VR6 fuel lines...

[adamukcorrado 0]

The two fuel lines that run from the back of the engine bay to the fuel rail on the front of the engine are completely knackered- (perished and p**sing petrol all over road!!!)

The hoses that are on there have a metal braid on the outside- is this neccesary or is it just for show??

 

VW have just quoted £30 (+vat) for each of the 2 hoses!! but the local car shop sells fuel line at £4.50 per metre but without the external braid, why the price difference? there are no special fittings- just a jubilee clip each end.

[blue95 0]

LOL - if it wasn't required VW wouldn't do it!

 

Stick with the OEM braided hoses, not worth risking an under bonnet fire for the sake of £50. Also worth asking VW for a discount they are usually pretty good.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

VR6s don't have braided fuel lines. Someone else has fitted those.

 

Just make up some new lines with regular rubber hose, but make sure it is proper hose that can handle fuel injection pressures.

Use Aeroquip hose if you can find it. It can handle 250psi and is seriously heavy duty.

[KADVR6 0]

or try Pirtek, there fuel line is rated to 340psi, and they are cheaper then Aeroquip :)

 

http://search.orange.co.uk/redirect?ug= ... k.co.uk%2F

 

 

karl

[adamukcorrado 0]

excellent, thats what i needed to k now, thanks guys.:salute:

[was8v 0]

The original fuel hose is helpfully 7.5mm - what best top replace it with - 7 or 8mm internal diameter fuel hose?

[Supercharged 2]

VW hose is 8mm ID, make sure you use the proper constant tension clips - not jubilee's!

[yeti 0]

well after failing to find a place locally that i could get the line from in time for my mot next week i ordered the 2 from vw... £68 with discount!!!!! :( but on the plus side.... took 15mins to fit (with a broken wrist! lol) and no more fuel smell... no more 99ron streaming out of the side of my fuelrail! and 3mpg more :-)

[was8v 0]

well after failing to find a place locally that i could get the line from in time for my mot next week i ordered the 2 from vw... £68 with discount!!!!! :( but on the plus side.... took 15mins to fit (with a broken wrist! lol) and no more fuel smell... no more 99ron streaming out of the side of my fuelrail! and 3mpg more :-)

 

 

I was just going to go with 2x of these:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140210600892

 

The pipe just wont be bent in the right places, but the pipe is nothing special..... oh and 4x proper fuel pipe clips to secure:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290102179170

 

How is the fuel line secured at the other (i.e. not fuel rail) end?

[was8v 0]

Back on this, I still haven't got around to it.

 

 

What length of pipe do I need to do the 2 engine bay bits?

 

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/fuel-hose-8m ... -613-p.asp

 

and these clips:

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/fuel-hose-cl ... -975-p.asp

[fla 9]

You need about 60cm per hose so 1.2m in totoal. Best get 1.5m and trim it down as you get teh bend of each hose sorted. You can pick up the hose clips from halfords, those ones look fine. Dont use jubilees, ther tension is uneven around the circumference which is all the more critical in small dia pipes.

[aclwalker 3]

Hey, good timing. I was just about to start a new thread about this.

 

I went to GSF and they only sell 5mm, 7mm and 9mm hose. The 9mm looks about right from an external diameter POV, but the internal looks too big. The 7mm just looks too small.

 

So, I went to Halfords and was told that they don't do any hose at all now. I asked when they started not selling any hose and the guy said "Years ago. There's no money in it.". So I said:

 

"Well there's even less money in not doing it, because I'm not going to buy the hose clips I was going to buy."

 

Is he talking rubbish? Have Halfords stopped doing hose altogether?

 

Anyway, that cbsonline website looks good. I was thinking of buying some of that Sytec hose from Ebay. There's somebody on there that seems to be a Weber carb specialist, but sells fuel injection stuff too. They seem to have their own website as well as the Ebay shop, but this cbsonline lot look OK, except the delivery is £6!

 

Here's the Ebay link: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FUEL-INJECTION-HOSE-BLACK-RUBBER-NITRILE-8mm-ID-1m_W0QQitemZ130249049676QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130249049676&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[fla 9]

I saw some halfords hose albeit a few months back - you need high pressure fuel hose, which afaik they stock. About £6 per piece, so you need two off.

[was8v 0]

Ok I have bought 2x:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0261513114

 

and

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0004567911

 

Will let you know how I get on.

[aclwalker 3]

I got a response today from Halfords saying:

Please accept my apologies for the incorrect information given in our

store.

 

We still stock a range of fuel and injector hoses ranging from £3.99 per

mtr to £7.99 per mtr, depending on size.

 

Please speak to your local store Manager for further assistance with this

matter.

 

So, it seems that I was either told a lot of rubbish by the guy, or my local Halfords hasn't been ordering the stuff in.

[Supercharged 2]

It's 8mm ID hose you need and yep, GSF no longer do that size which seems bizzare seeing as there whole business was built on selling spares for VW's!

 

Halfords do it and i'm sure all stores should have it apart from maybe the smaller metro's - make sure you get the high quality stuff with the 'ribbed' finish as this will last longer and bend better - vey cheap with the trade card!

 

If not just search Goodyear 8mm on eBay

[Toad 0]

make sure you get the high quality stuff with the 'ribbed' finish as this will last longer and bend better

 

O RLY?

[aclwalker 3]

Right, I fitted my new hoses today. I'll do a write-up tomorrow, after I've taken some pictures. I forgot my camera today so unfortunately couldn't take photos during the job, but photos of after the job will do.

 

I went to another Halfords after the email I got saying that they do stock fuel injection hose. They sell it pre-packaged (shrink wrapped), in 1m lengths and it includes 2 clips. The clips are stamped "Norma" and "13", presumably for 13mm. I felt these were a little tight for the hose to be honest, but with some fiddling around they work fine.

 

The hose is actually 7.6mm internal diameter (ID). Since they are prepackaged in 1m lengths, unfortunately you get a bit of wastage as you need about 60cm for the hoses, which leaves you an unusable 40cm. But perhaps it might be useful for another car or some other purpose. It might be possible to buy it just off the reel, but I didn't ask. I was just pleased to get it.

 

It comes on a black card, with "Fuel Injection Hose with Clips" written on it and "7.6MM DIA" and "1 Metre Length" written on it too. On the back of it, the sticker says it's Halfords part number "HFH503", made in Denmark. They cost £6.99, but this includes the 2 clips, so a total cost of £13.98 to do both hoses. Compare this with circa £70 from VW plus cost of clips. As I already said, the clips are "Norma" and 13mm.

 

The hose looks very sturdy and was surprisingly easy to work into the shape of the moulded hoses that I replaced it with. I'll provide more detail in a write-up tomorrow, but the clips holding the moulded hose in place hold this replacement hose in place very well.

 

Again, more details tomorrow, but a basic outline of the job is this:

 

1 Depressurise fuel system by removing the fuel pump relay (mine is stamped "109" upside down on the fuse and relay panel). Attempt to start the car, to lower the fuel pressure as much as possible.

2 Remove air box, MAF, air intake (right up to throttle body), PCV, to provide access to the 'tank' end of the rubber hoses.

3 The top hose is the feed, the bottom the return. Both are attached to plastic lines coming from the tank, and attached to the strut tunnel, right underneath/in front of the master brake cylinder. Undo the velcro to access these. The plastic line for the return is blue and is underneath the feed line. DON'T MIX THESE UP ON REASSEMBLY.

4 Starting with the top hose, undo the clip at the fuel rail end. You may have spring-loaded clips, one-shot or possibly jubilee like mine if a repair has been done in the past whereby the end has been cut to solve a leak.

5 Using a cloth to catch spills, with a jar or tub at the ready to catch overflow and shielding your eyes (the residual pressure is still enough to cause petrol to spray out), carefully twist the hose to break the seal and then slowly pull off the rail. There will likely be some spillage. Try to manipulate the hose to get the petrol to come out into your jar/tub.

6 Unclip the hose out of the plastic clips. If they break, do not discard as they will still hold. It will just be the hinge that is broken.

7 Again using a cloth to catch spillages, do the same at the other end. This end is likely to have a one-shot clip if it has never been off, like mine (my hoses were originals, made in 1993 (car is 1994)). Take great care not to break the plastic line as this will be a nightmare to replace I would imagine.

8 Repeat steps 4-7 for the return hose.

9 You may get petrol gurgling out of the fuel rail as you remove these hoses, sometimes squirting. Have plenty of cloths to catch these spillages and to avoid spraying in your eyes.

10 Now you are ready to fit the new hoses.

11 Starting with the return line, and with the new clip in place near the end of the hose, carefully attach the hose to the plastic line, pushing it on up to the end of the clean section where the old pipe would be. Dipping the hose in the petrol you caught earlier immediately before sliding it on will make it much easier to position on the plastic line. Adjust the clip for sensible tightening access later. The plastic lines are lined with metal so you can afford to tighten up reasonably well. Position the line back in place.

12 Feed the hose through all the clips, trying to minimise stress. You will find that it very neatly follows the path of the original hose, just with slightly wider turns than the moulded original.

13 Cut the excess hose off, taking into account the final bend before attaching to the fuel rail (i.e. don't just line it up straight and cut as you will likely make it a bit short).

14 Again, dip the hose in the salvaged petrol to aid it sliding on the fuel rail. Make sure you put it on the return line (bottom) and that you put the clip on the hose before doing this. Tighten clip up.

15 Repeat steps 11-14 for the feed line (top hose).

16 Before refitting the air intake system, refit the fuel pump relay and turn on the igniton (DO NOT START THE CAR), to repressurise the fuel system. Check carefully for leaks. Tighten clips as necessary.

17 Before refitting the air intake system, clean out any oil residue from the throttle body. Get someone to open the throttle (or gently push with fingers and clean as much gunk and oil off as you can. Carb cleaner can be good for this. This will make acceleration and run-on a good bit smoother.

18 Refit the air intake system, taking care to tighten up all clips. I also noted some oil leakage where my new PCV (see other threads) joined the rest of the breather hose. This does not appear to have a clip normally, but I guess it's been loosened off with the removal of the previous one, so I fitted a clip here and gently tightened, taking care not to crush the plastic. This was perhaps still letting in a small amount of air.

19 Go for a test drive, with the blowers on FULL, so that you can smell any petrol leaks fast!

 

I found my car was again a bit smoother. My car is really running like new now with all I've replaced recently (not bad for 203k miles). My old fuel hoses were quite badly perished and I wonder if they were bulging slightly like old brake hoses do. Perhaps the new hoses have made the fuel pressure even more stable (I fitted a new FPR a wee while ago).

 

I would encourage any competent home mechanic who suspects they have original hoses to do this job. It's cheap, technically easy (just take care with pressurised petrol) and takes about an hour if taking your time. Our cars are getting to the age where all rubber is perished.

 

I'll write this up again tomorrow with some pictures, but I notice I've more or less written it totally up already!

[aclwalker 3]

Right, here's some photos to go with the write-up above.

 

First up is the state of my old hoses:

passat climatronic wiring diags.pdfOld hose.JPG[/attachment:35lglsxk]

 

See the split in the rubber? You can actually see the fabric layer underneath. This is one of the moulded corners that I've straightened out. Petrol wasn't leaking from here. It was only leaking from where it joins the fuel rail. The ends were starting to split. I sometimes think that these moulded hoses with their sharp turns are under more stress than straight hose that you've approximated to go round corners. My hoses seemed to date from 1993, which would make them original (car is 1994). I would suggest that this repair would be wise for most people if they have original hoses, as they are likely perished like this and you don't want petrol at 4 bar pressure spraying all over your hot engine. This is a very cheap and relatively easy repair (if you don't buy the VW parts!).

 

Next, is a picture of what you need to buy in Halfords. Don't accept "We don't stock it.", as they do, and I even got this confirmed from head office when I was told they don't do it any more in branch. You need to buy two of these, as you need around 60cm per hose. They are £6.99 each and include 2 clips each, so nothing else is required.

climatronic wiring-Golf from May 01.pdfHosePackaging.JPG[/attachment:35lglsxk]

 

Next up are two photos showing it fitted.

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfHose fitted1.JPG[/attachment:35lglsxk]

Hose fitted2.JPG[/attachment:35lglsxk]

 

The first photo shows the hoses and how they connect to fuel rail, with the clips supplied with the kit. Note the plastic clips that hold on the original hose. These quite nicely shape the new hose into approximately the same shape as the moulded hoses, but with less sharp turns. Even if these clips break off, they still work as they are 'latched' on both sides. It's usually just the hinge that breaks off, but don't worry, they still hold fine. Ignore my oil leak from the rocker cover gasket.

 

The bottom hose is the return to tank line. Make sure this attaches to the blue line under the airbox. It's easy to remember. Top goes to top, bottom to bottom.

 

The second photo shows the other end of the hoses (sort of). You obviously remove all of the airbox stuff for access and the end of the hoses is under a velcro-attached flap. Pressurise the system by re-fitting the fuel pump relay and turning the electrics on to check for leaks, before refitting all the airbox stuff. Obviously don't start the car without the air system attached.

 

Hope the pictures help.

[fla 9]

this is really bugging me - i've replaced the fuel lines to the fuel rail and used new clips (not jubilees) but the feed line STILL drips for a while when the car is cold for a while. I've tried loosening the clips just in case they are deforming the pipes but that has not helped. Any suggestions?

[aclwalker 3]

this is really bugging me - i've replaced the fuel lines to the fuel rail and used new clips (not jubilees) but the feed line STILL drips for a while when the car is cold for a while. I've tried loosening the clips just in case they are deforming the pipes but that has not helped. Any suggestions?

Hmmm, it's unusual for iut to leak when cold.

 

If you've got new hose, and used proper fuel hose clips rather than jubilees then all I can think of is corrosion in the fuel rail.

 

Did you definately use fuel injection hose, rather than 'standard' hose? Fuel injection systems are pressurised rather than gravity fed like carb system are.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that the VR6 (I'm assuming you're talking about VR6 here) is about 1 bar higher in pressure than most cars, if I remember correctly.

 

Check for corrosion in the fuel rail and also for nicks in the hose and also grit particles which may be preventing a good seal around the hose.

[fla 9]

grit particles - good idea. Hose should be fine, no nicks, but just in case i'm going to cut off 1cm from the end.