CrazyDave

Started on the turbo project today.

For the record, standard VR6 engine bay.

Under bonnet looks much cleaner with the inlet manifold gone.

Oh and if you're all wondering why I've only taken one plug lead off, it's cos my lead remover tool broke, DOH.

Exhaust manifolds came off really easy. Downpipe is going to need an angle grinder underneath cos all three bolts are seized and funny sizes due to rusting.

Front end removed for access. Lots of little bits of rust hiding behind the bumper to sort out.

I use the Innovate LC-1, which was only $199

 

Comes with controller, Bosch probe, lambda socket, 2 programmable analogue outputs (+ 1 digital), software and computer leads.

 

I've been looking at one of those, but was trying to find out a way of building my own controller and just using a standard MK4 GTi wideband lambda..... might have to give that a go

Mine is an LM-1 because I wanted the logging facility, but I plan on using an LC-1 for exactly the same reasons as Kev. Very easy to calibrate, fit and forget worth every penny especially if you buy direct from the States.

Hows the squirt coming on Mr Beige (or should I say Louis!).

Hi Mancorr, Welcome to the forum.

Just had a similar problem with a MK2 Golf with the recall heater bypass. Seems that the valves fail after a while. I've replaced mine with two bits of pipe and it work fine (stealer wanted £36 for a replacement).

Just beware that the mod was done to protect the heater matrix, so bypassing puts you at risk of hot coolant on your feet!

any idea what the effect on fuel economy has been?

Well it's only been a few days, so I've only done 100 ish miles in total. But I did notice that when I'd used 1/4 of a tank from full the mileage was reading 84. Now I now this isn't very scientific but I normally get about 90 ish from a 1/4 tank with my going to work driving style and traffic etc. So it's not down a great deal on standard.

I'm also running a slightly rich AFR target map for my tuning so that it's on the 'safe' side. The injector cut feature is switched on for closed throttle above 2000rpm.

Not bad really?

Yeah Bill has done the core configuration already. All I need to do is program the LC-1's Wideband analog output and trim the idle and boost fuelling and that's it.

 

I'm not using Knock control as apparently forged piston resonance triggers the sensors, LOL!! I'm using A/F and EGT instead.

 

The DTA does have full PWM idle control which has been massively improved in the latest version (v35.2) but I'll see how I get on with throttle stop + fuel adjustments first.

Normal running should be pretty much spot on then. Although what I'm really liking is that you can tune the response and drivability of the engine to how YOU want it, not how the emissions like it.

Knock is connected on mine but not being used yet. Currently enjoying ignition timing staying were its been put :lol: .

After quite a bit of looking at idle stuff, it seems the main problem is that decent idle needs two things. A good valve or most likely a stepper throttle and ignition trimmed idle. Valves just don't move fast enough to catch idle speed on their own if the fans cut in etc, so you always get a dip. I haven't tried the throttle stop one yet, but it's on the list!

I switched back to Motronic tonight to get a feel for how different it was, and it's really different.

Have you ever noticed when cruising on light throttle how when backing out the engine hangs on for a little bit and then decels? Makes gear shifting a little strange because the engine speed isn't quite dropping quickly enough. Well with squirt its adjustable (and DTA), so gear shifts suddenly become that little bit crisper.

Bottom end grunt is miles better with squirt, mainly due to the ignition not being pulled out from underneath you I suspect.

I do need to do more work on the just off idle settings, I have a slight hesitance at about 950ish rpm. So I'll look into that.

Did the run to work with MegaSquirt today.

Full cold start. Idled fine, warmed up without any problems. Drive to work was smooth and event free, even in the traffic.

Only small problem, idle dipping to about 500rpm every now and again.

I've added a ridge to the ignition map at 500 RPM of 14 degrees advance in addition to the flat spot from 700rpm to 900rpm with 6 degrees. This give a flat idle area and the ridge stops the engine speed dipping below 700rpm. Tested it tonight and it does the job, no more dipping idle.

Kev, you'll have lots of fun setting up. Can get pretty frustrating at times. But if Bill gives you a good start, the bad bit is done already. Having full control of everything has lots of advantages. The only way forward for me!

Yanards, I reckon if anybody has a modified car that doesn't run correctly this is a pretty good way to get it sorted. Mine is definately way better than standard already, after about 3 days of running in autotune.

MegaSquirt progress this weekend:

Innovate LC-1 wideband fitted and calibrated to the MS ECU. And wired into a suitable igntion feed from the fuse board (no silly ciggy plug any more).

I needed to get the ignition timing better so I've been doing lots of logging of Motronic with VAG-COM, just to get an idea. I converted the key RPM sites and did some rough guessing of MAP compared to TPS (as TPS is all Motronic 2.9 has available). This gave a pretty safe ignition map to run with.

Changed the injector wiring. The injectors had been split in banks (near and far on the VR). But the sequencing of the fueling works better if you follow firing order, so you end up with INJ A wired to 1,2,3 and INJ B wired to 4,5,6. This was much better when running alternating injection, 2 squirts per cycle as the cylinders needing the fuel got it! Injectors are now running at about 3.9ms at idle.

Tried the idle valve at 100Hz control. Still not ideal, in fact worse as the control resolution was coarse and in some conditions even the the idle output was at a fixed value the valve was moving a small amount causing the idle to hunt. So went back to 50Hz and did some tuning, now stable but needs more work. I may add a board of my own design to improve the PWM control of the valve with proper PID and feed forward. Or cheat and wind the idle screw for the base setting and only use the ISV for warmup?

Drove the car for about 1-2 hours and did some auto-tuning of low load conditions (30% TPS and below 3500rpm). Car was initially a bit rough, but within 10 minutes it was smooth. Did a few runs with 70% throttle to 4k rpm and checked the logs for AFR. Running nice at about 13. Pulled really strong and felt like it wanted more. Traffic manners brilliant, non of that Motronic stuttering in gear, low rpm, part throttle stuff that you have to drive around.

Did a cold start tonight after leaving the car for 4 hours, started idled and drove well right through warmup (no stalling!).

I'll post some pics up when I've cleaned up the maps a bit.

I'm going for the full drive to work tomorrow, hopefully without needing the laptop on the passenger seat :) .

I now have a wideband O2 sensor, and I've been taking some data logs while driving easy, hard etc and so far it has been fine. AFR is spot on and nicely on the rich side when on full throttle. Spot on 14.7 when cruising. With numbers like that I wouldn't expect any engine damage. Maybe wouldn't pass an MOT, but it's only slightly lean at idle (about 15.2 AFR).

Fuel consumption does seem a little down, maybe 2-3 mpg so not much.

Got the C on a ramp today and fitted my wideband O2 sensor. In the process I had to remove the narrow band standard sensor which I disconnected and left the cable dangling.

Now it might just be me, but my car felt really great on the drive home?

Idle was better and went like a rocket. :lol:

The wideband meter was showing it running a little rich so maybe pulling the sensor put the Motronic into an open loop fuel mode thats a bit on the rich side?

Anybody else tried this?

At least he came clean. Pretty decent.

My C picked up a small ding in the drivers door, from our company secretary. She didn't even know she'd done it! But her Ford Ka had Vw green paint on the edge of the door and I had Ford Ka silver on mine, so no contest really.

OK, found some new motivation recently with the turbo project. Started sorting out all the gaskets, pipes, bolts and fittings needed.

Big thanks to KevHaywire and everybody else on here for providing the right kind of encouragement.

I'm a bit concerned about how far the wastegate actuator sticks out?

Oil and water feed / return fittings and pipes, weld in bungs etc all sourced from ATP Turbos. It's just like Tesco's online for turbo bits!

My turbo has a 3" 4 bolt flange that knowbody seems to do a gasket for? Tried ATP Turbos but no joy? Also fitted here is the weld on flange for the downpipe. Sourced some of the parts for this but leaving the rest until the car fitting starts.

External - Standard all the way.

Interior - Standard, but change the ICE. The standard Sony head and CD changer is just really bad. Maybe some very subtle mods like Mr Beiges' shift lights, but no more.

Oily bits - Bring it on! 8) Must go better, handle better and stop better than standard.

I agree with Goldie. Sounds like they've removed or disturbed an earth cable to the engine or something. That would give loads of strange faults.

Cheers GazzaG60, going to try and get the wideband and EGT probe in this weekend. I've found a local custom exhaust place that should be able to weld them in-situe to the existing downpipe.

I've been reading the setup guides in the MegaManual, cos I'm not convinced the base injector PW is correct. Seems quite rich even with small PW. But it could be the initial injector open time is still too high.

Hi All,

Fully registered VAG-COM with 16pin OBD connector and 2x2.

Worcester and surrounding area.

Happy to help with any faults if I can. Give me a shout.

Just been for a drive without the Load Reduction Relay removed & the clicks still occur, so that rules that one out...

 

My next suspect is the relay directly above the ECU Relay in Pos 3. Does anyone know what this might be on a '95 VR6 without aircon or electric seats?

Anyway, this relay seemed a bit wobbly, so I took it out for a look & it looked a bit black. I've sprayed it with some contact cleaner & I'll see if it makes any difference on the way home tonight.

 

I would get an auto electrician to take a look, but it only ever occurs whenn you are driving, so I've no idea how he would be able to find the fault??

The trouble with any of the relays above the fuse board is that they more around depending on what option are on the car. But the Bentley manual says it's either Positive Crankcase Ventillation (whatever that might be, never heard of it) or the ABS Hydraulic Pump Relay?

Neither of these seems likely.

Have you checked all the earth points on the engine, they are numerous and could give all kinds of trouble if loose, bad or missing.

Going back to your fault code, have you tried swapping no.5 injector with another one and seeing if the fault moves. Injectors do fail from time to time.

any thoughts on this manifold guys before i click buy it now??

Not that pretty, but the price isn't bad.

Looks like it'll fit without changing the rad fans. Maybe get it powdered black or polished to make it look nicer.

Tested the hi-res code today, idle seems more stable and running was even better. Injector timing can be set to three decimal places now. So fueling is much finer, should be good with the big injectors for the turbo at idle.

Switched back to the Motronic for the RR day tomorrow. Need more time.

I see what you mean now GazzaG60

Did loads more setting up today. Got the idle quite a bit better and finished off the installation and boxed everything up.

I decided that it was time for a test drive. Wow, it's so smooth! Only did some light throttle low speed driving and it's great.

Took a complete datalog of the whole run and compared it to a VAG-COM log of Motronic. My initial timing setup is a bit reserved so I've modified that and will give it another go tomorrow.

On and off throttle transitions feel miles better than Motronic already. Part throttle felt smooth with no jumping or hesitation.

Still need to get my EGT probe fitted, but may leave than until the turbo goes on.

Got a bit of a dilemma now, because I really need to get the narrowband sensor changed for the wideband so I can get the fueling sorted. But Sunday is the Stealth RR day and it's not really had enough setting up to thrash on the rollers.

Sounds like the low end fueling might be a bit rich. That's the only map not on here yet!

It's always the low end stuff that take the time really. And getting it right for all conditions is tricky.

Are you running a wide band O2 sensor? Closed loop control for part throttle conditions is usually the best way to get good running, especially if you have big injectors, which with that many horses I'm guessing you have!

I've been thinking about traction quite a lot lately. The best way (and maybe only) I can see is a limited slip diff. Unless you fancy a 4 x 4 conversion!

Always up for a ride in a quick C.... as long as I can play with the mapping to get a bit more!

Hi Sam,

great news then, just remember that fueling only lasts for 10 cycles of the engine to get it going, but at 176% plus the normal fuel map the injectors must have been fully open, hence the flooding when cold.

As for the idle, you've got a 20vt engine it should have a stepper motor on the throttle butterfly, is it connected up? You might have an ISV instead to allow some air past the throttle and increase the idle speed.

Either way if the bypass valve isn't connected up you are relying on the butterfly being adjusted off the stop position for idle speed control. This means that all the things that modern ECU's use to help cold running, stall prevention, heavy electrical loads like cooling fans etc etc can't be used. So getting the idle better may need a valve fitting or the existing one wiring up.

When you have this valve the ECU will start to get hold of the throttle as the engine speed approaches idle. The PID control that the DTA does will then increase the idle air or decrease it to keep the idle stable even when the fans start etc etc. It should work really well and never ever stall if setup correctly.

It does take some setting up thought, I spent a good 2 hours get the VR to idle just how I wanted it. But it is really good.

I found out something interesting today, my car has been a bit lumpy on idle lately and VAG-COM should an intermittant crank sensor fault. When I put a timing light on, the idle timing was moving about quite a lot. I connected up the Megasquirt and the idle timing was spot on. Looks like the MS is better with the VW crank sensor than Motronic is!

I always fancied a 20vt C. The Golf we have has really good mid range and is so lazy to drive.

Dave

Hi Andy,

Pretty nasty situation that.... like you say, maybe best to stick with the memories, but I can see that it would seem a bit unfinished for you.

The cheque thing is pretty insulting though, made me mad just reading it.

Give it a bit of time and careful thought at this point maybe...

Dave

Yeh... messing with the tuning is great fun, as long as you don't break it.

Are you going to Stealth RR this Sunday? I'll be having a look around and my cars on the rollers! Fully standard though, even the Megasquirt isn't on fully yet, need more time and less work!

I could run VAG-COM on my Golf 1.8T and get some standard ignition logs for you? OEM settings are always a good place to start.

I did a load of logging on the VR before fitting the MS to give me a good idea of basic running parameters. The Motronic stuffs a load of advance (24deg) in at about 1000rpm and then backs of pretty quickly. Makes it a bit funny in traffic actually but I guess it give it an extra shove when pulling away.

The DTA has a really good idle control system (just been reading the manual again). Full PID control NICE! Can you post your idle setting page?

If relay 3 is still dropping out you'll loose the feed to the fuel injectors, coil, ISV the lot. It's driven from an output on the ECU.

It's very strange that you get that fault, but if your car has been hacked about by the immob lot it could have some 'extra' features that you won't know about.

Just to prove the point, get your old relay and remove the lid. Jam a plastic cable tie into it to close the contacts all the while and plug it in. Start the car and go for a drive. If the problem disapears it could be immobiliser related as this relay is used for that. DON'T leave this relay in as you'll end up with a flat battery or worse.

That stuff from Maplin does the trick with the MAF. Somebody posted it up recently give it a search.

I got to drive mine this week! Got back from a work trip in Korea yesterday.

Was worth the wait though, I loved it to bits!

I've just downloaded the manual from the DTA website and had a read up of starting enrichments. Have a look here http://www.dtafast.co.uk/Downloads/Downloads_Index.htm

It's the S8 manual.pdf

The table is laid out engine temp across the top, and engine cycles down the left. So when you cold start the fuel % in the table is added to the main fuel map for the number of engine cycles down the left and for how cold the engine coolant is. The table they recommend for most engines does not have numbers bigger than 100% dropping to 60% after 10 engine cycles.

Your map needs more numbers and they need to be a lot lower IMO. It's not showing any enrichment above 50degC and way to much in the first 10 cycles. If you try and it doesn't work you can always go back?

As for the enrichment finishing this is what the DTA manual says: The fuel is added until either the number of turns specified is exhausted or a 0 is found in the map.