Best aftermarket brake discs?

[A1 VR6 0]

Sounds pretty nice!

 

Just be aware - brakes need running in and will be downright scary the first time you take the car out so leave a lot of braking room! They will get better and better as they bed in tho 8)

 

Dinkus is absolutely right - ignore at your peril! I fitted Black Diamond grooved and Pagid FR pads all round and they did take a bit of time to bed in but once they did very happy with them :D

[Mystic Rado 0]

Hmm yeah I was thinking about pagid pads, heard good things. Black Diamond discs likewise, though I'm tempted by Brembo Max discs purely because they're only grooved (rather than being drilled) and GSF are doing them at £90 pair inc delivery for a VR6 which doesn't seem bad at all. Anybody had any experience of them?

 

I've had two sets of Brembo Max on my Mk2 GTi and fitted a set to the 'rado last year. Bottom line is they seem fine to me. No problems with warping, cracking or premature wear, good brake performance with both Pagid FR and EBC Greens on the VR6. I've never used anything else bar stock discs, but they seem like a decent value option and basically do the job, like, well, brake discs really ;-)

[dinkus 10]

i have got some brembo "max"?? from GSF, mated to pagid fr's. all i can say is superb. no brake fade at all, and they are lasting well :D the worst brakes i ever had were the zimmerman brake discs, i had 3 sets off them in just over 8 months on my last vr, i kid ya not i had chunks falling out of them, i will try and find a pic of one of them.

 

Ahh yeah Zimmermans! They were the 'cheapo' ones I was referring to in my post, but couldn't remember the name of them. Avoid. :lol:

[steve_16v 0]

Thing is, the vast majority of standard sized aftermarket brake discs come from one of two places, the OEM manufacturer or the pattern manufacturer, then get tarted up and rebranded accordindingly. If they're cheap they're rebranded pattern parts that are for want of a better word, tat, and best avoided (zimmerman, ebc, etc.). The more expensive ones (black diamond for example), are OEM discs that have been tarted up. The top of the line ones (tar-ox, brembo) are OEM discs that have been treated for extra strength, then tarted up.

 

At the end of the day you get what you pay for, just avoid drilled standard discs like the plague.

[jonnyboyo 0]

My unbranded drilled & grooved have been faultless :)

[DelMonty 0]

What do people think about Tarox disks? I bought a pair second hand cheap to use when my current OEM's have had it, but they are grooved and drilled, I'm a bit worried about using them now!

[dinkus 10]

Tarox make some seriously nice high-end brakes, so I'd guess their disks are ok. Probably not dissimilar to the Brembo Max ones if they're standard size tho.

[Mystic Rado 0]

So what are the factors that make one brake disc better than another and how apparent would the difference between a cheapo pattern part and some top-end bling be assuming the same brake calipers, on the road that is rather than barrelling round a track with smoke coming off your pads ;-)

 

I've found the Brembo Max discs more than adequate for erm, spirited road use, and I'd be surprised if I could tell the difference between them and discs costing two or three times as much. Cheap discs - Zimmerman have a rep for it - seem more likely to warp or crack, but why is that?

 

Do they use different grades of steel? Are more expensive discs treated in some way to improve their friction capabilities? Can you actually feel the difference at the pedal?

 

Fwiw, I'd have thought you'd be far more likely to benefit from fitting better brakes pads than expensive discs, though ideally you'd do both.

 

Reason I'm wondering is that I'm just about to fit 288mm brakes on the 'rado and I'm thinking that the money would be better spent on getting the calipers professionally refurbed and coated rather than blowing it on fancy discs. I'd be quite happy to fit Brembo Max again or even OE Golf VR6 parts and EBC Greens.

 

I'm talking about real world road use btw, not track days :-)

 

Any thoughts...

[dinkus 10]

There are two differences that I know of:

 

The grade of steel - cheaper disks use cheaper steel, so it's more prone to cracking/distorting/wearing out than better grades.

 

If you're looking at drilled disks, then you also have the way they're made. The Zimmermans are just standard disks that have holes drilled in them. Proper 'drilled' disks are actually cast with the holes in them. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but the proper cast holes are far stronger than the drilled ones.

 

Once you get up into megabucks brakes then you're looking at exotic alloys and treatments on the disks and then multi-part disks where the actual friction surface bolts together with a lightweight bell to attach to the hub.

 

As you say though - you'll notice far more improvement in braking performance from better pads/callipers than you will from the disks. But the better grade of disks you buy (to an extent) will improve how long they last for.

[herisites 0]

So where's the best place to buy Black Diamond discs and EBC Greenstuff pads from?

[Mystic Rado 0]

Thanks Dinkus, that's pretty much what I thought, but it's nice to have it confirmed.

[dinkus 10]

So where's the best place to buy Black Diamond discs and EBC Greenstuff pads from?

 

GSF?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The grade of steel - cheaper disks use cheaper steel, so it's more prone to cracking/distorting/wearing out than better grades.

 

Once you get up into megabucks brakes then you're looking at exotic alloys and treatments on the disks and then multi-part disks where the actual friction surface bolts together with a lightweight bell to attach to the hub.

 

Indeed. Cheap, softer metals will feel good for initial bite, but will warp quickly and easily.

The main purpose of ally bells is to allow the iron disc to expand and dissipate heat at a different rate to the hub mounting face, therefore reducing the chance of heat distortion. What normally happens with a solid disc is the road wheel and hub absorb a lot of braking heat, which creates a temperature differential, leading to warping.... but this generally only happens when A) the disc is very old and thin, B) the disc is made of cheese and C) you overcook them on a track or during bed in.

Bells look good too :lol:

 

If you're looking at drilled disks, then you also have the way they're made. The Zimmermans are just standard disks that have holes drilled in them. Proper 'drilled' disks are actually cast with the holes in them. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but the proper cast holes are far stronger than the drilled ones.

 

Indeed again, although drilling removes a discs effective surface area for heat dissipation, so to compensate for that, they make the discs thicker.....32mm in the 911's case. This just doesn't happen on Drilled OE discs. They're a lose lose situation, don't bother. In standard sizes, drillings and grooves serve no useful purpose. It's technology born on the race track to help gain a few extra tenths..... plain discs are perfectly adequate for the road.

[herisites 0]

Ok i have just been looking around and im looking at £111 for the black diamond discs and about £48 for the greenstuff pads, with delivery etc its about £175. Does this sound about right? Thats from Motorsport World btw, havent found them any cheaper anywhere else. GSF dont sell the discs and neither do ECP however ECP were cheaper for the pads but only a few quid so might as well get the lot from one place in one delivery.

 

Also on their website it recommends Greenstuff pads as a OE replacement on the VR6 and recommends Red Stuff for a performance upgrade and as standard on R32's so would it be better to go for Red Stuff pads? Or am i right in thinking that the red stuffs need warming up a lot more to work properly hence why they are used for track days?

[chazrad 0]

Ok i have just been looking around and im looking at £111 for the black diamond discs and about £48 for the greenstuff pads, with delivery etc its about £175. Does this sound about right? Thats from Motorsport World btw, havent found them any cheaper anywhere else. GSF dont sell the discs and neither do ECP however ECP were cheaper for the pads but only a few quid so might as well get the lot from one place in one delivery.

 

Also on their website it recommends Greenstuff pads as a OE replacement on the VR6 and recommends Red Stuff for a performance upgrade and as standard on R32's so would it be better to go for Red Stuff pads? Or am i right in thinking that the red stuffs need warming up a lot more to work properly hence why they are used for track days?

 

I would have thought the Red stuff pads are recommended for the R32 because

a) it is a fast car

b) it is a heavy fast car...

 

I reckon you will be fine with Green Stuff pads. That is all I am going to use, with 288 Black Diamond discs. :D

[herisites 0]

 

I would have thought the Red stuff pads are recommended for the R32 because

a) it is a fast car

b) it is a heavy fast car...

 

I reckon you will be fine with Green Stuff pads. That is all I am going to use, with 288 Black Diamond discs. :D

 

Ok cool, i know the greenstuffs are good, just wondering why the site recommends red stuffs for the car, but i suppose thats just for track day use.

[jackflash 0]

I got the ebc greenstuffs for the front and rear (standard size discs) for £80 inc. delivery off of eurocarparts then black diamond front discs at £114 and rears at £98 inc. delivery from rimstyle.com which I didn't think was too bad

[dinkus 10]

Green stuffs are fine for Corrados, red stuffs will take too much warming up.

 

The more weight you've gotta stop, the bigger the brakes you need. Scruffythefirst's Dax Rush has 280mm, single pot brakes on it with bog standard pads and disks. If it weren't for the 4 point harnesses, you'd get thrown clean out of the car when he stamps on the brakes. Thing is, it only weighs 650kg.

 

An R32 is a lardy bugger, so has monster 380mm brakes to be able to stop just as quickly as the kit car. Similarly, as the brakes have to expel a huge amount more energy, they get a lot hotter - hence suggesting red stuffs.

 

Both green and red stuff pads will brake just as well, but are designed for different operating temperatures. You'll struggle to get a Corrado's brakes hot enough to make the red stuff pads work properly on the road, so won't work very well.

 

Similarly, if you put green stuffs on an R32, you'd overheat them pretty easily and they wouldn't work very well either.

[dukest 0]

does anyone know anything about TRW discs, I heard it was the new name for an established company but I forget which and don't know if that was accurate or not?

 

cheers

john

[Jim Bowen 1]

useful thread , i need to buy discs and pads all round, i say need, i just want to lol

[herisites 0]

I have ordered my black diamond discs and greenstuff pads so will be fitting these next week some time. Whats the ebst brake fluid to use? Just regular DOT4 or DOT 5.1?

[KADVR6 0]

enjoy bleeding the brake system Rob :lol: it was the 2nd worst job i have had to do on my corrado. the worst job was a heater matrix. it took about 6litres of brake fluid to get it working properly.

 

have ya got a gunson easy bleed???

 

karl

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Go with 5.1, it has a higher boiling point.

 

Bleeding isn't all that bad :lol: Piece of cake with an easi-bleed. There is some debate as to whether the engine should be running when doing this (due the ABS pump needing a bleed too) but if you're not doing a 'full bleed', you should be OK doing a corner at a time.

 

I use Yellowstuff pads, following on the EBC discussion. They're awesome.....but unlike the reds and greens, they're very dusty!

[KADVR6 0]

i had a right nightmare kev, due to a brake pipe bursting on me :( so i had drained all the brake fluid out of the system. took me about 4 days to get it right :shock:

[herisites 0]

I dont think i have an easy bleed, i know we had one for a motorbike but dont think we ever got one for cars. I will check though, and if not i will most probably get one!

 

I thought 5.1 would be a better choice, cheers Kev.