Carbon Fibre Stuff - 3d scanning Updated 23/01/11

[BigTartanJudge 0]

I would be very interested in a carbon rear spoiler and number-plate surround :D

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Any progress on this ?

[badgerman 0]

I have potentially sorted a supplier of the carbon (and its a great supply! I will reveal more once we are a bit further on ;) ) and I am in the process of sorting a facility and equipment to do the job. At the moment the guy is away until next week so I won't be able to firm anything up until then.

 

It is moving, but as fast as it can outside of a full time job and alongside freelance work too! I am dead keen tho as it will be another skill for me and like I said, the material could be top notch so watch this space. . .

 

I will keep this thread updated a bit more even if it is not progressing so those interested stay informed.

[SIMONG 0]

cheers for the update, glad to hear this is still going ahead.

[badgerman 0]

cheers for the update, glad to hear this is still going ahead.

 

Don't get your hopes up yet! My main issue at the moment is finding a place to do this work. I have a couple of options currently so I am optimistic.

[Dude VR6 0]

Looking forward to seeing the results of your hard work, and at what cost you'll be knocking them out at. If they come out looking like an F1 rear wing then I'll be up for one.

[badgerman 0]

Looking forward to seeing the results of your hard work, and at what cost you'll be knocking them out at. If they come out looking like an F1 rear wing then I'll be up for one.

 

Lol! Yeah, F1 wing might be a stretch but it should look pimp. I have my work cut out for me at the moment as I have a load of trimming going on, freelance CAD design work, my day job and also this investigation into Carbon moulding! And the carbon moulding will be for 2 products too (front wings and rear spoilers). I love it tho, keeps me entertained!

[badgerman 0]

Ok, another little development. I have been talking to a guy who apparently is the UK's biggest manufacturer of surf Kayaks. He is fairly tooled up, and after a long discussion a couple of things came up.

 

Firstly, he is looking to immortalise some of his hand crafted designs in CAD so that future designs can be modified from a digital pattern - which would be totally irrelevant if I weren't a CAD designer! Hopefully, all things being good, I can exchange my CAD services for the manufacture of tooling to make some wings - which would otherwise cost a substantial amount of money.

 

Secondly, we got to discussing materials and he said they use kevlar in their kayaks and he thought it would be very good for the job of car panels. And of course he has sh*t loads of it there too, along with glass fiber and an assortment of other bits and pieces. If this is as good a connection as I hope, by getting the tooling it will allow me to experiment with the differing materials and asses how light I can get the parts while maintaining rigidity and strength.

 

I am enthused by this new contact. I can get tooling made to a standard I wouldn't be able to achieve and then either sub the work to him or potentially get involved myself. The main point is the guy is tooled up with a wealth of knowledge.

 

He was even considering buying a G60 a while back so maybe I can persuade him to get one thus increasing his interest further! I am going for a lie down now because his premesis was vapour central and it feels like I have just done 20 bongs through petrol.

[8vMatt 1]

All sounds like great progress there mate. Keep up the good work, interested to see this developing further. :)

[badgerman 0]

Ok, after noticing the thread "Difference between early and late front wings?" I have seen a potential flaw in my carbon front wing project. At the moment I am trying to sort a deal to make a set of tools to do some G60 wings - only because the are the only ones I can get hold of at the moment. I am not really in a position to make loads of tools especially if there is a small demand for one or the other.

 

So which wings do I go for? Do I need both? Opinions welcome.

[davidwort 0]

I'd say go for the late wings first, and perhaps do a trial fit of one of them onto an early bonnet car, g60's had both early and late wings and late wings are on more cars and offer slightly better wheel clearance. It may be that the bonnet side line is near enough for a pair of carbon late wings to fit an early car fine.

[badgerman 0]

I'd say go for the late wings first, and perhaps do a trial fit of one of them onto an early bonnet car, g60's had both early and late wings and late wings are on more cars and offer slightly better wheel clearance. It may be that the bonnet side line is near enough for a pair of carbon late wings to firt an early car fine.

 

Damn you, I was worried you'd say that! I am going to have to source some now because I think the G60 I was going to get them off is an Early one. Actually, it is a left hand drive one too if that makes any difference. I can go with that plan as I have an early 16v to test fit wider arches on.

 

So any ideas on when the change over happened on the G60 so I can identify if it has wide arches or not?

[JMC 0]

Mines a 92 G60 (J reg) and has late wings and bonnet. Changeover was midway through 92 from memory.

[samthegram 10]

I am deffo interested in a rear spoiler (o.e style) . Keep us posted , so long as it is cheaper than the Performance trim one - £300!!! :shock:

[badgerman 0]

I am deffo interested in a rear spoiler (o.e style) . Keep us posted , so long as it is cheaper than the Performance trim one - £300!!! :shock:

wow, 300 is a lot! I will try my best ;)

[Riley 0]

Just for your info mate, G60's had a mixture of early and late front wings in the changeover year. :)

 

Neil.

[8vMatt 1]

As you're looking at the front wings, would it be worth not doing such a lip on the edge of the arch? Lots of people want to roll/ cut back the return on the arch for wheel clearance. Just a thought.

[badgerman 0]

As you're looking at the front wings, would it be worth not doing such a lip on the edge of the arch? Lots of people want to roll/ cut back the return on the arch for wheel clearance. Just a thought.

 

Had considered that, It will also help in the moulding process to reduce the depth of those edges anyway. Good call.

[badgerman 0]

Just for your info mate, G60's had a mixture of early and late front wings in the changeover year. :)

 

Neil.

 

Hmmm, bugger.

[SIMONG 0]

would the early or late wings not be the same where they meet the bonnet? i thought it was the shape/line of the "bubble" part of the arch which was different?

[badgerman 0]

would the early or late wings not be the same where they meet the bonnet? i thought it was the shape/line of the "bubble" part of the arch which was different?

 

Hmmmm, without startin parallel threads here, I would welcome any further knowledge on the subject. . . hang on, I will go check the other thread!

[KipVR 1]

 

Secondly, we got to discussing materials and he said they use kevlar in their kayaks and he thought it would be very good for the job of car panels

 

Hi pal, good to see your enthuiasm for such things :D :D

 

I'm not so sure on using kevlar for car panels though. I used to use carbon and kevlar on a fairly regular basis on vehicles, you can laminate the kevlar in with the carbon, and this is regularly done for wheelarch liners and other areas that get hit by stones etc. The trouble is though is that kevlar is much heavier than carbon, and so negates any weight saving over thin steel panels like the front wings. However a carbon kevlar laminate would be good for a chin spoiler, but the resin would probably still chip if a stone hit it, as you'd want the carbon at the front on show I should think.

 

Also to consider is the resin properties, those that want the bare carbon fibre look will want a different impregnated resin to those that want their parts painted. It's been a while since I've worked somewhere that wants the bits painted but seeing the weave pattern thought the paint used to be a major headache for oem's etc.

 

We used to scan parts in with a handyscan, edit them in Catia, and then send the file straight out to be machined from a foam block. A carbon mould is then made from this. Got great results every time.

 

Now I'm working for an armouring company, seeing them press 10mm think panels that look identical from the outside to the 'original' panel is seriously impressive. It's all a bit heavier though :D :D

 

I'm looking forward to seeing your finished parts!!

[badgerman 0]

Hi pal, good to see your enthuiasm for such things :D :D

 

Cheers Kip, thanks for your input, I am properly on a journey of discovery right now!

 

Everyone I have spoken has a different perspective to add to all this - it's fascinating. For example kayak guy was adamant that moulding in kevlar would create parts significantly lighter than steel (maybe not as light as carbon) but for a fraction of the cost of carbon. Bold claim, I guess the only way to see if he is right is to have a go! I did think that some of the more 'out there' scene junkies might enjoy a black and yellow weave front wing!!

 

There is an argument to say that there is a market for comparative (to steel) weight GRP front wings with inner lip cutaways for low low cars as much as the super light weight racing parts - especially as front wings in good condition seem to be in demand. I want to explore the material properties and hopefully be able to tailor different types of product for different applications. Another good example is a friend of mine that makes drift kits for a Jap tuner with his own team. All he wants is disposable relatively low cost bumpers, skirts etc as they will probably only get ripped off at some point!

 

As I understand it, a 120g (for example) sheet of any material weighs the same (obviously . . . ) so ultimately it comes down to how many layers of that material and the amount of resin required to achieve the desired characteristics. I won't be able to gauge this without making panels. So I think at the moment my priority is to sort some tools and kayak guy is a good bet (as I can exchange CAD work for tools). The benefit of this will be that it can happen without my input as I am mega busy right now! Once the tools are made, and I have developed a working relationship with the guy then I will experiment with lay-ups of different materials to truly understand the benefits of each with a view to cost, weight and strength. If these fail to impress, then I can always ship the tools to a carbon moulding specialist.

 

I am keen for you to keep an eye on the thread Kip and welcome suggestions and experiences when you have them ;) Thanks again.

[badgerman 0]

I thought I would also mention (not specifically to you Kip!!), as I have written a bit of an essay, my motivation to doing all this. No doubt some of you have made the connection that I am also doing a bit of trimming and I don't want to be seen as someone only trying to make a business on the forum - because really thats not what this is about for me. I like to make things as my job affords little creativity and hands on work. I am a designer and so I am naturally inquisitive and I sit engineering passneger terminal seating for a living which ,as a graduate from a car design course, doesn't really light my fire! The things I design in Solidworks are subbed out and when they return if i have done a good job they should fit together. There is no craft - which is why I am doing this stuff.

 

Now we have shared, tell me something about yourself. . . . . !!!

[KipVR 1]

Glad to help pal :)

 

Are you planning to do carbon tooling and use an autoclave for it? or are you just doing a hand lay up? If it's hand lay up you are right the kevlar won't be much heavier as most of the weight will be in the resin. It's only when you use pre-preg (pre-impregnated resin) carbon matting that you really see benefits of carbon, it gives a much better finish too.

 

I've been there before with cold lay up of car panels, and for parts like wings where they are just a single skin, you'd be hard pushed to make any decent weight saving, if not heavier!

 

Solidworks is a great package, I've used it for 10 years now, and it's going from strength to strength, to the point where it's big brother Catia isn't really any better, but Catia is the automotive industry standard so it's worth learning.