VR6 Head Gasket Gone - Options?

[knightrider 0]

Corrado VR6 1994 190,000 miles. Was losing coolant and diagnosed as head gasket gone. 'Sniff Test' at local VWAudi specialist shows this. I'm not a DIYer so wondering what best options are.

 

Option 1 - write it off and break for spares.

All the things that need doing/go wrong have been dealt with over time. Wipers, headlight upgrade, sunroof, heater matrix. It's dragon green with black leather. It has a resonted milltek and BMC CDA85 silver induction kit. Otherwise car and suspension standard. 2 x sets of original Corrado alloys, one set with winters.

 

Option 2 - Replace head gasket

If so, what else should I do at the same time. For some reason the local VW specialist doesn't want to do it. In Sussex. Where is good place to get it done? It still drives. I'm told that at this mileage the bores could have gone 'oval' and, if so, reboring isn't really an option. Find a complete replacement engine and transplant it?

 

Option 3 - Replace with Golf VR6 engine

Mate has a late 1997 Golf VR6 OBD2 75,000 miles. It was rolled about 5 years ago and has been stored under cover at a nearby farm since. Perfect service history, ran perfectly before the 'accident'. I understand that it is possible to transplant this engine into the Corrado, albeit the engine management and electrics are different and other mods would be needed. How feasible is this? Is it difficult? A mission? What would need to be changed? The Golf rolls and can be trailered to wherever it gets done. Again, any advice on who/where this could be done? Is it worth it?

 

Any other options? I love the Rado and really don't want to scrap it.

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

personally, i think the 12v VR lump is the heart & soul of the VR corrado

 

as such i would look at option 2 first

[easypops 8]

Option 3. Obd2 is supposedly a lot better than our obd1. Swap the full engine over and then it's a wee bit of a Frankenstein loom between the corrado and golf one. There is a guide on here somewhere

[marks2 0]

Given you have already stated that your are not a DIY'er i would have thought breaking would be out of the question.

Having just broken a G60 I wouldn't underestimate the time or space required to do this.

If you decide to break let me know and i'll give you a few tips!

[fla 9]

Agreed with easypops. Obd2 is a.worthwhile conversion. If i were you though I'd also do the chains and main crank seal while its out. Nice and easy to do then. And the oil cooler seals.

Its not too difficult - this is old technology without millions of sensors!

Best of luck

[knightrider 0]

Thanks for replies. Mark2, agree, wouldn't break it myself. Maybe give it to someone to do it. Maybe for a small commision to me?

Any thoughts as to which of the VR6 specialists could do the Golf VR6 transplant?

Yes, ages ago I saw the thread about that transplant. I'll have to have a look for it.

And also believe it is a 'better' engine. I also read somewhere that the OBD2 golf engines actually develop about 190bhp, not 170ish. Apparently at the time people were having trouble insuring the Golfs so VW didn't bother to change the 'published' bhp. No idea if this is actually true.

Driven a later Golf 2.8 VR6 and it did feel a bit smoother and more modern than the Corrado 2.9

[MarkR 11]

Option 2. Why not find out the condition of the cylinders before commiting to the work. If the rest of the car is in good order and worth preserving you will not diminish its value by changing the engine, especially a nonstandard one.

[coullstar 0]

I had a Highline Golf VR6 and it was RR at 195bhp, completely standard and benchmarked against a couple of others so I quite believe they might have closer to that.

[16vMatt 10]

If all the things that have gone wrong have been dealt with previously as you've said I'd say it'd be a waste to break. For me personally it'd have to be option 2.

[GlosterOx 0]

Thanks for replies. Mark2, agree, wouldn't break it myself. Maybe give it to someone to do it. Maybe for a small commision to me?

Any thoughts as to which of the VR6 specialists could do the Golf VR6 transplant?

Yes, ages ago I saw the thread about that transplant. I'll have to have a look for it.

And also believe it is a 'better' engine. I also read somewhere that the OBD2 golf engines actually develop about 190bhp, not 170ish. Apparently at the time people were having trouble insuring the Golfs so VW didn't bother to change the 'published' bhp. No idea if this is actually true.

Driven a later Golf 2.8 VR6 and it did feel a bit smoother and more modern than the Corrado 2.9

 

Definitely Option 2 to start with.

 

How far away is Littlehampton, as that is where John Mitchell is: http://www.johnmitchellracing.co.uk/

 

Ian.

[knightrider 0]

GlosterOx, good call. Yeah I'd thought about JMR. Took the car there in April 2011 when I first got it. He healthchecked it (2 hours), serviced, did wipers and headlights, changed rad, other bits and pieces. Very, very knowledgeable guy that's for sure.

Littlehampton isn't that far from me. I'm in north of E Sussex, near Forest Row. It's about 50 miles, just over an hour. I'm lucky to have someone like John Mitchell quite near. Should be able to make it with a big bottle of coolant in the car!

I'll call him tomorrow, see what he thinks.

I'm worried about 'fixing' an engine with so many miles on it. He'll have an informed point of view and be able to advise for sure.

I'd really like to put the Golf VR engine in. no doubt he could do that. Question is - how much!

[GlosterOx 0]

I wouldn't worry about the mileage, properly looked after (coolant + good quality oil) these engines go on and on - I have over 228000 on mine and there are others on here with more than that!

 

Speak to John, a real knowledgeable bloke as you say, and then make an informed decision. It seems the best money long term is keeping the Corrado OEM, so maybe something to consider as well?

 

Ian.

[Jim 1]

GlosterOx, good call. Yeah I'd thought about JMR. Took the car there in April 2011 when I first got it. He healthchecked it (2 hours), serviced, did wipers and headlights, changed rad, other bits and pieces. Very, very knowledgeable guy that's for sure.

Littlehampton isn't that far from me. I'm in north of E Sussex, near Forest Row. It's about 50 miles, just over an hour. I'm lucky to have someone like John Mitchell quite near. Should be able to make it with a big bottle of coolant in the car!

I'll call him tomorrow, see what he thinks.

I'm worried about 'fixing' an engine with so many miles on it. He'll have an informed point of view and be able to advise for sure.

I'd really like to put the Golf VR engine in. no doubt he could do that. Question is - how much!

 

The good thing about the head needing to come off anyway for the headgasket, is that he can inspect all other areas of the engine for their condition - the pistons, the bores / cylinder walls, timing chains & tensioners - and it's not a huge stretch to drop the sump either and inspect around the crank. That way an informed decision can be made on whether it's worth patching up the current engine, whether it needs more substantial rebuilding work, or whether it'd be more economical simply ripping it out and replacing it with a known good second hand unit.

 

Keep us posted!

[knightrider 0]

Hi All, update following more research and phone calls.

Long chat with John at JMR yesterday. Also called VEGE who are big in refurbed engines.

VEGE can do a complete 'long' fully refurbed AAA engine for £3,010+VAT plus £120+VAT to deliver and collect. It comes from a firm in Holland. It's 4 days work to swap the engines over(JMR).

Means my car would have a brand new engine but no longer have matching numbers. So far this doesn't seem to be an issue with Corrados. I know from having messed with E Types in the past that matching numbers are holy grail. If you look at ads for any top class classics it is always mentioned. Knocks a shed of money off their value if they don't have them. According to John, as Corrados move from being 'enthusiasts' cars to 'investors', cars having matching numbers will become more important. His customers are already changing in this respect. I agree.

As per GlosterOx's post John says the bottom ends of the AAA engine are designed and engineered to do way more than 200,000 miles. So my 190,000 miles shouldn't be a problem ref bores and so on. Heads are a problem.

As posts, he suggests get the head off and have a look. An issue with the head is that the tolerances are so tight that 'skimming' if it's warped is potentially tricky/not an option.

Probably go this route, as most of you have kindly suggested. And I think JMR are the guys to use as he knows these engines backwards.

Incidentally he reckons the chains are usually OK. The 'shoe' tensioner wears (still available). As I'm sure most of you know getting at that is a further mission as box has to come off plus all the covers etc. Sprockets are NLA. My chains sound OK.

Has anyone had a refurbed engine from VEGE?

[seanl82 23]

VEGE had VR6 heads in their "SALE" section last Christmas for about £130 posted!!!!

Ian (GloucesterOx) snapped on up, and I so regret not doing the same but SWMBO threw a hissy fit as it was so close to XMas and I wasn't allowed to spend a penny on the car!

 

VEGE have a good reputation so if you want to fork out what is tbh a considerable amount on a newly refurbished engine you can be rest assured, however I'd do as John at JMR has suggested and just go for the head. He'll be able to advise if there is any further damage on removal anyway.

 

:mad2:

[knightrider 0]

Update from last post nearly 3 months ago. Drove the car to John Mitchell Racing on Wed 8th Feb. 50 miles. I must admit driving down it didn't seem to me the head gasket HAD gone. Used a bit of water, half litre. No 'pressurising' in header bottle. Ran consistent temp (a bit low actually) except in the traffic you get on A27 in Worthing. Crawling, went up a bit. Turned on fans with override switch fitted and it came back down quickly.

Rang JMR today 13th Feb. Good news all in all. Head gasket isn't gone. He 'stressed' it big time. Water leak from header bottle, needs replacing. Cap dodgy, not pressurising, needs replacing. Leak around thermostat, needs replacing. Will put full set of Samco on it.

Oil was 2 litres down. He topped it up and top end went quiet, chain and tensioner good (stethescope).

Oil leaks - oil cooler unions (bad, ****ing out), rocker cover gasket. Sump had some scrapes, needs a bit of welding, so new sump gasket.

Deep joy really as the quote to rebuild the engine was £3,000.

Was hunting on idle. ISV knackered. Needs replacing. I have one on a 1997 OBD2 Golf VR6 with 75,000 (the rolled one) - anyone know if that will work on the 1994 Corrado VR6?

He said the car has obviously been v well maintauined over it's life - true. Floorpan is excellent.

Needs full re-paint. No panels needed. Some usaeage dings. Lacquer peeled in places. Getting a quote from him/his body man.

Suspension (188,000 miles) is knackered and needs replacing. All the bushes etc. should be replaced. He is keen to put a set of coilies on it (he is a coilie evangelist). KWs are his thing (or ST or AP which are made by KW). Not sure about coiliies. What other options might there be for simply springs and shocks? Don't think OE standard are available any more. Thoughts??

So it wasn't Options 1,2 or 3! Option 4 - spend and end up with a pretty nice Rado.

[Jim 1]

Great news all round I guess. Still a potentially bad bill to fix all the issues, but it'll drive like a new car with a lot of those issues resolved and new suspension!

[knightrider 0]

Thanks Jim. Yes it'll cost a fair bit. But it'll be money spent 'going forwards' rather than the engine re-build which is kind of 'going backwards', in that it just gets you to where you should be in the first place.

I'll post updates, assuming people would like top know, as JMR go along.

[knightrider 0]

Update.

Having driven the car to JMR Littlehampton with no real issues was pleased to learn the head gasket wasn't gone. In a subsequent phone call I was told that the head gasket was now gone and the car would not run. I was unable to discover why and what happened and what had been done to the car to cause this.

I got a health check report and a bill for that (£168.00 which was fine).

 

I asked for estimates, not quotes, for the extensive list of works required identified in the Health Check. The end target of these extensive works seemed to be to get it 'immaculate', like the ones you see up for £18k or so. That wasn't where I was going with a 189k miler. Just wanted a decent runner that I could drive daily if I wish. Which I tried to impress upon them. There were some extremely difficult conversations in which listening and understanding seemed in short supply.

 

Never got the estimates. In fact was told such estimates would take a lot of work to sort out. Which is odd because I thought with the significant knowledge they have of Corrados it would be reasonably straightforward. Evidently not. Presume too much work?

 

So without being able to budget for the items that could be done to get to my 'decent runner' requirement and as nothing seemed to be happening and because it was driveable but no longer appears to be driveable, I have had it removed and trailered back which cost about £160. So I've spent just over £300 and I've got a car sat outside that was a runner and now isn't.

 

I leave you all to make your own deductions with regards to the efficacy of taking it to JMR.

[Dox 22]

It sounds like they want to do high standard work and aren't prepared to cut corners to make your car a runner? Why, because they know you wont be happy with it?

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

Update.

Having driven the car to JMR Littlehampton with no real issues was pleased to learn the head gasket wasn't gone. In a subsequent phone call I was told that the head gasket was now gone and the car would not run. I was unable to discover why and what happened and what had been done to the car to cause this.

I got a health check report and a bill for that (£168.00 which was fine).

 

I asked for estimates, not quotes, for the extensive list of works required identified in the Health Check. The end target of these extensive works seemed to be to get it 'immaculate', like the ones you see up for £18k or so. That wasn't where I was going with a 189k miler. Just wanted a decent runner that I could drive daily if I wish. Which I tried to impress upon them. There were some extremely difficult conversations in which listening and understanding seemed in short supply.

 

Never got the estimates. In fact was told such estimates would take a lot of work to sort out. Which is odd because I thought with the significant knowledge they have of Corrados it would be reasonably straightforward. Evidently not. Presume too much work?

 

So without being able to budget for the items that could be done to get to my 'decent runner' requirement and as nothing seemed to be happening and because it was driveable but no longer appears to be driveable, I have had it removed and trailered back which cost about £160. So I've spent just over £300 and I've got a car sat outside that was a runner and now isn't.

 

I leave you all to make your own deductions with regards to the efficacy of taking it to JMR.

 

ouch!!! that hurts reading that - i hope it hasnt hurt your love for your rado

 

JMR are on here quite often, it would be nice/helpful if they clarified

 

Stealth are likely a long way from East Sussex but it has to be worth giving Vince a call. he had no issue with listening to what i wanted, gave his advice from experience & then gave me an estimate to work towards.

 

granted it turned out quite a bit higher but once you start refreshing some things then others pop up & weak links in the chain appear

 

i still recommend them even though i had poor workmanship issues when they did my VR. the person who was poor didnt last much longer & Vince went out of his way to make sure i was happy & got the end result that i wanted & which he wanted to produce.

 

the full story is on my build thread should you wish to read but to give you a brief idea Vince even went as far as to rebuild the head for a 2nd time as we were not happy, he had my inlet manifold polished as someone put scratches on it & donated an inner door plastic trim off his own rado due to a scratch on mine

[VEEDUBBED 0]

Hmm..

Hows about a 2.9 short block with only 19.000km's on it? Gotta be cheaper than 3 fukin grand..