EU 'should ban inefficient cars'

[jazzdevil 0]

One way to get 75% of interesting new cars off the road?!?! Also a pretty bizarre opinion from former head of Shell given last weeks mega-profit announcement, still I guess he's got his pension fund sorted by now... :?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7225451.stm

[dr_mat 0]

One way to get 75% of interesting new cars off the road?!?! Also a pretty bizarre opinion from former head of Shell given last weeks mega-profit announcement, still I guess he's got his pension fund sorted by now... :?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7225451.stm

 

Meh, I have evidence that my VR6 can do over 35mpg .. :)

 

Anyway, the guy has a point "no-one needs a car that does 10-15 mpg"..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Meh, I have evidence that my VR6 can do over 35mpg .. :)

 

Nearly all petrol cars do 99.9mpg on the over-run and most can do 35mpg at under 10% throttle. Not hard to achieve. My VRT can be as efficient as I choose to make it and that leads nicely onto my next point.....

 

Anyway, the guy has a point "no-one needs a car that does 10-15 mpg"..

 

Says who? The UK was a democratic nation last time I looked? It's not about needing it is it? Who needs McDonalds? Who needs KFC bargain buckets?

 

If we're going to start dictating how tax payers spend their money, let's start by banning cigarettes, alcholol and drugs? These items do cause immediate damage to humans, not some load of old lab coat hypothesis nonsense which the governments are supporting to further their own careers.

 

It's all well and good Mr Moody preaching what the Government should do; now that he's left and sitting on a gigantic nest egg, knowing full well a lot of the middle east's oil will run out in 2016. He can feck off if he thinks he can dictate what kind of cars we drive. Who does he think he's trying to kid with his "Oil giant turns greeny" tactic?

 

As I keep saying, if E85 was allowed out of it's cage, it would solve 90% of the problem.....but the government won't allow it and the oil companies won't allow it. So it does seem we are under dictatorship after all.

[dr_mat 0]

Anyway, the guy has a point "no-one needs a car that does 10-15 mpg"..

 

It's not about needing it is it? Who needs McDonalds? Who needs KFC bargain buckets?

 

Glad to see we agree as usual. ;)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL!

 

If we get rid of everything that stuffy old bastards say is bad for us, the world would be very dull indeed.

 

No sexy cars, no nice food and nothing remotely interesting, in fact. All we'd see on the 'roads' is identical plastic boxes running on tracks as portrayed by Minority Report and also Demolition Man. And we'd be like The Island and Equilibrium and will be banned from even dreaming about such pleasures :lol:

 

The world these film makers are predicting is rapidly turning into reality!

[VAG-hag 0]

Who needs KFC bargain buckets?

 

 

 

ME!!! So please keep it down, if they get banned how will I ever get through another hongover?!? :lol:

 

.... I suppose if they ban booze too that would not pose a problem though! :mad2:

[12 DEG BEN 0]

They have got to scrap car tax as a one off payment and instead add it to the price of petrol. That way there is a sliding scale of who pays what according to what you drive. Choose a range rover, Pay lots, Fiesta, pay little. It also means you cannot avoid paying road tax because you cannot not buy petrol. Also getting shot of the sorn declaration. Also if you pay all these yearly taxes on your car you would use it over buses and trains because you have paid for a year so you use it for a year. If I could leave my car on my drive and take a train into the city knowing that im paying no road fund license I would feel im not wasting money.

 

Paying exactly for the miles you use.

 

All this is based on trusting the oil giants to account for the extra tax they would have to collect and hand over. Never going to happen. The least trustworthy people on the planet!

[dinkus 10]

They have got to scrap car tax as a one off payment and instead add it to the price of petrol. That way there is a sliding scale of who pays what according to what you drive. Choose a range rover, Pay lots, Fiesta, pay little. It also means you cannot avoid paying road tax because you cannot not buy petrol. Also getting shot of the sorn declaration. Also if you pay all these yearly taxes on your car you would use it over buses and trains because you have paid for a year so you use it for a year. If I could leave my car on my drive and take a train into the city knowing that im paying no road fund license I would feel im not wasting money.

 

All this is based on trusting the oil giants to account for the extra tax they would have to collect and hand over. Never going to happen. The least trustworthy people on the planet!

 

I completely agree with the idea and I really don't understand why they don't do it like that now. over 80% of the cost of fuel is already tax, so what's another few % and a whole poop load less admin work?

[Ashun 0]

They have got to scrap car tax as a one off payment and instead add it to the price of petrol. That way there is a sliding scale of who pays what according to what you drive. Choose a range rover, Pay lots, Fiesta, pay little. It also means you cannot avoid paying road tax because you cannot not buy petrol. Also getting shot of the sorn declaration. Also if you pay all these yearly taxes on your car you would use it over buses and trains because you have paid for a year so you use it for a year. If I could leave my car on my drive and take a train into the city knowing that im paying no road fund license I would feel im not wasting money.

 

Paying exactly for the miles you use.

 

All this is based on trusting the oil giants to account for the extra tax they would have to collect and hand over. Never going to happen. The least trustworthy people on the planet!

 

 

dude some ppl only fix there cars at MOT time , just so they can get tax , so it makes them fix it keeping it safe

[corozin 0]

With modern ANPR technology there's no reason they couldn't scrap road tax and retain the annual MOT.

Of course if they did that a lot of people at DVLA (in Labour voting Swansea) suddenly woudn't have a job to do, but perhaps I'm just cynical...

[Andy665 0]

Another point to consider is what they define as "inefficient".

 

The Fox is economical but has to be transported from Brazil via Germany - whats the carbon footprint of that journey???

 

Surely someone running a 10-15 year old car that averages 28mpg has less environmental impact than a person who changes their car for a newly built one every 3 years but averages 35mpg

 

We pay stupid amounts of tax on fuel - if we then choose to run cars that are less economical than others then surely its our choice

[Valerian 0]

My Jeep only does an average of 16mpg.

Do i need it? That's a matter of opinion, but the roads are so bad were i live that i have to have it to get to some places i visit.

What people don't seem to realise is that if we all drive around in economical cars the Government will have to find the tax that

is lost somewhere else.

Where do you think they are going to find it?

Yup....£10 per gallon here we come.

 

It's a never ending circle.

The answer is to use an alternative fuel but that's not going to happen soon because that would have too much of an impact on the world economy.

No doubt if we all started to use LPG tomorrow they would tax us to the hilt on that.

[skinnyman9000 0]

Yup....£2 per gallon here we come.

 

I'll have me some of that :lol: :lol:

 

Seriously though, oil controls sooooo much of the world its unreal. IF the government wanted it then we could all be driving around in hydrogen powered cars by now, but if they do that they'll be buggered, hence why we're not.

[Valerian 0]

i must have been in a different time zone when i wrote £2 per gallon.......pfffft.

 

When i first started driving petrol was 35 pence per gallon.

If only.

[Jim 1]

You can understand the reasoning behind it though. Oil is running out, car makers don't seem to care and continue to build cars like the Audi RS6 with a twin turbo V10 engine, and the public sacrifice the cash to spend god knows how much a month on more and more expensive cars.

 

Despite being a true petrolhead, I understand something needs to be done. If it has to be a government rule then so be it.

[Yandards 0]

Another point to consider is what they define as "inefficient".

 

The Fox is economical but has to be transported from Brazil via Germany - whats the carbon footprint of that journey???

 

Surely someone running a 10-15 year old car that averages 28mpg has less environmental impact than a person who changes their car for a newly built one every 3 years but averages 35mpg

 

We pay stupid amounts of tax on fuel - if we then choose to run cars that are less economical than others then surely its our choice

 

Heh, we would be be restricted to some French crap, Honda Civics and a few Toyotas over here then.

 

There are plenty of ways to reform the current tax system but it wont happen as already pointed out because of jobs for the boys/girls in certain areas (It does happen that way) and a lack of will to reform without increased revenue.

 

Ultimately getting the school run types and low distance users out of cars would make a massive impact, after all I am confident that the vast majority of people using this forum used to walk to school.

[dr_mat 0]

You can understand the reasoning behind it though. Oil is running out, car makers don't seem to care and continue to build cars like the Audi RS6 with a twin turbo V10 engine, and the public sacrifice the cash to spend god knows how much a month on more and more expensive cars.

 

Despite being a true petrolhead, I understand something needs to be done. If it has to be a government rule then so be it.

 

Brave man sticking your neck out like that around here Jim. People usually gang up against you for saying things like that .. :)

 

I agree 100%. Something must be done. People can't just keep saying that "if I can afford it it's my right to consume everything I can till it runs out"...

Actually it's not your right to consume the last of a resource that everyone shares, because it IS my right to have a share of it too.

 

People get very confused about rights. Your rights end at the point where it effects another person, in any way, even indirectly.

 

Not that I'm claiming for a second that "banning inefficient cars" is the right approach, but it's certainly ONE approach, and it WOULD work.

[Yandards 0]

You can understand the reasoning behind it though. Oil is running out, car makers don't seem to care and continue to build cars like the Audi RS6 with a twin turbo V10 engine, and the public sacrifice the cash to spend god knows how much a month on more and more expensive cars.

 

Despite being a true petrolhead, I understand something needs to be done. If it has to be a government rule then so be it.

 

Brave man sticking your neck out like that around here Jim. People usually gang up against you for saying things like that .. :)

 

I agree 100%. Something must be done. People can't just keep saying that "if I can afford it it's my right to consume everything I can till it runs out"...

Actually it's not your right to consume the last of a resource that everyone shares, because it IS my right to have a share of it too.

 

People get very confused about rights. Your rights end at the point where it effects another person, in any way, even indirectly.

 

Not that I'm claiming for a second that "banning inefficient cars" is the right approach, but it's certainly ONE approach, and it WOULD work.

 

TBH it is only a small number of the likes of R8 that ever make it onto the road due to the cost involved, a lot of the owners of that sort of car don't use them during the week either, so the impact on such a move would be perfect for most Politicians - looks good in a headline but has very little impact. Like I said, real impact comes when you have an effect on the vast majority not the minority.

 

Resources are very finite but as the people that control them are happy to let us use all of them as it furthurs their own agendas and provides them wealth it wont change until they run out. Shell did buy up a lot of alternate fuel patents in the 70s and buried them as one example.

[Lufbramatt 0]

it would force manufacturers to really step up on the technology front- performance would still be a key factor to the consumer, so theyd just have to make fast cars that are efficient as well.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You can understand the reasoning behind it though. Oil is running out, car makers don't seem to care and continue to build cars like the Audi RS6 with a twin turbo V10 engine, and the public sacrifice the cash to spend god knows how much a month on more and more expensive cars.

 

Despite being a true petrolhead, I understand something needs to be done. If it has to be a government rule then so be it.

 

Brave man sticking your neck out like that around here Jim. People usually gang up against you for saying things like that .. :)

 

I agree 100%. Something must be done. People can't just keep saying that "if I can afford it it's my right to consume everything I can till it runs out"...

Actually it's not your right to consume the last of a resource that everyone shares, because it IS my right to have a share of it too.

 

People get very confused about rights. Your rights end at the point where it effects another person, in any way, even indirectly.

 

Not that I'm claiming for a second that "banning inefficient cars" is the right approach, but it's certainly ONE approach, and it WOULD work.

 

Should you two even be on a performance car related forum? Get yourselves over to Greenpeace forums you bloody hypocrites :lol:

 

The market place is customer driven. 2007 was a record year for Supercar sales and a lot of them came to the UK. Imprezas and Evos.....most of the come here. Prodrive and Ralliart are thriving businesses thanks to us Brits. MK5 GTI, S3, R32....all good sellers here. Big BMWs and Merc ML 500s, again, tonnes of them.

 

What does that suggest to you? Suggests to me that you and Jim are in a very small minority and you should clear off to Greenpeace with your 20mpg Corrado VR6 and see how welcoming they'll be :lol:

 

The solution is already here. E85. Does anyone even know what it is? Probably not.

 

Reduces Co2 emissions by 85%. Prolongs petrol supplies by 85%. Makes more power. Cheaper to produce. Sustainable.

 

So why the frig aren't we using it?

[12 DEG BEN 0]

Im not embarrassed to ask. What is E85 Cheesewire. Youve shown what it can do but not what it is. Is a a plant like alternative. Im always keen to learn.

 

Also the clean engine business has started. We are seeing small capacity turbo engines turning up like the 206 Gti and mini cooper collaboration. Its a very small start but that how it always starts. Think the diesel revolution. Im all for this but not at the expense of exotica which make my day just seeing.

 

And why dont greenpeace use sailing boats to patrol the worlds seas? Must use alot of tractor farmed rape seed oil to power there ships!

[Yandards 0]

I believe E85 is an Ethanol based fuel.

 

And anyway I am being environmentally friendly by using an already existing consumed resource and not buying a newer one ;)

[Jay2 0]

I think most people forget that owning and driving a car isn't a 'god given right' but a privalage. But unfortunately some people are more privalaged than others.

 

If you travel on public transport the vast majority of users are the elderly, teenagers and mothers with toddlers. People without the funds for a car, not eco warriors. :?

 

As per most of the other posts, this problem and everything else it relates to could be sorted tommorrow, but we are shafted by the powers that be, ie corporations, who are more powerfull than governments. Conspiracy, conspiracy....!! :D

[marcus 0]

E85:

 

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/wimrc ... ioethanol/

[dr_mat 0]

Right, so E85 is based on food produce, so you'd have a choice: eat, or drive.