The Forced Induction 16V Thread

[Yandards 0]

Not really liking the bomb. The RPM appears to be better designed, being tapered to prevent unequal boosting and looks OE.

 

That's one of the reasons I'm using a 20v inlet. Just need the bugger modified now!!

 

I have a modded RS2 20v inlet if you need one :wink: Was going to polish it up first and then sell it but you might not need it as the TB plate is G60.

[mrbeige 0]

Not really liking the bomb. The RPM appears to be better designed, being tapered to prevent unequal boosting and looks OE.

 

That's one of the reasons I'm using a 20v inlet. Just need the bugger modified now!!

 

I have a modded RS2 20v inlet if you need one :wink: Was going to polish it up first and then sell it but you might not need it as the TB plate is G60.

 

MMMM PM'd

[tut_gareth 0]

KR and 1.8T rods are the same, so I'm sure the AGU pistons will work in the KR.

 

KR rods are made of cheese though. I'd uprate them personally. Seen far too many 1.8T's bend rods when people slap ATP eliminator GT28RS kits onto their lumps and expect the stock manifold to expel the gases fast enough.

_________________

 

 

Just bought these on a whim, so hopefully they will lower the CR to 8.5 : 1 have i made a good descision?

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

 

(i remember wiseco from my motocross days, so the quality shoulde be ok)

[GazzaG60 0]

not sure the valve recesses are in the right place to clear the valves. 5 v versus 4v

[Yandards 0]

not sure the valve recesses are in the right place to clear the valves. 5 v versus 4v

 

And 5 valves per cylinder is a waste of time too.

 

Too much valve shrouding to be useful, optimal setup is 4 valves per cylinder with a plug in the middle.

[GazzaG60 0]

5v engines can make massive power. it aint a waste of time at all its just that to get the lift on the cams to create very high flow costs an arm. that lift is there on a 16v already. it still takes a lot of effort to make a 16v head flow what a standard big valve 20v will.

 

 

there are lots of high power 20vs about using proper turbos and manifolds to match. .not k04 or ihi. proper turbos.

 

its easier and cheaper to see 350 out of a 20v but easier and cheaper to see 450 from a 16v

[Yandards 0]

5v engines can make massive power. it aint a waste of time at all its just that to get the lift on the cams to create very high flow costs an arm. that lift is there on a 16v already. it still takes a lot of effort to make a 16v head flow what a standard big valve 20v will.

 

 

there are lots of high power 20vs about using proper turbos and manifolds to match. .not k04 or ihi. proper turbos.

 

its easier and cheaper to see 350 out of a 20v but easier and cheaper to see 450 from a 16v

 

I am not saying that 20v engines are not capable of making big power. Just that purely from a cylinder design point of view a 5v per cylinder setup is not going to be as good as 4v per cylinder setup; due to valve shrouding and the compromises on the location of the spark plug.

 

As for if you go big valve or not that depends on how you want your power delivery - bigger valves will mean a lower revving engine.

 

16v heads do flow well out of the box but after they have been breathed on by CNC Heads then 252bhp from a N/A engine at 8.5 RPM with inlet, exhaust, cam and fuel mods is not to be sniffed at.

[tut_gareth 0]

« GazzaG60 » wrote:

not sure the valve recesses are in the right place to clear the valves. 5 v versus 4v

 

cant see any valve recesses on the piston as theyre for a turbo so are just concaved. should do the trick hopefully

[GazzaG60 0]

As for if you go big valve or not that depends on how you want your power delivery - bigger valves will mean a lower revving engine.

 

16v heads do flow well out of the box but after they have been breathed on by CNC Heads then 252bhp from a N/A engine at 8.5 RPM with inlet, exhaust, cam and fuel mods is not to be sniffed at.

 

bigger valves will make a higher revver mate. itll be flat low down due to air velocity speeds. a tad more lag maybe. 2krpm extra revs with a big valve cnc 16v head. for FI they recommend bigger valves in the exhaust side. takes the cost to close to 1500 quid. still saving.

[_leon_ 0]

now this is i'd call 'off the clock' LOL

 

[VeeDub Geezer 0]

now this is i'd call 'off the clock' LOL

 

 

just slightly!!

[blue95 0]

LOL, off the clock.....more like round the clock!!! :lol:

[LowG 0]

In stock form the big port 20v heads will flow more than the 16v head. Once you port them they become similar in performance but the 20v has the upper hand slighlty. The 16v head does not benefit from the low angle exhaust valves. A worked 16v can yield around 240-250cfm of flow, I would excpect the 20v to do a tad higher.

 

16v setup is the best in my opinion, honda produces some very good 16v engines that flow very very well, that is one of the reasons that when you turbocharge a honda you can see around 400whp with only 13psi.

 

20 valve has also got a better designed quench area, can take bit more timing before it detonates.

 

Saying that I would still use the 16v, less moving parts, cheaper for similar performance, more cam options.

 

Being in the small cc range we must use our engines to our advantage, meaning reving them higher. If you have a good cam and good port work reving past 7500rpm makes sense. If you want to rev to 8-9000rpm then you have to worry about valve float so a solid conversion is needed, last time I checked there wasnt such a conversion for the 20v but not sure if they are available now.

 

Im curious to see what the new fsi 16v head flows, im sure its more than the 20v :) .

 

 

 

The gearbox issue.

 

This will depend on what you want to use the car for.

For a road car/daily its easier to deal with 400+ hp with 4wd. The haldex system can be adapted on like few guys have done on here.

 

The fwd 02m box is stronger than 02a, but

not bulletproof, I have heard and seen 02m fail with as little as 350hp.

 

The other option is to install race gears in the stock 02a box, G force produces 02a/02j gearsets, these have been proven to hold 700+hp in a few cars and have done 9 second passes!! g force is a big company that produces gearboxes for drag cars.

 

Quaife is another option, noone knows the limits of what it can take but the price is heavy

[blue95 0]

Had a question regarding turbo oil feeds. There are a couple of places to take the oil feed for the turbo.

 

Back of the head being ideal for low pressure, or using the filter housing for higher pressure.

 

I know with some turbos there are limits to the pressure, i.e. bearing run turbos.

 

My Qs is there are definitive list as to whcih turbo needs which feed?

 

Am I correct in assuming Garret turbos have bearings and need low pressure as opposed tot he KKK turbo which runs on fluid (oil) and therefore can cope with higher pressure.

 

Thanks

[LowG 0]

Had a question regarding turbo oil feeds. There are a couple of places to take the oil feed for the turbo.

 

Back of the head being ideal for low pressure, or using the filter housing for higher pressure.

 

I know with some turbos there are limits to the pressure, i.e. bearing run turbos.

 

My Qs is there are definitive list as to whcih turbo needs which feed?

 

Am I correct in assuming Garret turbos have bearings and need low pressure as opposed tot he KKK turbo which runs on fluid (oil) and therefore can cope with higher pressure.

 

Thanks

 

 

Back of the head is fine on any turbo on teh 16v. However Garrett Ballbearing turbos ie the GT series need an oil pressure restriction, this is a fitting that limits the oil pressure and is put inline with the oil feed line.

Garrett journal bearing ie the T3/T4 turbos dont need pressure reducer, they run different bearing with different seals.

 

Should be mentioned that letting a turbo spin freely ie no boost pipes conected is bad, also make sure boost pipes are connected nice and tight as if they pop off during acceleration you can damage the turbo as you tend to overspin it.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

400 at the wheels from 13psi? Which turbo/Honda?

 

Bill Schimmel has broken Quaife gearsets, they're not very strong at all and they don't come with a warranty either. The only gearset he's found that holds is a straight cut set from the Czech republic.

 

Gemini were the best boxes for VWs, but sadly no longer made as Ricardo took them over a few years ago.

[GazzaG60 0]

thats about 240lbs ft at 9krpm. def in honda b18c or 16a no worries. more boost and 700 wheel. turbo wise gt35 35r 40, sc61 are usual honda blowers. look far too big but their engines are far superior to ours. those figures are pie ion the sky for most vw 16v owners.

 

cnc heads reckon they made 540 crank on a audi 16v with 1 bar. one super head and a big set of cams.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

240 lb/ft at 9000rpm? That's pretty cr@p actually. I'd rather have a more restrictive engine and more torque thanks.

[GazzaG60 0]

depends how you look at it. id say its pretty good to make any power at 9krpm.

 

most fwd cars can put down a full 240lbsft. if you get 4k to 9k thats a nice flat 240lbsft for 5krpm.

 

very fast indeed. torque only breaks things and traction is the first thing in fwd.

 

not wanting to cause an arguement but id expect a 240lbsft b18c to stonk all over your vr with 100lbsft more.

 

how many sub 10 hondas are there compared with vws. plenty of 1.6 hondas will show vrt and 16vt alike their rear end.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Impressive for such a small engine, if you're into that sort of thing. BMW got 1500hp from a 1.5 turbo in 1983, so this is hardly ground breaking.

 

Don't forget to inform the readers that these 10 second CRXs need 22-24" slicks to acheive those times though ;-)

 

I suspect a Rhonda CRX turbo probably could show my car the door, or any 4 pot turbo weighing 300Kg less than my car, for that matter. If racing was my only incentive for building a VW turbo, then I wouldn't have chosen a small midrange turbo to do battle with. It's a driver's car, for driving on English roads, not a fact sheet of numbers for impressing teenagers with. I have no use for a 9000 rpm rev range, or torque half that of it's power output, otherwise I'd have been investigating the Honda route myself.

[GazzaG60 0]

fair doos that. but they aint crap. these aint race cars either plenty of 400 wheel road hondas. yes you would need slicks for a 10 but most sub 12 vws run slicks too.

 

most spirited driving is not in the mid range either its 4-6k maybe 7k or 8k. even the G60 wont win a bypass sprint short shifting.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nah, I meant the torque was pretty cr@p next to the impressive hp output! not a swipe at Hondas, I'd say that about any brand of engine with that characteristic :-)

 

My high revving days were done years ago when I got bored of my Valvers. I'm getting old and lazy and prefer to waft around on torque instead. Honda's VTEC just does nothing for me and to me they feel slow as arse too, in N/A form obviously. Same with the RX8's rotary.....revvy for sure, but dull and gutless.

[GazzaG60 0]

its nice to have torque but im kinda pissewd with spinning wheels all the time. i know the valve will bring some of that and 400 ish hp is deff gonna spin them but with the right map i feel i can make the transition to boost smooth for the road. the slower spool on my sc61 will help that.

 

i know where your comming from. 2 of my mates have NA valves and they feel a tad slugish in the low end especially compared with the G60. hope i like it after all my hard work.

 

picked up a turbosmart e-boost 2 the other day. hoping to use that to good effect too.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Mine has a surprising amount of grip considering most of the torque is at 3000rpm. Dunno why, maybe it's just the quaife and continental Sport contact 2 tyres, but it grips like turd to a blanket. Oh and 180kilos over the front wheels helps too :-) The only time traction becomes a problem is foolish throttle openings in the wet in 2nd gear, and that's it.

 

But I hear where you're coming from, later spool, get the car going and then deliver the boost.

 

Turbosmart sounds good, looked at those myself but the display case size was a little big for where I wanted to put it, very good peice of hardware though, as is everything T smart make....

[Yandards 0]

Always liked the Conti Sport Contacts myself, shame you can't get the 3's for a 15" rim.