Alonsos tactics - legal but not exactly sporting

[Taggart 0]

Sorry, don't have the handbook here ATM.

 

You think they are just making up rules, and handing out punishment willy nilly?

[Andy665 0]

The two penalties were for different offences:

 

Bumping Alonso down the grid was due to Alonso impeding a competitor - I believe the FIA have got it absolutely right as there should be no distinction between impeding a competitor from a rival team and a competitor within your own team

 

The loss of Constructers Championship points was due to McLaren bringing the sport into disrepute by their handling of the situation immediately post qualifying, I believe the FIA intimated that comments were made that were later found to be factually incorrect

[corozin 0]

In the good old days what Alonso did would have just been put down to good old fashioned gamesmanship. It's up to the other driver to find a (safe) way to get him back. Unfortunately Formula One these days is run by lawyers, and has no humour anymore. In the old days Hamilton would just have braked tested Alonso at the next opportunity.

 

I stand by what I said earlier though. Aloso is showing real signs of duress under pressure. It's not just the trouble he's kicking up with Hamilton, his season long spat with Phillipe Massa is starting to look quite nasty. I can see the two of them taking each other out in a really big way before the end of the season.

 

It's the same with the current row over MacLaren obtaining Ferrari's technical information. In my opinion the perfect penalty for that would have been to allow the Ferrari design team a day's unrestricted access to MacLaren's technical data, but I guess the Lawyers don't think in terms of penalties with a bit of wit attached to it.

[jenks 0]

What did alonso do not seen this?

 

 

Yeah gutted i missed this! What actually happened? Any links to the you tube video? My mate was out there in Hungary and going on and on about it and i dont have a bloody clue! :( Was working!

[nocrap 0]

Basically...... Alonso pitted at around 2mins of the qualifying remaining, Hamilton the pitted and waited behind......the engineer lifted the lollypop at about 1.40 but Alonso just sat there (excuse was that he was listening to the countdown from another team engineer in his ear piece) clock rolled down to about 1.25 and with normal race laps being done at around 1.20 Hamilton then didn't have enough time to get round the track to do his final qualifying lap!!

[jenks 0]

b@stard! Saw the highlights last night, F1 has just got exciting! (finally) Cant believe im looking forward to next race :lol:

[corrado9a 0]

How come no one has brought up the fact that Hamilton disobeyed Team orders a few times when he was ordered to let Alosno passed during qualifying as it was its turn tu do te final lap as agreed before qualification started. when he positioned himself before Alenos he was told over the radio to let Alonso pass and did not listen to it.

Then when Alosno stayed longer in the pits he was following team instructions, to have the chance previously agreed. He was follwing team instructions.

then he gets pusnished.

Alson there is no written article in the norms that states how long you can you stay in the pits. moreover from hamilstons response it is understood that it is a normal happening staying a liitle longer during qualifications to avoid traffic in the fast lap. The only difference is that he was waitting.

 

So should Alnso had pulled out disobeying team orders just to let Hamilton take another lap when he agreed not to in advance?

 

this is how the story is told over here in Spain.

[dukest 0]

How come no one has brought up the fact that Hamilton disobeyed Team orders a few times when he was ordered to let Alosno passed during qualifying as it was its turn tu do te final lap as agreed before qualification started. when he positioned himself before Alenos he was told over the radio to let Alonso pass and did not listen to it.

Then when Alosno stayed longer in the pits he was following team instructions, to have the chance previously agreed. He was follwing team instructions.

then he gets pusnished.

Alson there is no written article in the norms that states how long you can you stay in the pits. moreover from hamilstons response it is understood that it is a normal happening staying a liitle longer during qualifications to avoid traffic in the fast lap. The only difference is that he was waitting.

 

So should Alnso had pulled out disobeying team orders just to let Hamilton take another lap when he agreed not to in advance?

 

this is how the story is told over here in Spain.

 

corrado9a, you're right, no one is talking about hamilton ignoring the team orders earlier although, as I didn't see it, I don't know what effect, if any, that had on Alonso. I think that you probably have a point because reading between the lines it seems that Hamilton had some explaining to do to Ron Dennis - he was talking about having cleared the air over a "small" issue so he's probably not totally blameless..

 

However, obviously the majority of us are all supporting Hamilton :) and so, where Alonso is punished for something and Hamilton is not, then most of us will not study it too closely and just be pleased that our driver "seems" to be the one in the right! There's still 6 races left and hopefully the best man will win in the end ;)

[Son of a Beesting 0]

This thread reminds me of the conversation in my house (my wife is from Madrid). I think both countries media has taken 'their' drivers side.

 

But the fact remains that disobeying team orders is not against the rules if it doesn not directly relate to the race. The stewards must have deemed Alonsos move to be illegal (although I am not 100% up on f1 rules), I suppose its like a slower driver ignoring the blue flags more than twice, a purposeful act to slow a rival driver. What if Massa had got in Hamilitons way and helped Raikkonen (spelling) to get by?

 

I think Alonso is a good driver BUT he blames everyone else for the problems, he has the same car as Lewis, if he wants to be seen as the number 1 driver he needs to up his game. Beat Lewis and he will get the glory. He is a twice world champion I would hope he could raise to the challenge. He had a better chance of winning than Lewis being in for a number of years.

 

Am I happy Lewis is winning OF COURSE!! This has been a better season than I can remember for a long time, its what F1 needs.

[Wendy 0]

What an exciting F1 season !!

 

Damon Hill summoned it up;-'We will be bringing a naughty chair to F1 next.'

 

This should have been sorted out by McLaren, not the Stewards.

 

As for not allowing McLaren to collect the Constructors Cup on the Podium - we really are getting childish.

 

Not too much talk going on about how well the BMW team are doing this season.

 

Decided also, I need to call Flavio - (Renault), he really should sign Button next year .

 

Nothing now for 3 weeks - good job I will be sailing. :D

[corozin 0]

It gets more fun : read this

"Alonso can leave MacLaren if he wants to" says Ron Dennis

http://sport.independent.co.uk/motor_ra ... 841303.ece

 

p.s. Since you mentioned it Wendy, I was impressed that Heidfeld put one over on Rosberg last weekend. I'm starting to think that Rosberg may not have quite the talent quota of his famous father.

[Critical_Mass 10]

Am I happy Lewis is winning OF COURSE!! This has been a better season than I can remember for a long time, its what F1 needs.

 

EXACTLY!!! I used to watch F1 religiously when i was younger, stopped watching it around 2001 and have only just got back to watching it regularly. It just got boring and now Hamilton has stirred things up again. I would have hoped Alonso being more experienced would just get on with things and stop *appearing* to be so petty/envious. Though if it keeps F1 alive then so let it.

 

I dont know about any of you guys but it was a bit of a nail biter towards the end of the hungarian race - very exciting.

 

GO LEWIS!!!!

 

Roll on Turkey!

[Son of a Beesting 0]

Decided also, I need to call Flavio - (Renault), he really should sign Button next year .

 

 

Button signed AGAIN for Honda next year, i think its more about money than a being in a competetive car. He is among the fourth highest paid guys in f1.Maybe next year they will be able to get in the upper section of the gird.

 

Flavio will be keen to get Alonso back if he can.

[Critical_Mass 10]

I can see Hamilton staying at Mclaren for his whole career, though not to say circumstances wont change. So saying Alonso leaves Mclaren, who you think will replace him?

[rado-steve 0]

I Think It's Great! Reminds me of Senna and Prost in the 1990 F1 Season! Where Senna Delibratley drove Prost off the Road to Win the Drivers Title!!!

 

Watch this fight between Senna and Mansell:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIrRLCgK ... ed&search=

 

God F1 used to be good! They actually did overtake each other, Mansell and Senna wheel to wheel! Amazing Stuff!

[Jay2 0]

Now Hamilton's arrived it should be "Jenson Button who?"

 

He's had numerous chances to change teams and drive in a more competitive car but has stuck with Honda, is this loyalty to the team or because of the huuuuuuuge wages they pay him? :?

[corozin 0]

I Think It's Great! Reminds me of Senna and Prost in the 1990 F1 Season! Where Senna Delibratley drove Prost off the Road to Win the Drivers Title!!!

 

Watch this fight between Senna and Mansell:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIrRLCgK ... ed&search=

 

God F1 used to be good! They actually did overtake each other, Mansell and Senna wheel to wheel! Amazing Stuff!

 

Don't forget that the following season Prost stitched up the title in Japan by punting Senna at exactly the same chicane as thier collision in 1990 and going on to collect the points he needed after Senna retired. Like I said before, retribution with a bit of wit attached is great fun.

[skinnyman9000 0]

It would seem i am the first to bring this up, but did anyone see the nonsense with Massa's blue flags? He was pulling away from Hamilton and Raikonnen and yet still got 2 blue flags!!!

 

On a further note, any more news on VW joinin F1?

[Critical_Mass 10]

It would seem i am the first to bring this up, but did anyone see the nonsense with Massa's blue flags? He was pulling away from Hamilton and Raikonnen and yet still got 2 blue flags!!!

 

On a further note, any more news on VW joinin F1?

 

I think it was a case of he wasnt pulling away that quickly, a tenth or two a lap. I dont think he REALLY lost out in anyway by moving over anyway. 14th place in the last 10-15 laps of a race, i dont think there was much hope. In regards to the championship, I think Massa is well out of the running. I wouldnt be suprised if Raikennon overtakes Alonso in points.

 

That would be cool if VW joined F1, always pondered why they never have. It would be cool. 8)

[skinnyman9000 0]

It would seem i am the first to bring this up, but did anyone see the nonsense with Massa's blue flags? He was pulling away from Hamilton and Raikonnen and yet still got 2 blue flags!!!

 

On a further note, any more news on VW joinin F1?

 

I think it was a case of he wasnt pulling away that quickly, a tenth or two a lap. I dont think he REALLY lost out in anyway by moving over anyway. 14th place in the last 10-15 laps of a race, i dont think there was much hope. In regards to the championship, I think Massa is well out of the running. I wouldnt be suprised if Raikennon overtakes Alonso in points.

 

That would be cool if VW joined F1, always pondered why they never have. It would be cool. 8)

 

I heard last year a rumour that they were looking at it. I dont see why they cant, with the resources they have to pull together. Porsche cup, VW cup Seat cup, Audi in Le mans etc etc, surely they could put up a decent fight. They need more constructors anyway, Ferrari now has 3 teams!

[Critical_Mass 10]

I heard last year a rumour that they were looking at it. I dont see why they cant, with the resources they have to pull together. Porsche cup, VW cup Seat cup, Audi in Le mans etc etc, surely they could put up a decent fight. They need more constructors anyway, Ferrari now has 3 teams!

 

I hope so like you say theres the Porsche cup, Seat cup, Audi in Le mans and ex-toca team. They have the money and resources all they need is the will (fingers crossed on that one). Ferrari only supply the engines though, the aero-dynamics, gear boxes (i think) - the drive train in general is the teams own, not Ferraris. The other teams been STR and Spyker, So i dont think it matters TOO much that Ferrari are supplying engines to 2 other teams as those teams arent mid runners never mind front runners. But yeah, more constructors are needed to stop the red mist descending.

[corrado9a 0]

keeping the fire alive.

 

A conversation between hamilton and Dennis has transcended here (Spain) in the news. It goes something like,

(Translated back from the translation)

 

RON: Dont you Fu... do that again to me. (after disobeying team orders)

Ham: Dont you Fu... talk to me like that again.

 

and the outcome is that Alonso gets punished.

[Son of a Beesting 0]

keeping the fire alive.

 

A conversation between hamilton and Dennis has transcended here (Spain) in the news. It goes something like,

(Translated back from the translation)

 

RON: Dont you Fu... do that again to me. (after disobeying team orders)

Ham: Dont you Fu... talk to me like that again.

 

and the outcome is that Alonso gets punished.

 

It was actually after the blocking movethat he said that. The spanish media take Alonso side, the British are on Hamilitons side.

 

Putting this aside, let the speed and composure of the dirvers do the talking. Under pressure you sure your true colours, not saying Hamilton is 100% innocent but Alonso hasnt covered himself in glory. And for his Mclaren bashing he needs to look at Mclarens history, Ron dennis has let his drivers race each other, why would he treat these drivers differently. Renault treated him like a God and he had many seasons there, he needs to prove himself again and he is not doing it well. Schumacher took a while to gel with ferrari when he left renault, but he did and he went on well. Senna had issues with Williams. It a new team, he is being a bit childish and he needs to grow up and remember he getting paid WAY WAY WAY more than Lewis so why would they scupper his chances?

 

Said it before, if he wants the glory.......put in the results

[Critical_Mass 10]

Just because Hamilton didnt move over to let Alonso through, i cant see how Alonso justify holding Hamilton up in the pits. Am i right in thinking there was some sort of gap between Hamilton and Alonso when Hamilton was told to move over? He didnt hold him up thus nothing illegal - unlike Alonso and the pits incident. I hate to appear biased, but Alonso has had an atiitude towards the team mate situation since the beginning of the season, it wouldnt suprise me if Alonso held Hamilton up on purpose. It would be good to hear the radio messages though.

 

 

Lets not forget Lewis is probably the first of many. He was looked after by Mclaren through is kart years all the way up to his F1 career. But id hope that Ron wouldnt favour him due to that very reason. I say if Alonso has a problem with Lewis' success, then do something about it on the track in a sportsmanship fashion.

[Yandards 0]

keeping the fire alive.

 

A conversation between hamilton and Dennis has transcended here (Spain) in the news. It goes something like,

(Translated back from the translation)

 

RON: Dont you Fu... do that again to me. (after disobeying team orders)

Ham: Dont you Fu... talk to me like that again.

 

and the outcome is that Alonso gets punished.

 

Aside from various national interests and 'who did what first' the outcome is that the race stewards made the decision to drop Alonso back 5 places down the grid. For them to do that they must have very good evidence or it would be difficult to make it stick. If Alonso was listening to someone on the radio then why are Mclaren not fighting the stewards decision?

 

As for the radio conversation between Ron Dennis and Lewis Hamilton it was in the media over here the day after the race, again I bet this is not the first time that drivers have sworn over the radio, it just happens to have more interest this time around.