CCGB - Do read this ...

[Tempest 0]

Following my attempts to help a member recently in sorting out why this member hadn't received a copy of the recent Sprinter, as I wanted to avoid another situation, where people would start complaining in the usual way about the CCGB and all, my attempt has backfired:

 

Vicki, the CCGB membership secretary wrote back to this member:

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I did reply to your e-mail on the 3rd January which you sent to me on

the 1st.

I can assure you this address was changed,

You can see from what I have cut from the membership list below that it was changed. I do not know what List Eric looked at but if you could please e-mail

the treasurer Judith she will confirm the address on the latest list.

I do not know what has happened to your Sprinter.

 

I am a volunteer and have been doing this job for the past four years

and this is the first e-mail questioning me - How did this happen ?

I am sorry but I don't work for you.

Well I shall be standing down as membership secretary as from 1st

April as I do not appreciate being spoken to like this.

I was made redundant at the end of last year and have had several

problems since but I have always maintained the membership was

kept up to date. I shall give the reason for my resigning as this e-mail

you have sent.

 

Vicki

 

Can I just remind members of the following:

 

May sound harsh to you folks, but hope you understand, but I hope this'll be a "lesson" in terms of not really being able to push anyone on the CCGB committee, as we're all volunteers with busy work lives (I run my own company, which is probably the worst working life option you can go for in terms of not having much spare time, and spare time you also want to spend on your own cars), and things do go wrong, sometimes even beyond our control, such as Royal Mail not delivering .

 

It would be prohibitively expensive to send out each copy by recorded delivery via Royal Mail (so that's not a solution to this apparently on-going problem of things getting lost, and with 300 members things do get lost; we're in the hands of Royal Mail just like anyone else), plus other members would then complain, that they'd have to go to their local sorting office to collect their issue, simply because RM never deliver mails when you're in (I'm a single person household, so no-one at home to sign when the postman arrives, which is always afetr I've left for work).

 

All we're asking for from our members is a little patience. Yes, things go wrong, which is annoying, but we were hoping that despite the CCGB charging its members, it would be apparent that the CCGB is not a profit-making organisation, indeed the people doing the work do not get paid. I have unfortunately just recently heard comments from other members again which hurt me, and sometimes I, too, think, "Ah well, I'll just chuck it in, and let them do it better!", which of course doesn't happen, as too many people are good at complaining, but not getting things done.

 

Don't take me the wrong way, folks, but these issues are bogging all the committee members, whose work behind the scenes may not always be obvious to members, but still countless hours of work get invested in the CCGB, and then you get complaints from members rather than some thank you's, complaints about issues that are sometimes even beyond our control.

 

Once again, we're a bunch of volunteers, not an ultra-slick commercial company with mahusive budgets like Microsoft, BT and whatnot (and how many times do they get it right? Be honest ... ;-) ), trying our best.

 

Enough rant. :-)

 

Tempest

[corozin 0]

That is really awful Eric. Vicki has been an absolute rock to the CCGB for a number of years now, and it is tragedy that some muppet (even if it is a member) could upset her to this extent. Ironic also that Vicki doesn't even drive - her other half Chris owns 2 Corrados and she did the job cos she liked the people in the Club.

 

Perhaps the member who caused the problem would be willing to step up to the plate and replace Vicki and run the membership himself? I bet they don't volunteer...

 

As you say it's tough when you try and do the right thing and volunteer your own time (free) to help run something like this and extend your hobby and try to do stuff for people. Too many people are ready to criticise & complain, and too few (alas) willing to stand up and try to contribute.

 

A damn shame...

[craigowl 0]

Certainly appreciate what you guys do.

Have always got Sprinter OK when issued.

Do not think I would make a great big offensive fuss if I did not receive one.

So many ungrateful people about and so many devious parasites working for organisations that used to be the envy of the world.

Sincere regards to all CCGB volunteers.

 

I am sure this will be echoed many times today.

[LJ 0]

I find it really annoying that any person that does voluntary work is not treated with the utmost respect! After all these people do great work at their own cost.

 

Some people ..... :-(

 

 

Chris - appreciative CCGB member

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

thats sad, but all the same Dont pick on Royal mail, im a postman and the amount of people who come and complain to us about not recieving mail, accusing us of loosing it and then it turns up in the post the next day!! I sent my application form off to join CCGB a week or 2 ago as i would like to join, but may be interested in helping out if possible, due to having a lot of free time on my hands.....

[CazzaVR 0]

Poor Vicki! :(

 

This is bang out of order- there are ways to complain- polite, constructive etc, not have a right go at someone who does the sec work out of the goodness of her own heart.

[craigowl 0]

Not knocking most postmen, G60SC_Stoney. :salute:

Our two or three regulars are great, and I see them a lot since I retired and have a blether. However, it seems to be common knowledge that a criminal element has infiltrated, say the sorting offices, e.g. in a big way, particularly "down south".

[dukest 0]

Eric, this is sad to hear. I don't know any of the committee personally but understand that you all put your time in for free.

 

However, to me this once again raises the question of amalgamating the Club and the Forum. The following is not directed to you personally - I'm just using your thread to raise it again!

 

So many people were in favour on the club/forum combination poll thread (that I've just read end-end) that it seems there just needs to be a well supported democratic vote on the issue raised at the CCGB AGM. There must be a majority of CCGB members that are also Forum members that could carry a vote to combine the two?

 

I am going to post in that other thread now to try to raise it again. If the CCGB can vote to make online membership compulsory then its barely-used forum can be abandoned, all members can be required to maintain their own address details online and ideas on how to share funds betweent the Club and the Forum can be meaningfully debated.

 

Time required (often duplicated) by all would then be reduced, content for the Sprinter could more successfully be solicited (or even simply lifted and edited/abridged) from the Forum and combined funding (hopefully) improved.

 

With 2 weeks to go before the AGM, time now seems to be of the essence to take the sensible step once and for all. I don't know Stevemac's views on the issue but if he is sympathetic then we should be taking proactive steps to make it happen.

 

Cheers

John

[M15 VW 0]

Perhaps the member who caused the problem would be willing to step up to the plate and replace Vicki and run the membership himself? I bet they don't volunteer...

 

[align=justify]First off, Im not a bloke and I would happily take over any duties asked of me regarding the CCGB.

 

Secondly, Eric's comments were mostly generalised about comments various members have made recently, not specifically about my enquiry which was originally asking if anyone knew where our copies were.

 

I emailed the general club address to ask this and then a second time when I had no response.

 

I didnt at any time question Vicki's abilities or the committee's abilities of running the club as I received a confirmation email back from vicki regarding our new address details and even mentioned this to Eric. I merely asked Eric if he knew what happened.

 

He then looked on the system and read out our old address and told me to email vicki's address with my query. As stated in vicki's email, she did not know what list he had.

 

Not once did I actually put blame on anyone for this situation I was just trying to find out what happened.

 

I have never complained about the CCGB nor will I ever. I understand the stress and strains of running a voluntary club like the CCGB. I merely had an enquiry.

 

I have obviously caused a problem by asking a question and I appologise for that, I will never enquire anything again.

 

I cant honestly see how my one question to the club generally has led to Vicki resigning, it cannot honestly be just my single question being forwarded to her that has led her to this decision.[/align]

[ReekieVR 0]

I was well impressed with the quality of the recent Sprinter and Vicki has always been courteous and efficient with all of my requests. Well done Vicki and all volunteers from the CCGB.

[Walesy 0]

With 2 weeks to go before the AGM, time now seems to be of the essence to take the sensible step once and for all. I don't know Stevemac's views on the issue but if he is sympathetic then we should be taking proactive steps to make it happen.

 

I would also suggest asking Andi what his thoughts are with regards to the forum being used by the CCGB.

[dukest 0]

understood Walesy, will comment in the Poll thread.

[Tempest 0]

I will try and talk to Vicki tonight, and explain the situation, as good as I can. I did manage after all, once before to keep her on-board ;-)

 

If anyone else would like to offer any input to the club, just feel free to nominate yourself (PM, email Stevemac, Judith, Steve Alleston or me - where some of us have more time than others to be on-line, and are on-line at different times etc.), appear at the AGM and nominate yourself there for any post that might take your fancy. It can be fun, but it can also sometimes be a little frustrating, when things do go wrong.

 

If the CCGB can vote to make online membership compulsory

 

Don't forget the CCGB does have quite a large number of members that aren't on-line, some don't even have computers. OK, everyone on this forum will now argue that that's insane in the 21st century and so forth, but I don't think it realistic to exclude members based on whether they have a computer, TV (don't have one myself, as it's a complete waste of time - yes I do miss out on stuff, but so what? Time I spend on my cars and with friends instead).

 

the question of amalgamating the Club and the Forum

 

Well, I was suggesting that myself 2 years ago, when it got blocked. In the meantime I've also learnt to understand the CCGB's point of view, and am analysing both sides.

 

Ultimately it would be a good thing. Main issue remains: Both sides must be willing to talk to each other, share accounts (where does the money go to, no hidden accounts, as CCGB members have a right to see how their money is spent), and votes etc. Only then can I see a fair collaboration happening. This is not so far away any more as we think, just needs a bit of will-power from both sides, 2 steps from both sides onto the same bridge, and shake hands again :-)

 

Tempest

[Jim 2]

At the end of the day, its Andi's say about what happens with the forum. He's created this place from nothing and I think has no interest in merging the club forum. So a merger is off the cards ultimately.

[Yandards 0]

The subject of the club and forum almagamating was raised at last years CCGB AGM and has been discussed by many forum and CCGB members at shows etc last year.

 

I think the problem is that the club offers different things to the forum, and having everything under one roof would cause lots of potential problems from a legal side as the club has legal responsibilities due to it being a club.

[Supercharged 2]

Yep - I think all events should be organised on this forum but also advertised in the sprinter and to the eGroup but otherwise I don't think there is anything to be gained from a merger at this point...

[dukest 0]

Jim, appreciate what you've said and it is of course up to Andi. I don't think the positive arguments go away though and if the Club could come up with a reasonable enough proposition that doesn't impose more on him than perhaps the creation of a password protected section then perhaps there is a way forward?

 

Yandards, I have read all the discussion that I could find today and I agree it has been discussed a lot! :) I think the issue is that most people feel that the Club offers less and less compared to the free Forum (which is now organising it's own stands etc.) and therefore on balance the Club represents much worse value. That said, the concept of an "official" Club is still very appealing to lots of people and so supporting that and possibly addressing Forum funding issues remains an undeniably appealing prospect in many opinions.

 

I wish I could comment on the legal side but if the Club simply utilised the Forum rather than there being a legal relationship then maybe this can be coped with?

[blackcat 0]

Have all the sprinters been sent out now because I haven't received mine yet?

 

edit: p.s. I'm not putting blame on anyone I just wondered

[corozin 0]

Perhaps the member who caused the problem would be willing to step up to the plate and replace Vicki and run the membership himself? I bet they don't volunteer...

 

[align=justify]First off, Im not a bloke and I would happily take over any duties asked of me regarding the CCGB.

 

Secondly, Eric's comments were mostly generalised about comments various members have made recently, not specifically about my enquiry which was originally asking if anyone knew where our copies were.

 

I emailed the general club address to ask this and then a second time when I had no response.

 

I didnt at any time question Vicki's abilities or the committee's abilities of running the club as I received a confirmation email back from vicki regarding our new address details and even mentioned this to Eric. I merely asked Eric if he knew what happened.

 

He then looked on the system and read out our old address and told me to email vicki's address with my query. As stated in vicki's email, she did not know what list he had.

 

Not once did I actually put blame on anyone for this situation I was just trying to find out what happened.

 

I have never complained about the CCGB nor will I ever. I understand the stress and strains of running a voluntary club like the CCGB. I merely had an enquiry.

 

I have obviously caused a problem by asking a question and I appologise for that, I will never enquire anything again.

 

I cant honestly see how my one question to the club generally has led to Vicki resigning, it cannot honestly be just my single question being forwarded to her that has led her to this decision.[/align]

 

Hi Nikki,

YHM

[Guest]

always been very happy with the CCGB over the 4+ years i've been a member, and Vicki seemed very pleasant from the limited communication I've had with the club.

 

It's a real shame to see her leave, and I hope she will reconsider her choice, as I think she will be greatly missed in the running of the club.

 

I also think the forum/CCGB joint thing has been discussed at great length, and the answer has always been a resounding no, from both sides, which in a way is a sad thing, as anyone who is solely the member of one, is missing out on the benefits of the other, But I can understand the reasons behind the choice.

 

Dave

(Another satisfied CCGB member)

[Tempest 0]

I think the issue is that most people feel that the Club offers less and less compared to the free Forum (which is now organising it's own stands etc.) and therefore on balance the Club represents much worse value

 

That's a rather bold statement to make, and another slap in the faces of the committee members, IMHO.

 

Not wishing to dig up old issues, but statements like this, no matter how they're meant, just aren't true.

 

Some keywords:

 

1. CCGB National Day

2. Stands at major shows (never seen a CF stand other than at Ed38)

3. Club mag for those who (I've mentioned this before) have not got Internet access, and even those that do - the CF never dishes out mags

4. Discounts with suppliers

5. Meets at things like Motor Museum in Coventry parking up on major public spaces (requiring public indemnity insurance, the CF cannot even afford this)

 

I don't like to see discussions at this point of "Oh, yes but the CF has had a clubstand at Tatton Park in year so-and-so and whatnot ..." because it's the consistency of being at all major shows each year that counts, allowing all members to put their pride and joy on stands whenever they like, and not just in year so-and-so, whenever someone from the CF feels like organising a stand.

 

Sorry if this post sounds a bit harsh, but it does exactly summarise the differences between a club and a forum, and hence supports my argument in claiming that there very much IS a difference between a club and a forum.

 

A forum is and will always be only a loose amalmagation of like-minded people, who range from wanting to really get involved (these would be better off joining a club) to casual owners, who wish to get involved as and when they feel like it, even disappearing entirely from the scene whenever they like. The turnover on forums is substantially higher than with a club, and the dedication is substantially lower.

 

No, I also don't want to hear Mods coming along at this point saying "But we put in loads of unpaid hours cleaning up this place", because I know you do, as I myself am a Mod on the German Roccoforum, and don't need to be told what it involves. It still isn't comparable to the type of dedication required to get stands at shows, get a mag published, etc., which are all sorts of things that require a lot more planning and input than just a few minutes here and there during a working day checking a forum.

 

Rant over :-)

 

Tempest

[Guest]

This is getting a bit boring now. Every year prior to the AGM this subject pops up. I was looking forward to going, but if this is going to dominate the discussions again, as it did 2 years ago, i'm not sure if I'll bother. If a decision hasn't been made in those 2 years, then it's never likely to.

What's wrong with the way things are? Everyone except a few people seem happy enough, so why change?

I don't have a problem with leaving the things the way they are, and don't mind paying my membership for the CCGB as i have for the last 8 years. For me the CCGB is great value, and is much much more than just a magazine every 6 months.

It is a shame about Vicki. In the few times i've contacted her, she's always been very helpful and prompt with her response. Maybe she's just had enough, which is understandable....

 

Steve

[Goldie 2]

I think Steve has just hit the nail right on the head there. Let the club and the forum run as they are, i dont believe that a merger is needed or needs to be discussed....

 

I consider the forum as a means of gaining and passing on any information that i can, it is an ideal method of daily contact with other like minded people.I think of the club as more for the car and have enjoyed the meets i have attended through the club as i have with the forum..

 

Leave everything as it is, keeps the mags regular and i believe everyone will be happy.

 

Satisified Corrado Forum and CCGB member...

[Guest]

I think the issue is that most people feel that the Club offers less and less compared to the free Forum (which is now organising it's own stands etc.) and therefore on balance the Club represents much worse value

 

That's a rather bold statement to make, and another slap in the faces of the committee members, IMHO.

 

I actually pay a lot more to the forum annually than I do to the CCGB, so would expect a good service here.

 

for anyone who doesn't donate/subscribe, you are lucky that some people have chosen to give a donation, as there is no way in hell this forum would be here for you in the shape it is without that funding!

[dukest 0]

Eric and all, I didn't mean to offend either the committee or Andi. Seemingly I may have done both, so apologies and let no more be said.

John