G60 X-flow - Anyone completed one of these yet ?

[Henny 0]

yeah, but the problem with the x-flow is getting a custom made inlet manifold and exhaust manifold and then getting the whole thing setup to look factory and give anywhere near factory reliability/repeatability... ;)

[GazzaG60 0]

Henny a std 16v head flows 117 at the inlet and 91-92 at the exhaust so thats more in my book.

 

those figues are for std valves on 8v though. i stand corrected. i read again.

 

thats 16v not 8v

[Henny 0]

GazzaG60, where are those figures from? I didn't think a KR head flowed that much... :|

[GazzaG60 0]

16v is only slightly less than a 20v. due to it being NA its quite a bit less on the exhaust side though

 

a early kr is the best than a abf. so im told. im using a kr head on my new project but with a heavy port job taking the inlet to around 140 and exhaust to around 115 to 120. as you know its all about flow.

 

cncheads in stockport are the guys. they got flowcharts on their website. apparently they did the original eurospec heads too for the yanks to copy.

 

 

20v is without doubt the best FI head but a 16v takes some beating bang for buck. i like the torque from the 8v but it gets hard to put down after a bit and its hard to fit a big turbo to

[rmn 0]

The Kr, 9A and ABF heads are quite simular

From my reading and information the ABF and the later casting KR(apparently there were 3 types of head) are best. They are supposed to have bigger internal porting.

This is what the machine shop i left my car into said.

He knows his Vw's he was the lad who had the "original tuning box" agency

[GazzaG60 0]

intersting. so many differing opinions isnt there on 16v head flows.

 

in not sure for myself. all i can go on really is mk2 16v engines.

E/F plates are faster top end than later ones. maybe due to head or manifold or both. not sure

 

all heads will bolt up to the blocks etc in the same ways so they cant be that much different and i bet the differences are ironed out with porting.

[rmn 0]

Thats it, the early ones are 1985/6, i had one of them, the cars were the 42mm inlet, like the corrado, it is a different head, the later ones were revised and apparently twice

the 9a doesnt seem to flow as well even though it is supposed to be near identical to the kr

the abf is a 150bhp engine out of the box and the head seeming responds better to porting than the kr

Plus some mad dutvh man can make it into a nig valve head :lol:

 

To totally mess things up, the big valve abf head is no good for turbo's

it lets the gas flow too well :lol:

This came from Jerone Dik, who had a buyer for one of the big valve heads but he advised against it

[Riley 0]

cool stuff! 8)

 

that chart looks impressive,on standard valves too 8)

 

all the 16v heads are basically the same,just that the abf head has more meat inside to remove/shape 8)

[W3RKD 0]

Some intresting replies here, i think you will also agree that to be able to even compare the flow between the too said heads is somthing in its self..

As Henny says these are not cheap but..... Add up the price of the 16vg60 conversion and then the price of one of our heads and it speaks for its self. The flow test above is with std valves with the new valves fitted it has been flowed with a 17% exhaust increase which i think you will agree is quite impressive.They also add the benifit of keeping you engine bay looking OEM and also the 8v torque characteristics we all know and love...

Im sorry to harp on about these but they have taken over 6mths of development work and im very proud of the results

** there's life in these old 8v's yet ! :wink**

[Guest]

After reading all this there isn't any meation of a BHP figure!What does it produce?And with what boost?

 

Do those heads run on std setup? or chip/ standalone ecu required?

[W3RKD 0]

After reading all this there isn't any meation of a BHP figure!What does it produce?And with what boost?

 

Do those heads run on std setup? or chip/ standalone ecu required?

 

A bhp figure is governed on alot more than a cylinder head im afraid... Lets just say that the cylinder head will no longer the bottle neck in the chain anymore..

[BigTartanJudge 0]

All sounds quite impressive Darren, so what else would be required to work together with this head to get the best figures in terms of power / torque out of the PG engine whilst still retaining the G60 charger, i.e what else remains to be done to remove / or widen this bottleneck ?

 

Cheers

[W3RKD 0]

The heads will yield big gains on any bottom end Configuration. The heads can come supplied with a matched cam if needed so nothing else would be needed to Run this head on any PG bottom end. We can also cater for the 1H bottm ends to with no problem.

[GazzaG60 0]

The bit that gets me is how much is it worth using with a Glader and its somewhat limited airflow.

 

i must agree the counter flow 8v is the restriction but the charger is the limitation i think. the head can be sorted and stay strong whereas the chargers are getting older and are more prone to wear. i think it would help the red top setup though to help get rid of the static rich point.

 

any pics of the porting job daz

[W3RKD 0]

The bit that gets me is how much is it worth using with a Glader and its somewhat limited airflow.

 

i must agree the counter flow 8v is the restriction but the charger is the limitation i think. the head can be sorted and stay strong whereas the chargers are getting older and are more prone to wear. i think it would help the red top setup though to help get rid of the static rich point.

 

any pics of the porting job daz

 

We are working on a full web page at the moment with all the images / prices / specs etc.

If you thinking of turbo / lysolm / eaton conversions these heads are still fully useable ,but we are concentrating more on efficency at the moment rather that pushing the g-laders to crazy speeds..

[Lippy 0]

would be interested to see the page Darren, all the amunition I can can get for engine mods next year hopefully!

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

[Henny 0]

We can also cater for the 1H bottm ends to with no problem.

 

Stop that Darren, you little tempter you... ;) :lol:

[GazzaG60 0]

gotta agree on the speed thing darren. no point overstressing the G. my 65mm is for me the limit on a 145k charger. id go 62mm but im crazy. im getting lots of belt slip now too (old belt)

 

top props for keeping the G alive. it sure is a lovely engine even if it aint the most powerful

[rmn 0]

realisticly the head will cost a fair bit, but i think it could be worth it.

I am in the process of building a 16VG60 for a long time, but thats due to both time and money constraints, i have been watching the info on the new 8v heads from eurospec and now this G werks head, it is quite interesting as the crossflow 8V head does in my opinion look quite messy and you can have some space issues.

With the new counterflow heads they look factor, which is a major plus.

A 16VG60 can look factory but if you want power you change it :lol:

 

BHP is dependant on many things realisticly most 16vG60's will top out at 250-280 bhp

You can get and has been done 270bhp out of a eurospec 8v contraflow so it is a lot cheaper and a torque monster like all forced induction 8v motors

[Musicman 0]

You can get and has been done 270bhp out of a eurospec 8v contraflow

 

At the end of the day, how much power can you realistically put through a FWD setup anyhow?

[rmn 0]

well that is true but to be honest with the right suspension setup and tyres you can put quite a bit down and there is always traction control to help :lol:

[Musicman 0]

traction control to help :lol:

 

I see £££££££! :D

[leon 0]

I dont think crossflow setups look messy just because they are a crossflow. Any engine bay will be as neat or as messy as the builder/owner allows it to be. If you put enough effort/money into what you are doing and spend a bit of time at it you can make them look neat.

[rmn 0]

Personal opintion i supose, i was looking at the black golf in the old pvw with the 8v crossflow and it does seem to be quite neat, but witha G60 in there too your going to fast run out of space for the manifold and need to use a 16vg60 alternator setup.

Just my 2cents worth

[leon 0]

A 16vG60 Altenator set up places the altenator at the back on the head which is generally not possible in a RHD car.

Presume you mean locate the altenator below the GLader.

Even with the crossflow and a G Lader it can be made neat if you put the effort in.

For example, Momentum Tunings twin G60 Crossflow still looks neat and they managed to cram 2 G60 chargers in with a crossflow head.