Excessive Oil Useage + Major Engine Refurb Costs

[BILLCOR 1]

Since collecting my VR 10 days ago... I've done around 700 miles and it's taken 6 litres of oil.

 

Now Bill said that when I collected it, the oil level was fine (I have no reason to doubt him, although I didn't personally check, which I ought to have done). I drove it 300 miles home, and appeared fine, although there was A LOT of blue smoke when taking it above 5000 rpm.

 

The next day, went to Halfords to grab some supplies and the oil pressure light came on and the engine cut out, at traffic lights just before I got there. Started up fine and light went out, so drove the 200 metres there and checked the dipstick... was bone dry, so bought 5 litres of oil and it took 3 of those litres to take it to the mid-point on the dipstick.

 

Took my mate for a drive half hour drive, after which I gave it another litre to take it to the top of the dipstick.

 

Since then, I've checked the dipstick every other day, 5-10 minutes after turning the engine off, to allow all the oil to return to the sump, and it's always been between the lines, but I've topped it up when it's below halfway to nearly the top.

 

 

(I know I shouldn't have, but...) but last week I floored it when the engine was cold (I was trying to get through an annoying set of traffic lights before they changed, as they stay red for 3 minutes) and there was tonnes of blue smoke when it got above 3500 rpm, tonnes as in you could barely see the car behind.

 

In the last few days, once the oil temp is above 80, there's very little visible blue smoke until over 5500 rpm.

 

 

 

The exhaust is sooty, and quietly pops on overrun, so I suspect it's running pretty rich (haven't checked the spark plugs as that involves removing the Schrick manifold) but I'd guess they're black like the exhaust too.

 

 

Are these problems related? My mate thinks the burning oil might be to do with overfuelling, and if it's not he said it'll be valve stem seals.

 

Can anyone confirm this, or suggest an alternative diagnosis?

 

Just noticed this thread Ben :shock:

The head was only fitted in June after being fully refurbed with new stem seals, cam followers, valve seats recut, blahblah, the smoking issue before this was caused when the interior was changed, the car had sat for 4-5 months and the engine was never turned over :nono: resulting in the stem seals failing, before this, when the car was being used, it did not burn any oil whatsoever.

When the head was changed, a compression test was done and everything was fine, the bores etc were checked when the head was off and again all was good.

There is no doubt the car is over fuelling with the big bore throttle etc and that's why I said to get it remapped asap

I certainly hope that's where the problem lies as I paid a lot of cash just before selling it, supposedly to make it right :mad2:

[Ben-B 0]

Just noticed this thread Ben :shock:

The head was only fitted in June after being fully refurbed with new stem seals, cam followers, valve seats recut, blahblah, the smoking issue before this was caused when the interior was changed, the car had sat for 4-5 months and the engine was never turned over :nono: resulting in the stem seals failing, before this, when the car was being used, it did not burn any oil whatsoever.

When the head was changed, a compression test was done and everything was fine, the bores etc were checked when the head was off and again all was good.

There is no doubt the car is over fuelling with the big bore throttle etc and that's why I said to get it remapped asap

I certainly hope that's where the problem lies as I paid a lot of cash just before selling it, supposedly to make it right :mad2:

 

I'm hoping it's just the overfuelling too.

 

What I can't work out is why it's not smoking (visibly) when the oil is warmer than about 80 degrees, would have thought if it was piston rings, it'd be smoking consistently, or more when the oil is hot and thinner.

 

 

After these Comps, the remap is top of the list now

[oneohtwo 8]

I'll post on here the price when I get my car back. The garage called me yesterday and said he wasn't happy with a tappy noise coming from the top end of the engine so the head will be coming back off for investigation :(

 

I'd be interested to know this as well, in case mine needs doing later on. Sounds like it could be useful to a few people, and I'll change the thread title to include this as well so it's more easily found.

 

Glad to see the thread is being of some use!

[WigsVR6 0]

Mine is still in the garage (28 days now) and missing I'm it like mad. The mechanic now thinks the oil pump is the culprit. It's pumping more than 7 bar :shrug: so the relief valve could be the problem. Update when next available.

[WigsVR6 0]

Got the VR back yesterday after 1 months of enigine work :clap: . The total price came to £2300. I'll try to upload the photo's that I took of the bill with parts etc tonight when I get home. The engine runs quiet with no tapping noises at all and runs smooth as silk just got to run the engine in for 1000 miles at no more than 3500 revs.

 

Alan

[oneohtwo 8]

Good to hear it 's back and as good as you hoped :clap: Must be lovely knowing everything is new and solid; no hidden surprises!

[big ben 10]

what does £2300 include then, doesnt sound that bad price really

[Ben-B 0]

what does £2300 include then, doesnt sound that bad price really

 

I'm intruiged to know this...

 

 

On another note... my car doesn't seem to have used any oil at all since the end of last week... including the trip down to Compomotive, and back, as well as some "Crowd Pleasing" antics the other night

 

It's neck and neck with my mates Polo G40 up to 80mph though, we both thought I'd be pulling away rather quickly :(

[fla 9]

no comparison relly, the polo is much lighter and with a quick motor. What happens after 80 though :norty: :norty: Thats where i just love the VR linear power band, it just keeps pulling up to about 6k rpm when others run out of puff.

[Ben-B 0]

no comparison relly, the polo is much lighter and with a quick motor. What happens after 80 though :norty: :norty: Thats where i just love the VR linear power band, it just keeps pulling up to about 6k rpm when others run out of puff.

 

On paper though, the G40 isn't as quick to 62 as a Rado VR...

 

Neither of ours are standard though

[big ben 10]

turbo anyone? :tongue:

[WigsVR6 0]

Hope this helps and works. Took a couple of photos of the bill as the list is extensive.

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdf02092010011.JPG[/attachment:1akum737]02092010012.JPG[/attachment:1akum737]

[WigsVR6 0]

Ok its not the best outcome -caught between too small/large. Give me some feedback and I'll type it in for you all.

 

Good to hear it 's back and as good as you hoped Must be lovely knowing everything is new and solid; no hidden surprises!

 

Its a very nice feeling indeed. Its something that being a VR owner that you have ticking in the back of your mind all the time knowing that at some point the chains ect will need doing at some point. I also had low compression on cylinders 3 + 6 so getting both jobs done at the same time was a no brainer. However I have constantly been asking myself the question have I gone the right way about it. You can buy another VR for that price (2340) or stick another ABV lump in as a replacement. But I've pumped a fair amount of money into this car, mainly on the drivetrain, and I wasn't going to walk away from it. So I think I've done the right thing.

 

Alan

[pbradley98 0]

Hi Alan,

 

Few quick questions about your rebuild - looking at your receipt I couldn't see new pistons, just new rings? Did the rebuild include a rebore and fitting oversize rings to the existing pistons?

 

Also where abouts did you get this done? The rings on my VR are starting to go on Cyl 6 (telltale oil on the sparkplug) so I'm starting to weigh up options for what I do with the engine and from the sounds of things am in a very similar situation to what you were, as have carried out a lot of other work over the years that make me want a rebuild rather than risking it all again with buying another VR6....

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Ben-B 0]

Am I right in thinking you had the engine "fully rebuilt" at that price?

 

I am considering that now... buying a second 2.9 VR lump and getting it fully rebuilt, having the new gearbox (6-speed, with LSD, billet flywheel and paddle clutch) fitted to it at the same time, then a simple replace job and sell the old engine/gearboxes on to recoop(sp) some costs.

 

As I still have my old car parked outside, which I'm selling this month hopefully, I should have the money to do that I think.

[WigsVR6 0]

Am I right in thinking you had the engine "fully rebuilt" at that price?

 

Hi Ben I'm not sure what you mean by fully rebuilt. I had the bores de glazed these came out looking great with no sign of scouering, lipping or oval shapped bores on cylinders 1+6. I had all the head serviced including skimming, Valves reworked oil stem seals and hydrolic buckets replaced however the latter dont normaly get changed its just that I had a problem with mine which led to the head having to come back off. Also the oil pump was replaced as the old one had a problem with the PRV.

 

Cheers Alan

[dukest 0]

no piston rings or bearings included in that then?

[WigsVR6 0]

[/quno piston rings or bearings included in that then?

ote]

 

Hi dukest yes new piston rings are included not sure which bearings would be replaced though :shrug: Each bore was measured then rings were ordered to match. Dont forget that the timing chains and tensioners + clutch were also included for that price.

 

Alan

[Ben-B 0]

Am I right in thinking you had the engine "fully rebuilt" at that price?

 

Hi Ben I'm not sure what you mean by fully rebuilt. I had the bores de glazed these came out looking great with no sign of scouering, lipping or oval shapped bores on cylinders 1+6. I had all the head serviced including skimming, Valves reworked oil stem seals and hydrolic buckets replaced however the latter dont normaly get changed its just that I had a problem with mine which led to the head having to come back off. Also the oil pump was replaced as the old one had a problem with the PRV.

 

Cheers Alan

 

I mean the engine completely stripped down and taken to bits, all the gaskets/seals/rings/etc replaced, all the skimming done and bearings if necessary... that kinda stuff to essentially make it a zero-mileage engine

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Sounds to me like it was stripped down, honed and re-ringed, so not a full rebuild.

 

You can do that if the bores aren't ovalised and still within the diameter tolerance, but personally, I would always start over with a rebore and new pistons etc. If I was doing a 12V build again, I would also drill out the ball bearing water / oil way bungs and clean all the crap out the builds up behind them.

 

But it all adds cost. Mahle 82.5mm over bore pistons would have added a further £600 (with a 3 month wait last time I checked) to that £2300 bill, plus ~ £40 per bore for the block machining.

 

It's at this point that low mileage 24Vs are starting to look very attractive. Some people like to stick with the 12V though and I can appreciate both sides.

[Ben-B 0]

Sounds to me like it was stripped down, honed and re-ringed, so not a full rebuild.

 

You can do that if the bores aren't ovalised and still within the diameter tolerance, but personally, I would always start over with a rebore and new pistons etc. If I was doing a 12V build again, I would also drill out the ball bearing water / oil way bungs and clean all the crap out the builds up behind them.

 

But it all adds cost. Mahle 82.5mm over bore pistons would have added a further £600 (with a 3 month wait last time I checked) to that £2300 bill, plus ~ £40 per bore for the block machining.

 

It's at this point that low mileage 24Vs are starting to look very attractive. Some people like to stick with the 12V though and I can appreciate both sides.

 

My mate is an old schooler, and he's begging me to stick with a 12V... I'm thinking I will do anyway, but apparently the 24v don't sound anywhere near as good

[iceviolet 0]

Ben-B, have you checked out my VR6 Rebuild thread if you do the labour yourself you can do it for quite a bit less. I did a complete rebuild using an AAA block and boring to take the 2.9 pistons. Think theres some prices in there somewhere too. May be useful

http://www.the-corrado.net/.archive/forum/viewto ... 11&t=73564

[Kevin Bacon 5]

My mate is an old schooler, and he's begging me to stick with a 12V... I'm thinking I will do anyway, but apparently the 24v don't sound anywhere near as good

 

Ooh I dunno about that mate!. I've followed Heresites (R32 corrado) a few times, driving hard, and his sounds epic on full chat :D

[herisites 0]

My mate is an old schooler, and he's begging me to stick with a 12V... I'm thinking I will do anyway, but apparently the 24v don't sound anywhere near as good

 

Ooh I dunno about that mate!. I've followed Heresites (R32 corrado) a few times, driving hard, and his sounds epic on full chat :D

 

You mean mine was driving hard and yours was just ticking over :lol:

[Ben-B 0]

My mate is an old schooler, and he's begging me to stick with a 12V... I'm thinking I will do anyway, but apparently the 24v don't sound anywhere near as good

 

Ooh I dunno about that mate!. I've followed Heresites (R32 corrado) a few times, driving hard, and his sounds epic on full chat :D

 

That's an R32 not a 24v VR though? Isn't a "24v conversion" essentially just using the Mk4 head (I know there's a lot more to it than that, but it's not essentially a completely different engine is it?)