The Forced Induction 16V Thread

[Lippy 0]

great details mate - I still have those PMs from a while ago, which I refer to from time to time.

 

Hopefully in the next couple of years I can begin to mod the valver to bring up the performance, I am hoping to strip it out and turn it into a road legal track car.

[mrbeige 0]

Is it possible to use 1.9 Diesel turbo exhaust manifold on a 16v head? Do they have the same stud pattern? Could be a cheap option for an exhaust manifold if it fits? If it does fit what make of turbo's did they use? Garrett? Just thinking about the mounting flange!

[moneypit23 0]

I wish i hadn't started reading this, life is about to get very expensive isn't it?

[LowG 0]

Is it possible to use 1.9 Diesel turbo exhaust manifold on a 16v head? Do they have the same stud pattern? Could be a cheap option for an exhaust manifold if it fits? If it does fit what make of turbo's did they use? Garrett? Just thinking about the mounting flange!

 

No you cannot use it, its a match for 8v heads not 16v. Diesel turbos are very small wont flow enough air for 16v unless they are from something like a cat truck :lol:

 

Best way is to save a bit and do it right the first time.

[veedub 0]

LowG, Great info there mate, its making me think twice about going 20vt!

 

In your experience what kinda money are we looking at for an approx 350BHP setup, Just a ballpark figure for parts alone?

 

How is reliability affected when compared to fitting a 20vt motor?

[LowG 0]

LowG, Great info there mate, its making me think twice about going 20vt!

 

In your experience what kinda money are we looking at for an approx 350BHP setup, Just a ballpark figure for parts alone?

 

How is reliability affected when compared to fitting a 20vt motor?

 

 

 

Well lets put it down, most parts I can supply, prices approximates.

 

Forged pistons and conrods(83mm oversize, rods with arp bolts)- 740 pounds

Garret Gt2871r 850pounds

Intercooler 250-300 pounds

Piping and hoses clamps-120

ARP bolts 120 pounds

Turbo manifold-300-400 pounds

Downpipe -100-+

Exhaust system 3"

Tial BOV/wastegate 400 pounds

Inline fuel pump 140

Injectors 440cc 160

 

Ecu

Digifant with custom mapping 600-700?

Stand alone 400+ and tuning

Some sort of boost controller mbc or ebc 50+

 

Reliability wise the block will be bullet proof, in terms of power it will take a lot with forged pistons and rods.

 

I would suggest installing some stronger valve springs for 8000rpm pulls.

 

You wont get 350hp from a 20v motor without going for better parts i.e. turbo manifold bigger downpipe ect ect.

 

To build the 1.8T engine you will be spending the same money, advantage is if you have a 16v already you dont pay for the 1.8T engine

 

So you will be left with a strong engine that can take a lot of abuse, most guys go for 1.8T cuz its cheaper if you dont build the block or change turbos and they don’t want more than 300hp or so.

 

The main difference between the 20v and 16v is the head. Both flow similar with the 20v having the upper hand. When you port them the differences are smaller. The block strength with up rated parts is similar on kr/9a or the 1.8T.

 

Im sure there’s more parts I have missed but that’s a sort of figure you expected to pay, than labour on top if you don’t do it yourself adds up.

 

A setup like that can would be good for around 450hp or more if you go for bigger turbo ect. Then you come to the problem that every fwd car has, putting the power down. Things that help like LSD, a strong clutch some semi slicks if not a daily car OR go 4wd 8)

[veedub 0]

LowG, Thanks bud, so really when your talking bang for bucks 16v seems to win every time.

I was thinking about going down the 20vt route purely because its a more modern engine, however, it does make sense to use the existing valver lump I already have!!

How essential is it to upgrade the internals?

[LowG 0]

LowG, Thanks bud, so really when your talking bang for bucks 16v seems to win every time.

I was thinking about going down the 20vt route purely because its a more modern engine, however, it does make sense to use the existing valver lump I already have!!

How essential is it to upgrade the internals?

 

 

Well put it this way, you need to lower your compression on your valver first. One cheaper way to do it is install a spacer, knock it down to around 9:1 and with intercooler you are safe. I have run around 340hp on stock block to test things, it held fine with many high rpm runs and around 10k, i didnt go higher. I think it might take 270hp reliably but more than that not worth the risk although im sure the engine will take it.

 

I wouldnt do it any other way except installing pistons and conrods in the engine, you might spend more first time but you never have to worry about it.

[veedub 0]

but you never have to worry about it.

 

Good point, money worth spending then!!

[Lippy 0]

does rebuilding the engine effectively make it as "new" or is there some wear that cannot be removed.

 

sorry - that looks a really numpty question on screen - different in my head!

[LowG 0]

does rebuilding the engine effectively make it as "new" or is there some wear that cannot be removed.

 

sorry - that looks a really numpty question on screen - different in my head!

 

 

Well majority of the wear would be around bearings/rings. If you change all the berings on the block, pistons and rebore and if the crank is in good nick then will be good to go.

 

Same with the cylinder head, things that wear out might be lifters, valve guides valves, springs. As long as the head is in a good helthy state all you will need is set of race springs, make sure all valves seal properly, and some new stem seals.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's worth noting that oil consumption and piston wear both increase with forged ones.....and you have to run forgeds loose in the bores (40-50 thou) as they expand more than cast pistons, so it's diesel clatter central in the mornings!

 

It's worth it though as they are stronger than cast pistons and often lighter.

[LowG 0]

Oil consumption isnt that bad as people think, when you go from NA to turbo specially ball bearing turbos which are also watercooled you get a quicker warmup time. With a thermostated sandwich plate for oil cooler you should be ok with warmups.

 

Most of the time when you go forged pistons and turbocharged you find an increased oil consumption, one cause is the pistons of course that have to be run bit loose and the other is blowby caused by boost. Specially on a 16v the cylinder head does not have a breather. If you run boost through it the pressure increase will cause oil to leak through the valve steam seals and into your combustion chamber or into your intake if your breather system feeds back into the intake pipe, you will see a big black smoke cloud behind you lol.

So another pointer for 16vt guys, breathe your heads by installing a breather plastic box that goes where the oil cap goes onto, you can buy it from VAG its a breather box from a new beatle i think its around 7 pounds or so. Part number on pic are correct i think.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nice one, not seen those on valvers before!

[Lippy 0]

7 pounds from VAG, I'll buy it and frame it!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I wonder if that would work on a VR too, as bit of 'extra' breathing, LOL!

[Lippy 0]

would pressure as a result of boost be less due to the extra cylinders "absorbing" it?

[Yandards 0]

So another pointer for 16vt guys, breathe your heads by installing a breather plastic box that goes where the oil cap goes onto, you can buy it from VAG its a breather box from a new beatle i think its around 7 pounds or so. Part number on pic are correct i think.

 

Nice find!

 

Got the price coming up as around £20 but not sure if my price file is correct for the UK or the EU but it still works out around a tenner.

 

Engine breathing is a right PITA on FI blocks and this looks like a very handy little aid to removing the problem.

 

Do you get much oil coming out of the breather? I see the beetle set-up has it on a return to the top of the oil filter housing.

[GazzaG60 0]

it is around 20 quid, its a new beetle part.

 

got one on mine. saves filling a catch can.

[LowG 0]

So another pointer for 16vt guys, breathe your heads by installing a breather plastic box that goes where the oil cap goes onto, you can buy it from VAG its a breather box from a new beatle i think its around 7 pounds or so. Part number on pic are correct i think.

 

Nice find!

 

Got the price coming up as around £20 but not sure if my price file is correct for the UK or the EU but it still works out around a tenner.

 

Engine breathing is a right PITA on FI blocks and this looks like a very handy little aid to removing the problem.

 

Do you get much oil coming out of the breather? I see the beetle set-up has it on a return to the top of the oil filter housing.

 

 

Yea it might be more for some reason I thought I paid 14 pounds for 2 :lol: , on high speed runs and high boost 15psi+ you will get a bit of blowby, I dont insert it back into the intake system in my car, I vent it off to atmosphere or in the catch tank.

[vwdeviant 0]

LowG, Would this help at all with NA/FI engines?

 

Seems like a cheap insurance part..

[LowG 0]

LowG, Would this help at all with NA/FI engines?

 

Seems like a cheap insurance part..

 

With 16v forced induction being supercharged or turbo this will def help or shall i say you need it.

 

In a normaly aspirated 16v it can also help. Especially if you have a tuned 16v reving higher its something nice to have. If you look at other 16v or NA engines they all have a breather system on the valve cover ie the honda 16v engines, vr6 ect ect.

[Yandards 0]

LowG, Would this help at all with NA/FI engines?

 

Seems like a cheap insurance part..

 

With 16v forced induction being supercharged or turbo this will def help or shall i say you need it.

 

In a normaly aspirated 16v it can also help. Especially if you have a tuned 16v reving higher its something nice to have. If you look at other 16v or NA engines they all have a breather system on the valve cover ie the honda 16v engines, vr6 ect ect.

 

For a bit of reading on the 'ideal' engine breathing setup and why click here:

 

http://www.fusionfabrication.fsnet.co.uk/breatherdesign.htm

[Shotgun Dub 0]

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Hi Im new here

I dont know why u lot dont just do and engine swap like DNAC said prob cost about the same to buy a 03 1.8 GTI Turbo engine and loom from the scrappys and drop it in the raaado, and you would most definatly have a lot less trouble.Rate you could even drom a R32 in and get the diff and stuff off a golf rallye bosh it all on, and bang a 4WD Corrado. :notworthy:

[Yandards 0]

]

Hi Im new here

I dont know why u lot dont just do and engine swap like DNAC said prob cost about the same to buy a 03 1.8 GTI Turbo engine and loom from the scrappys and drop it in the raaado, and you would most definatly have a lot less trouble.Rate you could even drom a R32 in and get the diff and stuff off a golf rallye bosh it all on, and bang a 4WD Corrado. :notworthy:

 

For me it is all about trying to keep it 'in the period' that the 'rado was built. (Aside from a set of Wilwood 4 pots and some mk 4 rear calipers on my shopping list) That and I have more plans once I have finished this engine build to build a 'better one'.

 

Biggerbigben has done a 1.8T conversion with a rallye 4wd system on it but I believe he is planning to go haldex instead. 8)

 

As for putting an R32 in that is a lot of work unless you go stand alone management due to the requirement to match the loom, clocks, ignition barrel etc for the imobilser.

 

That and there are far too many 1.8T's running around IMHO.

 

Welcome to the forum! :D