What would your expectations of this set-up be???

[RobRobRace 0]

Just wanted to know how you think this set up should perform.(hp=??? faster than a ?car?, should roast through ??? gear and chirp ??? gear, ... ???) Something to compare to.

I was expecting more than I seem to have at this point. I have only had this car for like 2 months, and all the following engine stuff for maybe 3 weeks now. I drove it less than 200 miles when it was in total stock form, and only about 1200 with this stuff and my suspension. So help out a new guy.

 

'90 G60 with:

 

BBM Stage 4 = (ISV-Reroute, Performance FPR, Stage 4 chip, 68mm pulley,180 degree thermostat and fan switch, and a 268/260 cam) and a stupid eurospec adjustable cam gear.

 

a newlly rebuilt charger with gt70 intake porting, RS/RSR porting stage IV w/ RSR outlet kit. Homemade intake (3" silicone coupling, 3" half U-bend, and a K&N) and the wide belt conversion.

 

Ive seen this push 17lbs of boost, as expected, at about 5500rpm, but due to recent timing adjustment of the cam (-4 degrees) it now gets 15-16 lbs, but I think there is more bottom end. So I am not suspecting a boost leak.

 

I have checked compression in all 4 cylinders, all 148.

 

I don't know what shape the clutch is in (or even if it is original) I have a vr6 to put in.

 

Also, I am not sure about the cam timing, hence the recent adjustment. Ive had it running on 4 differnt teeth so far, good sounding on 2. Have found the advanced limit, but not the retarded one. I really need to put the stock gear back on (I really suspect the adjustable one is all marked wrong). I get good mileage, avg 21mpg, but have seen 27+ on freeway. So it seems efficient to me.

[RobRobRace 0]

The boost levels above were obtained with an Autometer gauge I installed.

 

I just found out about the factory gauge and gave it a try. It read 255, which apparently = 17.4 lbs.

 

See http://www.norcalcorrado.com/main/viewt ... ?p=607#607

[potatonet 0]

if you were to have bottom end, then you would be advancing the timing not retarding it. cam retardation maximum on a G60 is controlled by the knock sensor and can go as far as 12 degrees retard, I would say you areprobably pushing around 190-205 hp, and about 220 torque at the crank... get a real intake... you have a few more things you can do, bigger injectors, stage 5 chip by SNS, eurosport IC tubes, spark plug wires, 65mm pulley, exhaust... plenty more to list. why do u want to know? Bragging rights? california in summer will drop your HP about 15 so be ready for it.

[RobRobRace 0]

I really dont want to get into an argument, but Ive got to defend what I have. Honestly, what is the difference between what I have made and what you can buy??? Lets see.. a heat shield and an adapter ( I dont need it since i have the porting done) http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php/ca ... &catid=204

Its a shame that mine cost less than $100 isnt it?? It has a support so it doesn't flop around, and its even painted oooo.

 

I have stated facts, do not discredit me. I didnt say it made sence. If I said I retarded it and it gained some bottom end it did. I don't have any explanation why, it just did. Maybe by retarding it it gained some bottom end becuase it already had cruddy low end power. Maybe it was at the lowest it could have been and now things are starting to improove. The only way to know will be to keep messing around with this stupid gear, or put the stock back on which may just produce the same results.

 

As for you bragging rights comment... Totally uncalled for. I am concerned that something isn't right with my car. It purs like a kitten, everything checks out, it just seems like it doesnt go. I just wanted to know where it should stand for comparison, so that maybe I could figure out if it is at expectations or not. Currently it is not. Are my expectation to high? I dont know. That what I am triing to figure out by this question.

 

For example. Lets pretend that this setup was supposed to make this car stupid fast (acceleration wise) like a funny car (extreme on purpose), yet my car accelerated like a metro (extreme again). Now something would be deffinately wrong wouldnt it?

 

 

As for other upgrades, BBM said that larger injectors would not be neccessay until 65 pulley (which I do have) is put on. Got an exhaust, I can make those too, aint as nice of a job as my intake, but it works. Got wires on there, hotter coil, nice set of plugs. Come on now, by a used car you replace all these things especially if your doing upgrades. Get this I even changed all the fluids. The car now has 4 matching tires (it had 4 different brands when bought), new wheels, koni fully adjustable coil set, all bars (front, rear, upper, lower) Its set up to go, but it just doesnt seem like it is.

[LarryDuff 0]

Wassa Metro in the States? Surely it's not the same one we get over here! (1 litre engine, 20+yr old design, was made by Rover who've just gone bust)

[bcstudent 0]

I assume he's talking about the Geo Metro. They're a small, economy car along the same lines as the Daihatsu Charade. There are a ton of them on the streets of Canada and, I assume, the US too.

 

I'm not 100% sure but I believe the Geo Metro, Pontiac Firefly and Chevy Sprint are essentially the same car, a bit like the Peugeot 106 and Citroen Saxo are over here.

[RobRobRace 0]

I assume he's talking about the Geo Metro. They're a small, economy car along the same lines as the Daihatsu Charade. There are a ton of them on the streets of Canada and, I assume, the US too.

 

I'm not 100% sure but I believe the Geo Metro, Pontiac Firefly and Chevy Sprint are essentially the same car, a bit like the Peugeot 106 and Citroen Saxo are over here.

 

Yes this is exactly what i meant

[bcstudent 0]

Who da man? That would be me!

 

It would seem to me that getting your car to a dyno would be the next logical step if you're in any doubt about performance. I hope you get it sorted to a level you're happy with dude.

[Henny 0]

humm... It's difficult for us to say what cars your car should beat as you're on the other side of the Atlantic from us, so your cars differ from ours... :|

 

With that kinda spec, I'd be expecting between 180 and 200 BHP if it's set up properly... Have you had it on an exhaust gas analyser? Could be that one of the sensors is dead and it's not quite running 100%... A dead knock or lambda sensor would knock quite a bit of power off while making the car run reasonably well....

 

Get her checked out fully and see what the outcome is... A nicely sorted G60 should be a nice quick car... 8)

[Red=Fast 0]

I have almost the eaxact same set up and I am getting 155hp and 155 torque at the wheels. I was shocked it was so low. But the guys at SNS said it was average stage 4 numbers. =\

[Henny 0]

Red=Fast, yeah, that's about right at the wheels... Add on about 20% for power at the flywheel which will take you upto around 190bhp... ;)

[Red=Fast 0]

I was told that BHP = Brake Horsepower meaning that is the power you are putting to the ground.

 

I have always said hp for the power at the flywheel. Isn’t that how the car companies do it too?

 

Maybe I am wrong. I just want to clarify.

[bcstudent 0]

The 'brake' part comes from the name of the machine, known as a friction brake, that was used to measure the power output of a motor. BHP now simply refers to power as measured on a dynomometer - the modern equvalent of a friction brake.

 

Technically, the 'at the wheels' figure is the most meaningful - the 'at the crank' figure is only an estimation. However, any dyno peak figure has to be taken with a pinch of salt. The important part of a dyno plot is the shape of the curve.

[potatonet 0]

BHP means at the crank in simpler terms, redrob didnt mean to insult you just letting you know there were other things that could be done to make it stupid fast, as I read your first inquiry it seemed like this is what your plan would be, just adding suggestions, as for the intake... I have had bad experiences with corrado after corrado of people custom making things that go on their engine, granted you might be a good fabricator, but I have seen things like that fail more often than not, hence the suggestion of get a real intake.

 

As for basic knowledge goes, retarding and engine raises powerband to higher RPMs any tuning shop knows this, advancing it lowers the powerband. if your powerband was more focused on the lower RPM's you are indeed advancing the timing. the gear is most likely jacked up as you said. and if by some act of god that your retarding the timing actually took the powerband down the RPM range, then yes your retarding did indeed increase low end power.

 

accelerating like a geo metro, I know that feeling, check ure ISV, boost levels/leaks, and your dizzy. your advancing the timing or retarding it, will indeed make the car accelerate like a squirell. retarding it will make it slower than shiznit, this is what happened when my crank pulley sheared its key off, retarded about 25 degrees, slowest accell in history.

 

check your air/fuel like henny said, probably something there.

 

cheers and sorry for the mix up

[Henny 0]

BHP can be measured wherever the hell you like... inside the gearbox on one of the shafts if you really wanted to (and had the kit to do it! ;) ) It's a measure of work over a period of time. The 160ish BHP that VW quoted for the G60 when new was at the FLYWHEEL. You've then got to account for losses due to friction through the gearbox, CV joints and wheels which is where the +20ish% comes in when going from wheel horse power to flywheel horse power.

[flusted 0]

when i dynod my valver it made 162bhp at the fly but only 112bhp at the wheels! thats runnin 17s tho

[Scruffythefirst 0]

Technically, the 'at the wheels' figure is the most meaningful - the 'at the crank' figure is only an estimation. However, any dyno peak figure has to be taken with a pinch of salt. The important part of a dyno plot is the shape of the curve.

 

 

The only way to accurately measure crank bhp from a rolling road (wheel dyno) is to do a proper coastdown test. One you've done this you can calculate the power at the flywheel which is more accurate than the at the wheels figure because you eliminate the effect of the dyno and setup. This means the only way to compare between different rolling roads is to do a proper coast down test on each with the same car. Just adding or subtracting 20% is meaningless

 

Did you know you can affect the reading of a rolling road just by putting extra weight over the driven wheels.