Kevin Bacon 5 Posted June 3, 2011 Time for an update whilst I'm online and the beers are flowing :D The car has been like this March. Not because I fancied using the engine space for some pot plants, but because I had some detonation problems. I still haven't found out what caused it, everything checks out fine, but just to be sure I'm going to dump the current tank of fuel and put some fresh stuff in before it runs next. Unfortunately the det caused piston 5 to let go...... ..... which spat itself through the turbo, slightly clipping the turbine blades. It still boosts fine, but I'll send it off to CR turbos for repair as it's not balanced in that state. The block is still perfect after 60K miles, no wear lip at all and no barrelling. Good old Silkolene :D A new Wossner piston costs £99 and that's all it needs to be perfect again, which the new owner of the engine is going to do. So what's next? In the meantime, I'm going for high power n'asp 24V as I had a spare AUE lump (4Motion) sitting in the garage. Haven't decided on the final spec yet, but I'm aiming for top end. Lightweight valve gear, cams etc etc. Aiming for 100hp/litre, 300 at a push with an 8000rpm limit and a short runner, but nothing's finalised yet. All I've done to that so far is paint it! The Schimmel 9lb flywheel and Helix clutch will be going on as boost is bound to happen in the future! And United Motorsport (formally C2) made this superb downpipe for me. 2" primarys and 3" collector for some proper high rpm flow. Sweet :D I will be sticking with my standalone and to that end I have installed a DBW controller for the 24V's electronic throttle into the Glovebox. 4Motion DBW pedal installed too. I tested the DBW on the old engine and it worked brilliantly. It gives the bottom end a welcome kick up the bum, something the 12V needs! Much neater with no throttle cable coming out of the bulkhead :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim 2 Posted June 3, 2011 Interesting progress as ever Kev.. can't wait to see this progress :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted June 3, 2011 ^ Same here, will be interesting to see how much hp you can get NA! Did you just bolt the 4 mo pedal to the side of the pedal box bracket? Thats what I did, works well and simples. Nice downpipe and well made, can't help thinking it goes into one a bit to soon though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KADVR6 0 Posted June 3, 2011 nice down pipe, and oh yeh get yourself a spare pedal mate, my brothers old 4 motion went through two in about 3 months as they both snapped where the plastic meets the metal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted June 3, 2011 Sorry to hear of your det problems with the DTA, Kev. Funny that that's exactly what happened to mine. My no.4 piston looked exactly like your no.5. At least your block is reusable and will live to fight another day. I suppose I was fortunate that there was no damage to my turbo. Will be interested to see how you get on with the 24v lump in NA form. You should catch up with John Munyard (corozin) on here who has some experience of trying the high power NA route, albeit with the 12v. Best of luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted June 6, 2011 Cheers chaps. I've changed my mind and decided to stick the turbo lump back in :D No matter how much power I could get out of a NA 24V, I just know it won't be enough for me, so I'd rather put the investment into turbos instead! Cheers Charlie. Unfortunately the 12V doesn't lend itself well to n'asp tuning and I'm aware of the flow brickwall Mr Munyard ran into. Having said that, although the 24V's head flows more than the 12V's, it's still not spectacular by modern 4 valve standards. Kip, yeah sort of, plus a bit of chopping and shaping :lol: RE the downpipe, the primaries merge into the collector at roughly the same place the 12V pipes do and it's been designed to bolt onto an existing 12V Cat to be as plug n play as possible, but it's all academical now. I'll bolt the 24V back together and stick it in storage again, awaiting the next 12V outage :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 24, 2011 Haven't done a lot on it lately, but decided to get the 24V built up and out of the way today. Timing up a 24V bottom end is exactly the same as a 12V. TDC on No.1 cylinder. Notch in the crank pulley aligns with a rib on the front crank seal housing..... Crank sprocket has a ground tooth which aligns with the rear main bearing cap.... Same lower tensioner and chains..... And the intermediate shaft position. The arrow aligns with a notch in the block.... And remember guys, the intermediate shaft only aligns correctly once every 4 turns of the crank. A very common mistake people make with VR6 timing :D Block is great after 135K. Bores are a little polished but nothing out of the ordinary. 24V blocks and heads clean up a LOT better than 12V ones do... Negligable valve stem wear. Valves and valve seats look A1. Living proof that VAG's 20K oil services aren't as bad as people think. ARP rod bolts thrown in.... ARP head bolts popped in and head torqued up. C2 downpipes offered up and they are spot on. Really happy with those. Schimmel 264 cams arriving on Monday and I also need to replace the intermediate pulley as they're a weak spot on the 24V, but it's back ordered. I'll go through cam fitment and timing in the next instalment :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim 2 Posted July 24, 2011 Cool - nice update Kev :) Never get bored of reading this build threads! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KADVR6 0 Posted July 24, 2011 coming along nicely Kev, still deciding wether to stay 12v or get a 2.8 24v and get Graham to get it running properly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Bowen 1 Posted July 25, 2011 wish i had these skills, looks great, must be satisfying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 25, 2011 coming along nicely Kev, still deciding wether to stay 12v or get a 2.8 24v and get Graham to get it running properly. Yeah I have that same indecision as well! Ideally I'd like to turbo the 24V but it's a complete change of turbo hardware and manifolds, exhaust etc, which I don't really want to get into at the moment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormchargedVR6 0 Posted September 7, 2011 sorry to hear about you motor letting go mate , get that 24v in and turbo on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted September 8, 2011 Sh#t happens mate. A good excuse to evolve the car :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wy906 0 Posted September 8, 2011 How did I miss this? :( Onwards and upwards Kev! All the best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted September 8, 2011 I slipped under the radar :lol: MK5 R32 install in progress, hot cams, standalone, all the juicy stuff :D 24Vs are a complete pain in the behind. I think a 24V tech info thread is required to keep track of the numerous differences between the 24Vs, which I will start soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazrad 0 Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) R32 is a great engine - no doubt about that. All the best bits of the VR6 carried across but the design updated, VVT and modern management which will take a remap when you get around to fitting forced induction. One thing to consider when you eventually go down that route (and you surely will: once you've had a turbo you can't go back to standard torque delivery) I think the idea of fitting the turbo into the exhaust under the back of the car is an interesting one. It brilliantly uncomplicates the install and you can do away with things like an intercooler. Its also a relatively quick install with minimal fabrication and no messing around with complex and precisely made down pipes to fit into tight spaces. And best of all: you'll be able to open the bonnet and no one will know its turbo'd if you keep the standard inlet manifold and cleverly route the turbo to TB inlet pipework. The alternative would be a rotrex which I believe works really well on the R32 and R36. Again, its a more straightforward install and a remap (United Motorsport can sort you out) of the standard ECU will see you right and will retain all the functionality and protection afforded to the engine by the standard sensors. Looking forward to hearing more about this as it progresses, Kev. I just love the noise an R32 or R36 makes and would happliy fit one into my Mk3 when the the standard VR finally becomes uneconomical to repair. Edited September 8, 2011 by chazrad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonard 0 Posted September 8, 2011 Kev why arent you fitting the new Audi 5 cyclinder out of the TT RS! Apart from the ridiculous cost obviously... LOL R32 block will be amazing and easily tuned to stupid amounts of bhp, when are you going 4wd ;) Look fwd to reading about progress Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coullstar 0 Posted September 8, 2011 R32 is a great engine - no doubt about that. All the best bits of the VR6 carried across but the design updated, VVT and modern management which will take a remap when you get around to fitting forced induction. One thing to consider when you eventually go down that route (and you surely will: once you've had a turbo you can't go back to standard torque delivery) I think the idea of fitting the turbo into the exhaust under the back of the car is an interesting one. It brilliantly uncomplicates the install and you can do away with things like an intercooler. Its also a relatively quick install with minimal fabrication and no messing around with complex and precisely made down pipes to fit into tight spaces. And best of all: you'll be able to open the bonnet and no one will know its turbo'd if you keep the standard inlet manifold and cleverly route the turbo to TB inlet pipework. The alternative would be a rotrex which I believe works really well on the R32 and R36. Again, its a more straightforward install and a remap (United Motorsport can sort you out) of the standard ECU will see you right and will retain all the functionality and protection afforded to the engine by the standard sensors. Looking forward to hearing more about this as it progresses, Kev. I just love the noise an R32 or R36 makes and would happliy fit one into my Mk3 when the the standard VR finally becomes uneconomical to repair. Ive seen a few remote turbo cars, it seems quite a straight forward thing to do and would be something different. I think as it relatively easy to turbo on a VR / V6 then we wont see one of these unless someone really wants to. A highly tuned NA R32 would be great, it just needs a little more top end punch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KADVR6 0 Posted September 9, 2011 BMW were doing remote turbos in the late 70's and eighties. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted September 9, 2011 You're right about the noise of the R32, have a listen to the clip on this very well executed conversion!! - http://www.r32oc.com/members-rides/26654-corrado-r32.html It's half way down page 1 IIRC. Yeah a rear mounted turbo could be fun!! That method is definitely gaining popularity in the states! I would like to explore the NA tuning route first though as I think there's quite a bit of untapped power hiding in there. I would love to install the TT/S3 RS engine! Capable of over 400hp out of the box!! It's a bit too complex and expensive for my tastes though! The trouble is, car manufacturers are big on 'driver demand' mapping these days. The ECU takes readings from steering angle, Yaw, ABS, throttle position and Haldex sensors and calculates the best amount of torque to deploy for that set of circumstances, 100s of times a second. All very clever and safe, but not really my cup of tea, so the standalone is staying for now :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormchargedVR6 0 Posted September 9, 2011 I miss my VRT but do enjoy the R32 , its so much smoother. 24v all the way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) Thought I'd sprinkle my thread with a few updates.... The R32 motor went in recently, with a standard VR6 gearbox, standard 12V flywheel and a Helix clutch. I was going to retain my Schimmel 9lb flywheel but I think the R32's response is a little too fast as it is! It's a 2007 BDB lump from an Audi of some description and had been left in a garden for 2 years, so it was stripped, de-rusted, checked for wear, flex-honed and reassembled with new chain gear. It cleaned up rather well I thought :D United Motorsport big bore down pipes to help with my hp hunting goals :D Very happy with the way they fit. I had to bore out the 4Motion manifolds though because R32 heads have 33mm square exhaust ports and 2.8s have 31mm wide oblong ports, so I didn't want any steps in the exhaust path causing hot spots so close to the combustion chambers. Naturally some Schimmel products will feature on this engine, such as his 268/264 cams. Steel billets, not cast :D ...and this 600hp capable in-tank fuel pump, which is a Bosch 040 with a special adapter allowing fitment into the the stock pump housing. I like! Some pics I managed to capture during the build up.... ARP Rod bolts, of course! Always do them when you have the oppurtunity.... saves a lot of faff in the future. Timing up an R32 is identical to a 12V in the bottom end... ... but the cams are much trickier to get right.... VAG have added some brass links in strategic locations to help time them up properly. Proper VW cam locking tool, which I recommend... Count 16 chain rollers between the arrows on the VVT variators.... again, the brass links help you do this. The reluctor rings on the variators need to be turned fully clockwise before fitting onto the cams. Here's something you don't see every day, a stripped down R32 head! This is why 24Vs are so quiet. Roller cams! Rather than the tappets pushing the valves down directly from above, small rollers follow the cam profile and push the valves down via little arms instead, which = zero valvetrain clatter :D Other advantages of this method include a big reduction in valve guide ovalisation, and you don't have to replace the tappets when changing cams! Tappet on the left (tiny compared to 12V's), roller on the right... ...and the two married together... And with the cams and rollers installed... Sorry if that was dull :D I think the 24V is a masterpeice of engine design, which I didn't fully appreciate until I stripped it down! Edited September 22, 2011 by Kevin Bacon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robo22sri 10 Posted September 22, 2011 you my friend have some skills! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poll250 0 Posted September 22, 2011 Really good read as ever Kev! I guess your appreciation of the 24v is due in part to your familiarity with the 12v, so you can notice and understand the changes a lot more. When are you looking to get it started up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KADVR6 0 Posted September 22, 2011 awesome as always Kev, PLEASE can i have a go in it when its running. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
