Mocal fitting advice on VR6

[black dub 0]

hi all, just thought id post some pics of my cooler now iv got it fitted finally and thanks to everyone for the help.

i ended up extending my power steering pipe along the front so i could use the whole that it used to go through for my cooler pipes.

 

Looks perfect and I'd like to do the same too, I was just wondering what size the cooler is?[/quote:2effg352]

 

 

thanks i wanted it to look spot on.

this is a 16 row cooler but i am now looking at getting a bigger 1 as now i have my charger on and remapped my oil is running just over 100c but that is with a lead right foot if you know what i mean. :lol:

[KADVR6 0]

Blackdub mine never went over 86 even with my charger on, and i do have a heavy foot :lol:

[black dub 0]

Blackdub mine never went over 86 even with my charger on, and i do have a heavy foot :lol:

 

my oil cooler is slightly smaller than yours (16 row) plus i removed my original water cooler. did you do the same?

[fla 9]

hi all, just thought id post some pics of my cooler now iv got it fitted finally and thanks to everyone for the help.

i ended up extending my power steering pipe along the front so i could use the whole that it used to go through for my cooler pipes.

 

Looks perfect and I'd like to do the same too, I was just wondering what size the cooler is?[/quote:1y9opgvn]

 

 

thanks i wanted it to look spot on.

this is a 16 row cooler but i am now looking at getting a bigger 1 as now i have my charger on and remapped my oil is running just over 100c but that is with a lead right foot if you know what i mean. :lol:[/quote:1y9opgvn]

 

100c is a good temp, black dub. it ensres any moisture is dispelled (which would otherwise lead to corrosion) whilst keeping teh oil viscosity at an optiaml level. I removed the oil-to-water cooler as it is not really that efficient, with those small pipes and basic plate operation.

[KADVR6 0]

Blackdub mine never went over 86 even with my charger on, and i do have a heavy foot :lol:

 

my oil cooler is slightly smaller than yours (16 row) plus i removed my original water cooler. did you do the same?

 

yeh the water cooler went straight in the bin.

[Storm Warning 0]

Would there be any risk of over cooling with a 19 row on a standard VR do you think? Sometimes lead footed but often stuck in traffic and the temps do climb quickly.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

as long as you have a thermostat housing it will be fine.

[mk2vivs 0]

i have the same kit comprising of mocal sandwich plate(thermo)setrab cooler and pipes etc.just wondered if you knew the pipe ive been sent that screws into the block ive screwed it in and a few threads are still showing.ive taken the old pipe out of my metal cap put the sandwich plate up to the block then screwed the cap on.it all tightens up but is it correct with that small amount of thread not into the block?

[Neil VR6 0]

I'm probably going to get a cooler kit from Merlin soon - am I right in thinking I can use straight connectors (x2) for the actual rad and 90 degree bends (x2) for the filter end?

 

Also I was thinking 16 row for normal road use too? (plus the all important thermostatic plate)

 

I was going to ditch the standard cooler/warmer too.

 

Any more pics gratefully appreciated, I was thinking of moutning in behind the grill so I can avoid taking the bumper off :)

[pete_griff 0]

I'm probably going to get a cooler kit from Merlin soon - am I right in thinking I can use straight connectors (x2) for the actual rad and 90 degree bends (x2) for the filter end?

 

Also I was thinking 16 row for normal road use too? (plus the all important thermostatic plate)

 

I was going to ditch the standard cooler/warmer too.

 

Any more pics gratefully appreciated, I was thinking of moutning in behind the grill so I can avoid taking the bumper off :)

 

i ditched the standard cooler (useless thing!).

 

if i was you, i would see how/where you're going to mock up the cooler before you do anything definitive with the lines.

you can check out the piccies in my thread to see how i mounted my 10-row if it helps (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=62901&start=105)

i have 90 fittings on both ends of the lines

 

no matter where you mount it up front, you'll almost certainly find things easier if you just take the front off (it really is a very quick and simple job once you've done it once or twice)

:)

[The_Dude 0]

Stealth mounted mine infront of the wheel on the bumper...not sure why they didn't put it in front of the radiator...maybe the FI has something to do with it.

Anyway its a good place to keep it out the way if space is an issue, though it does steam when its wet and you come to a stop. Scared the cr*p out of me when I first noticed it, a big cloud of steam coming up from the wheel well.

 

Its a 16 row and I don't have any issues on the m-way, if anything it has been running a little cold this winter. In traffic it builds as I'm not moving, which I guess having it infront of the radiator would solve?

[pete_griff 0]

Stealth mounted mine infront of the wheel on the bumper...not sure why they didn't put it in front of the radiator...maybe the FI has something to do with it.

Anyway its a good place to keep it out the way if space is an issue, though it does steam when its wet and you come to a stop. Scared the cr*p out of me when I first noticed it, a big cloud of steam coming up from the wheel well.

 

Its a 16 row and I don't have any issues on the m-way, if anything it has been running a little cold this winter. In traffic it builds as I'm not moving, which I guess having it infront of the radiator would solve?

 

no sure if that would solve it tbh - admittedly mine only has a piddly little 10-row, but it's not FI and the 24v/R32 engines run cooler than the VRs anyway. mine climbed to 114 when sat stationary and just letting the idle for ages.

it didn't go any higher and normally sits around the 96-98 mark when driving.

[Neil VR6 0]

Thanks chaps - I think I'll stick mine in front of the rad

 

I'm actually quite keen to retain the standard heat exchanger as it's helps the oil to warm up from cold. 'Mixing' the two liquids does make sense as the higher specific heat capacity of oil means the water warms the car's oil up.

 

Regardless of size an oil cooler won't prevent oil temps from climbing whilst stationary unless you fit a fan to it as no air will be drawn through it otherwise.

 

So, I've contacted a few places for quotes:

 

Merlin Motorsport - £225 using press on 'fir-tree' fittings and a 16 row cooler + thermo plate and extension bolt

 

G-Werks - ca £150 using press-on one end and swaged the other (so I can cut to length), 16 row cooler, thermo plate and extension bolt

 

Stealth - £300 (!) with swaged hoses, 16 row, thermo plate and extension bolt

 

I think I'll go for 90 deg bends as that seems to fit better with the engine bay dynamics

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Stealth mounted mine infront of the wheel on the bumper...not sure why they didn't put it in front of the radiator...maybe the FI has something to do with it.

 

Packaging really. I mounted my Mocal 13 row in front of the radiator shortly after I got the Rado and it was a fair bit of work. Slam panel and bumper off, fabricating of brackets, one off hoses etc etc. That's all labour you would have had to pay for :D

I found it was over cooling the oil in winter in front of the rad and had to block it off with a towel, LOL!

My second Mocal (first one rusted to schitt after 5 years) I put down in the wing where yours is and it sits at 96-102 most of the time, which is much better.

The advantage of down there is it's a lot easier and quicker to install, and therefore cheaper :D

 

Anyway its a good place to keep it out the way if space is an issue, though it does steam when its wet and you come to a stop. Scared the cr*p out of me when I first noticed it, a big cloud of steam coming up from the wheel well.

 

Sure that's not from your brakes? :D Although now you mention it, I've also noticed steaming from down there when it's wet outside!

 

Its a 16 row

 

Ah, which is why Stealth didn't put it in front of the rad. A 13 row only just fits...mm to spare!

[Neil VR6 0]

Interesting - so in front of the rad you get better airflow but it's more exposed to the elements (makes sense). Surely if you have a thermo' sandwich plate you can't get overcooling even if you're using an enormous cooling element?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Stealth - £300 (!)

 

Make sure the cheaper kits have the proper VR6 specific sandwich plate from ThinkAuto and genuine Mocal coolers.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Interesting - so in front of the rad you get better airflow but it's more exposed to the elements (makes sense). Surely if you have a thermo' sandwich plate you can't get overcooling even if you're using an enormous cooling element?

 

Yes but remember the sandwich plate opens the oil out to the elements at 80 degrees, or is it 70? Can't remember.... So it's possible for the MFA oil temp to be as low as 80-82 deg, which I have seen on a VR6 (not mine) in winter....which is far too cold / viscose.

 

The chance of that happening increases the more air flow you subject it to.

 

I guess you could customise the thermostat to say, 90-95 deg? That would prevent over cooling.

[Philmo 0]

For what it's worth:

Mine's a standard [?] Mocal sat in the nearside bumper and normally provides 94/96 deg on the move in summer but can get to 104 if pushed hard uphill or standing in traffic. It's relatively sheltered but will see some turbulence.

VAG-hag's is about 19 row, sat on slam panel in direct cooling flow behind a vented grille and has very rarely seen more than 100 deg, if at all. [standard+263's]

Both have the Mocal thermostatic sandwich thingy.

[Neil VR6 0]

Given the properties of oil you’ve just described I can’t see why there would be demand for a 70 degree thermo’ plate?

 

What’s the significance of a ThinkAuto thermo’ plate? Are they better quality?

[Neil VR6 0]

For what it's worth:

Mine's a standard[?] Mocal sat in the nearside bumper and normally provides 94/96 deg on the move in summer but can get to 104 if pushed hard uphill or standing in traffic.

VAG-hag's is about 19 row, sat on slam panel and has very rarely seen more than 100 deg, if at all. [standard+263's]

Both have the Mocal thermostatic sandwich thingy.

Where did you source your kit from?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Given the properties of oil you’ve just described I can’t see why there would be demand for a 70 degree thermo’ plate?

 

That's the standard opening temp unfortunately.

 

What’s the significance of a ThinkAuto thermo’ plate? Are they better quality?

 

Check with Vince. I'm sure he said Mocal custom make that part for VR6s and is why the kit is expensive (compared to 4 cyl kits), but I can't remember the exact details. He also uses very good hose, I've seen some kits provide hose that wouldn't stand up to water mains pressure, let alone the 10 bar oil pressure the VR6 can develop.

[Neil VR6 0]

Cool (excuse the pun). Cheers :D

[Philmo 0]

For what it's worth:

Mine's a standard[?] Mocal sat in the nearside bumper and normally provides 94/96 deg on the move in summer but can get to 104 if pushed hard uphill or standing in traffic.

VAG-hag's is about 19 row, sat on slam panel and has very rarely seen more than 100 deg, if at all. [standard+263's]

Both have the Mocal thermostatic sandwich thingy.

Where did you source your kit from?

 

Mine came with the car Neil.

VAG-hags hose & sandwich plate were std Mocal [2nd hand from Toad] and I think the jumbo cooler matrix came from Karl. [Maybe Chris will correct me on that.]

BTW the jumbo matrix came with odd threads on [a BSP and American mix] - readily sorted by a local hydraulics specialist. If anyone wants the name/No shout out.

[The_Dude 0]

Anyway its a good place to keep it out the way if space is an issue, though it does steam when its wet and you come to a stop. Scared the cr*p out of me when I first noticed it, a big cloud of steam coming up from the wheel well.

 

Sure that's not from your brakes? :D Although now you mention it, I've also noticed steaming from down there when it's wet outside!

 

 

Well at first I thought it was from the brakes, but I was crawling along in traffic and not really using them and it only came out the passenger side. I did stop and have a look and it was steaming gently. It put my mind at peace so to say!

 

 

Can't remember where I got mine from, can have a look when I get home if you want, but I got the custom pipes done by Stealth.

[Neil VR6 0]

I've just phoned ThinkAuto - presumably where Stealth source their kits from: http://www.thinkauto.com/

 

The chap quoted me up a kit which ditches the OE cooler (so I don't need a special long bolt)

 

ThinkAuto VR6 oil cooler costing (ditching OE cooler)

 

Quant Unit cost Total cost

Thermo plate 1 £33.20 £33.20

Blanking cover 1 £14.22 £14.22

Spigot 1 £4.23 £4.23

Cooler 1 £70.88 £70.88

Hose 2 £8.18 £16.36

90 deg fitting 2 £7.06 £14.12

Straight fitting 2 £2.28 £4.56

Adaptors 2 £1.32 £2.64

O-rings 2 £0.11 £0.22

 

Sub total £160.43

VAT £24.06

TOTAL £184.49

 

The plate opens at 80 degrees too

 

Apols for the formatting - it looked fine in the preview!