The Forced Induction 20V Thread

[Rob_B 0]

nothing wrong with the qpeng set up, it works perfectly well and is so easy to do. not expensive, i paid 720 for my kit and it was already mapped, made 220bhp on the rollers at the weekend. a remap on standard management is between 300 and 500, and that means you are getting the kit and know how for sod all, bargain if you ask me.

the power steering pipes do sit close to the front crossmember on mine, but when its all actually bolted up, they dont touch. if you run a solid mount its no problem.

the brake master cylinder is close to the cam belt cover, but neith part moves so no prob

ill try and take some pics of mine at the weekend, so if you want any particular pics let me know

[tim20vt 0]

anyone running qpeng had any problems with the map when on the rollers etc?

and did ya check it with a wideband afr gauge when you got it running?.

must agree that if i went down the audi ecu route plus a remap and the wiring it would have cost more than qpeng aslong as there map is right otherwise if you have to buy or hire the can box to map it ya self or take it to the rollers for mapping isnt gonna be so cheap.

soon find out how well it runs next week.

[Rob_B 0]

mine has been on the rollers with qpeng, and so has a friends and its spot on.

the engines are mapped on engine dyno's. the fuelling is cock on and there is no det. mine made good figures. the ,ap could be tweaked for more power, but thats the same for every generic map

[rado-steve 0]

nothing wrong with the qpeng set up, it works perfectly well and is so easy to do. not expensive, i paid 720 for my kit and it was already mapped, made 220bhp on the rollers at the weekend. a remap on standard management is between 300 and 500, and that means you are getting the kit and know how for sod all, bargain if you ask me.

the power steering pipes do sit close to the front crossmember on mine, but when its all actually bolted up, they dont touch. if you run a solid mount its no problem.

the brake master cylinder is close to the cam belt cover, but neith part moves so no prob

ill try and take some pics of mine at the weekend, so if you want any particular pics let me know

 

Didn't realise they are re-mapped when you send them away! Not bad value then really! But they don't let you run DBW do they???

[tim20vt 0]

no they dont do drive by wire altho i still dont like the idea myself i have a vison of it goin wide open by itself :)

the other benifit is im running 2 stage so i shud get 180 and 270 horse good for normal driving now fuel prices are stupid. :(

[Rob_B 0]

no they dont do drive by wire, which means you will probably have to source another throttle body (£130 for ECP). although this then means you dont have to convert the pedal box to drive by wire either. pro's and cons for both i guess. but the qpeng set up was far less work for me than putting all the factory clocks and ecu in. it wont give you a factory look like some people want, but i wasnt interested in that. a quick turn around (just over a week) was more important. it makes the engine systems alot simpler than the VW set up, as it eliminates alot of sensors from the equation, so you only use the sensors you actually need

[rado-steve 0]

no they dont do drive by wire, which means you will probably have to source another throttle body (£130 for ECP). although this then means you dont have to convert the pedal box to drive by wire either. pro's and cons for both i guess. but the qpeng set up was far less work for me than putting all the factory clocks and ecu in. it wont give you a factory look like some people want, but i wasnt interested in that. a quick turn around (just over a week) was more important. it makes the engine systems alot simpler than the VW set up, as it eliminates alot of sensors from the equation, so you only use the sensors you actually need

 

Can you still run VagCOM on it though???? Got mine running Std Corrado clocks so it looks very factory!

[Lee1873 0]

 

Can you still run VagCOM on it though???? Got mine running Std Corrado clocks so it looks very factory!

 

No you cant which is really the only drawback in going with the setup, they even offer free remaps if you upgrade your engine with o.e. parts 8)

[mistrall 0]

morning , just drove down to lands end and back from brighton and the car didnt miss a beat :) only thing is that i think i have a boost leak and good places i can check for this ? many thanks .

[junkie 0]

Id be checking the boost pipes :)

[Rob_B 0]

Id be checking the boost pipes :)

 

sounds logical to me!

[mistrall 0]

rofl ok ill go look :)

[junkie 0]

Best thing is just to re do all the fittings, as 1 of mine was half off and couldnt be seen due to positioning of intercooler and pipework.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

i think i have a boost leak .

 

Describe the symptoms.

 

Are you using the Bosch plastic diverter valve?

[junkie 0]

What is the N75 valve?

[tallpaul1977 0]

N75 valve helps control boost I belive. I replaced mine with a Audi S4 N75 which helps if you have tuned the 1.8T. Pop down to your local VW garage, should cost about £40 quid

[Kevin Bacon 5]

N75 is the boost control solenoid. It governs how much boost you get.

 

Long leg goes to the turbo inlet and the other 2 legs inline with the wastegate feed pipe. A PWM signal from the ECU (at 20hz usually) opens / closes the valve to hold the desired boost level.

 

8psi in the case of a standard AGU or BJX 1.8T engine.

 

VW recently upgraded it to the N75J, which is said to be smoother.

 

Two common sources of a surging feeling under boost are that crappy diverter valve and the N75. Replace the diverter with a forge 007p and fit the N75J aswell. All should be good and smooth again.

 

1.8Ts are a piece of Pee. All revo do is up the N75 duty cycle to deliver twice the boost and alter the timing a bit. And they charge £350 for that?! It's a scandal.

[Rob_B 0]

 

1.8Ts are a piece of Pee. All revo do is up the N75 duty cycle to deliver twice the boost and alter the timing a bit. And they charge £350 for that?! It's a scandal.

 

you are paying for their time to develop a map and test it though, not what they actually end up doing.

if you can do it yourself, it would be cheaper, but that can be said about all skilled labour cant it?

people moan about being charged £40 an hour for what i do, but if you can do it yourself then you wouldnt need to pay me. im sure you appreciate the effort that goes into mapping Kev. if you can map someones car for less then i would get out there and start making some money :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Sure, they have to figure out how to unlock areas of the maps and manipulate them, but they do it once.

 

I'd happily pay £350 for a custom dyno map, but not for a piece of generic code.

 

Still, £350 is small fry when you consider AMG charge £10,000 to unsolder the 155mph speed limiter chips from Mercedes ECUs :roll:

 

I'm all for rewarding hard work and honesty, but I won't pay inflated prices for off the shelf products.

[junkie 0]

Im not sure if i can replace the N75 valve on mine as it runs through the ECU boost control dial as well so not sure how it all wires up etc.

 

I never knew i had 1 either till i had all the paperwork out the other day.

[Rob_B 0]

Sure, they have to figure out how to unlock areas of the maps and manipulate them, but they do it once.

 

I'd happily pay £350 for a custom dyno map, but not for a piece of generic code.

 

Still, £350 is small fry when you consider AMG charge £10,000 to unsolder the 155mph speed limiter chips from Mercedes ECUs :roll:

 

I'm all for rewarding hard work and honesty, but I won't pay inflated prices for off the shelf products.

 

thats a fair comment, and i completely understand where you are coming from. i would still say that there is alot of work going into to unlocking the standard codes and mainipulating them. i was talking to an engineer the other day who had got hold of a manual 997 turbo for a remap. he is a revo dealer and revo hadnt got hold of 1 for mapping, so their lead engineer came down to write the map for it. they spent 2 weeks and 200 runs on the dyno along with road testing just to change the map and get 60bhp out of it. at 55quid an hour on the dyno + paying for a top engineer for 2 weeks, the costs add up!

i write software for machinery, and know that it can take ages to do the simplest thing, where the costs add up. that must be why they charge x amount for a generic map, simply because the development costs are big.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You're right, fair comments. I was down playing the work that goes into it, but if you do know what you're doing, then it is cheap and easy to make your own changes ;-)

 

60hp from all that work doesn't really seem worth it does it? Especially on a turbo engine already sporting a standard 500ish hp. Just goes to show how good a job Porsche made of it. Mind you, I think those variable nozzle turbos Porsche used are running close to the limit on the stock engine. A few 911 aftermarket tuners bin them and fit larger conventional turbos IIRC....

 

Still, I'm sure Revo gained a lot of knowledge from it and extended their repertoire.

 

The problem with generic code is you only have to have the cam timing slightly out (and therefore the sequential injection timing) and it completely throws the fuel maps. Stealth saw 440cc injectors running flat out at idle and part throttle on a VR6 turbo because the intermediate shaft was 90 degrees out!! The ECU adapted and most folk wouldn't notice, but on boost, it was massively underfuelling!

 

On an otherwise stock car with no tampering by the owner, then yeah, a revo or whatever should work quite nicely.....if they tone down the DBW mapping that is ;-)

[vr6t 0]

. Stealth saw 440cc injectors running flat out at idle and part throttle on a VR6 turbo because the intermediate shaft was 90 degrees out!! The ECU adapted and most folk wouldn't notice, but on boost, it was massively underfuelling!

 

How did that work? if you are getting 440cc injectors running at say 90% at idle, thats 396 cc x 6 = 2.376 litre per minute on batch, Thats running a lot of neat fuel :?

 

I am sure the injector cycle time you see is the actual time, the adpation is done before that.

 

Was the intermediate shaft out 90 Deg + or - ?

[Rob_B 0]

DBW is mapped so crap from standard though, it feels like the car is going to be a rocket from the first few cm of travel, then that is it!a real let down. then its also hard to modulate the throttle on part throttle, making pull aways embarrassing!

60bhp - 80bhp is what they got on the 911, but it was a safe 60. he then said by fitting a better flowing exhaust there was another 20bhp there, so the owner is doing that.

i guess that isnt too bad considering its still on the standard managment, would be more if you put standalone stuff in there. i would still like a go in it though! :lol:

 

i think they had fun on the road tests though!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

How did that work? if you are getting 440cc injectors running at say 90% at idle, thats 396 cc x 6 = 2.376 litre per minute on batch, Thats running a lot of neat fuel :?

 

I am sure the injector cycle time you see is the actual time, the adpation is done before that.

 

Was the intermediate shaft out 90 Deg + or - ?

 

I'll let Vince explain that one to you Dave ;-)

 

DBW is mapped so crap from standard though, it feels like the car is going to be a rocket from the first few cm of travel, then that is it!a real let down.

 

Yep! That's precisely how the girlfriend's Polo 1.8T behaves :lol: She doesn't mind it but it drives me up the wall. The 24V VR6s are mapped exactly the same. I prefer cable throttles 8)