand one.

[Simon69 0]

Not sure if you'll be able to refurb the turbo yourself without access to a balancing machine?

 

Hmmmm, maybe not then?? Would all turbo refurbs require balancing? I was under the impression that refurbishment is just a case of replacing bearings and seals?

 

 

It depends, as has been said it's not the most simple of things and needs to go back together properly otherwise your oil consumption will rival your fuel consumption (that's assuming it rotates at all...)

 

As for balancing that's not quite so cut an dried, while theoretically true that any time you remove the compressor from the shaft it must be re-balanced on re-assembly, in practice a lot of turbo shops (and joe the mechanic's shop's) don't bother and most don't seem to be any the worse for it.

 

I myself re-built the turbo from my GT4 and it was not an issue, as has been said, I would get a cheap unit off e-bay and "have a play"

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[mrbeige 0]

Might have to get a cheapy one and have a play. I might even know someone who has the balancing gear!!

 

Thinking about oil again, would a turbo diesel sump already have an oil return in it and would it fit? AFAIK the sump is also bigger on a turbo diesel, so would the extra oil be a good thing or a bad thing?

[Simon69 0]

Thinking about oil again, would a turbo diesel sump already have an oil return in it and would it fit? AFAIK the sump is also bigger on a turbo diesel, so would the extra oil be a good thing or a bad thing?

 

Well yes, the GTD sump does have a return but we're talking about a return here, it's hardly a big deal to plumb one in.

 

Find a local store that does hydraulic service, they will be able to supply you the bits to do it, they will prob be able to order in Goodridge and / or Earls too should you feel the need for "name brand" pipe lol...

 

There will be differing opinion on were to plumb in, I am an "as high as possible return" advocate (even into the side of the block), others will say it's ok to go low i.e. under the oil level

 

I am actively considering removing the 2.9 and fitting 4 pot 16v as I'm something of a weight freak and certainly while it's 2wd a turbo 16v provides more than enough torque / power... Time will tell lol!

[mrbeige 0]

AFAIK the sump is also bigger on a turbo diesel, so would the extra oil be a good thing or a bad thing?

 

Well yes, the GTD sump does have a return but we're talking about a return here, it's hardly a big deal to plumb one in.

 

Am I right is thinking the GTD sump is bigger? And would the extra oil be a bad thing? People say to use the windage try from a turbo diesel too, just wondering what the purpose of a windage try is?

 

(Questions, questions, questions......off work ill at the mo, so brain is doing overtime!!)

[LowG 0]

Windage tray is meant to stop the oil from sloshing as the crank turns, causing extra drag on the crank specially on high revs. I would recomend one specially on a high reving 16v motor.

 

You can use your sump, weld a fitting on it end of story ....

[Yandards 0]

Well after a few weeks in the wilderness away from a PC I have some serious post catching up to do!

 

As for s2 rods mentioned about a page ago, they are better than 16v items when you compare the two, the s2 rods are a bit beefier than the valver items.

 

a 1.8l KR block will take s2 rods and pistons to give around 8.5:1 comp ratio using a 16v/G60 crank (same item)

 

As for a 16v G60 conversion dont use a PG block, VW didn't they used a KR one. I suspect the reason is the block breather on the KR is a highly efficient item compared to the PG's effort and you really need it to stop oil firing all over the inside of the engine bay.

[Simon69 0]

I suspect the reason is the block breather on the KR is a highly efficient item compared to the PG's effort and you really need it to stop oil firing all over the inside of the engine bay.

 

I think your right, the KR could still use a rocker breather though, last one I did (which is some time ago now!) I had the rocker milled for two 3/4 take-off's into a breather pot, never had any oil seal issues with that engine (in spite of a considerable quantity of N2O ran through it)

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[Yandards 0]

I suspect the reason is the block breather on the KR is a highly efficient item compared to the PG's effort and you really need it to stop oil firing all over the inside of the engine bay.

 

I think your right, the KR could still use a rocker breather though, last one I did (which is some time ago now!) I had the rocker milled for two 3/4 take-off's into a breather pot, never had any oil seal issues with that engine (in spite of a considerable quantity of N2O ran through it)

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

Yes, in an ideal world I would recommend a rocker breather as well, one at each end joined to a common line to prevent blockages.

 

Really good article on the whys of engine breathing here: Engine Breathing

[mrbeige 0]

Yes, in an ideal world I would recommend a rocker breather as well, one at each end joined to a common line to prevent blockages.

 

Really good article on the whys of engine breathing here: Engine Breathing

 

That's an interesting read Yan.

 

Quick question then, does the 2E block have the same crankcase breathing properties of the KR block then? Would one of those rocker (oil cap) breathers from the beetle be sufficient then, or would it be wise to put a further one at the chain end as well?

[Yandards 0]

I don't know about the 2Es breather but looking on ETKA is does appear to be a similar item.

 

I am going to use the beetle block breather on mine but am not going to bother with some vent down the chain end, the reason is that JMR did exactly that using a PG block with his 16v G60 and ended up having to use a baffle plate to keep some oil on the chain!

 

The solution on the link is an ideal one, it is also orientated more towards a motorsport end of the market. I would expect the combination of a beetle breather cap and a standard 16v block breather to be up to the task required of them.

[Simon69 0]

 

Really good article on the whys of engine breathing here: Engine Breathing

 

 

That article pretty much "hits the spot" with it's explanation, as you say, one each end.

 

As you clearly know, it's not so much the KR breathers design but it's size! It's just a really nice big breather with a pretty effective air / oil separator built in, I think (and to be honest I'd need to check to be 100%) that VW used the KR block in the single seaters they built for one of the German race series.

 

Of course none of this is any good unless it's plumbed into a pot and allowed to breath lol...

 

It would be interesting to plumb up the manometer to a KR with that Beatle oil cap breather fitted, just to see how effective it is!

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[Twiss 0]

this thread and many other threads I have read over the last few days have been great for info.

 

I would like to know ( as i havent found yet a list of parts I would need) what parts I would need to take my 1.8 16v engine out of my C and fit a G60 engine but remove the charger and fit a turbo?

 

If any one good help or point me to a thread with the info I need.

 

Thanks Vaughn

[Simon69 0]

I'd say you'd be better just turbo'ing your KR, rather than doing a swap and then turbo'ing the G60 motor...?

 

You'd need manifold, turbo and exhaust. Intercooler, inlet mods and a fuel rail, then an ECU, do a search on the MegaSquirt forums and you'll see a fair selection of people have turbo'd / MegaSquirted the KR with good results.

 

Others prefer to use a modified G60 ECU and the G60 loom, either way it will all retrofit (or can be retrofitted) to you KR.

 

Then just use a thicker centre section in a metal head gasket to bring the comp down a touch

[The Hub 0]

I'd say you'd be better just turbo'ing your KR, rather than doing a swap and then turbo'ing the G60 motor...?

 

You'd need manifold, turbo and exhaust. Intercooler, inlet mods and a fuel rail, then an ECU, do a search on the MegaSquirt forums and you'll see a fair selection of people have turbo'd / MegaSquirted the KR with good results.

 

Others prefer to use a modified G60 ECU and the G60 loom, either way it will all retrofit (or can be retrofitted) to you KR.

 

Then just use a thicker centre section in a metal head gasket to bring the comp down a touch

 

You make it sound like wee buns....... if only :lol:

[Simon69 0]

 

You make it sound like wee buns....... if only :lol:

 

;) well it is not that bad really, once you have the pile of bits it's just nuts and bolts like mechano... I've done 4 so it can be that hard if I can do it!

[Twiss 0]

Right

 

So I need the following to turbo my KR

 

S2 pistons to change compression to 8:5:1

Sirrocco manifold (inlet)

G60 management

custom exhaust system

Turbo

maf and knock senser?

and a stack of Cash

 

Any thing else?

 

Is the KR fuel pump ok to use? or would i need the g60 fuel pump?

[mrbeige 0]

Right

 

So I need the following to turbo my KR

 

S2 pistons to change compression to 8:5:1

Sirrocco manifold (inlet)

G60 management

custom exhaust system

Turbo

maf and knock senser?

and a stack of Cash

 

Any thing else?

 

Is the KR fuel pump ok to use? or would i need the g60 fuel pump?

 

I'm pretty sure the KR fuel pump is fine (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) as the K-jet fuel pressure is much higher than the digifant fuel pressure due to the nature of the injectors.

[Simon69 0]

K-Jet fuel pump is very good and will support BIG hp numbers when used in a conventional FI system (i.e. not K-Jet type)

 

If your trying to do it "on the cheap" I'd go for a spacer metal gasket and leave the rods / pistons alone (at least until you blow it for the first time lol). Scirocco manifolds cost a bloody fortune, just use the stock one (at least until you can afford a proper short runner "log").

 

G60 loom, management and sensors (unless your happy with your ability to MegaSquirt)

Custom down-pipe

Sprinter Van (or similar) Intercooler off eBay, plumb it in with some exhaust tubing and a few bends (again, off eBay)

 

Oh yea, you'll need a few quid, you'd be surprised how cheap it's possible to do it though!

[mrbeige 0]

I have a question regarding bearings. When I rebuild the 2e bottom end, is there any advantage to replace the standard crank bearings with diesel engine crank bearings or are they exactly the same?

[Corrado Euge 0]

I have just got my Corrado 16v Turbo back after alot of grief from being messed about for nearly 3 years by useless companies.Finally went to G-Werks who did an excellent job (Cheers Darren, owe you one).

 

Will get some pics posted soon with all the spec.

 

Alternatively my car will be at No-Rice in Guildford so come and have alook. :)