3.6 Passat/touareg motor into 92 SLC

[redsamuraidragon 0]

My rado's motor just took a dump im pretty sure of it.

I was looking into putting a 3.6 in to replace it.

I havnt seen any confirmed reports of this, or any pictures yet.

I think its possible since the r32 fits in..

also....

Is it really worth putting the r32 over the vr6 into my rado if the 3.6 idea isnt feasable...

 

looking for a modest 400 hp to the wheels in my rado after this rebuild...

 

I was wanting a Naturally aspirated engine...

 

I dont even know if thats possible on the vr6...

[dukest 0]

i've heard a certain someone did some looking into whether the 3.6 would fit into the rado but it wasn't really a goer..

 

r32 is much more possible, don't know if you'll get 400 N/A hp out of it though?

[KADVR6 0]

yeh someone on here was looking into it, but the r36 engine sits alot higher then the r32 lump, so you would possibly have to modify the bonnet. then there is the issue of many r36 lumps just seezing up due to oil preassure related symptons. so throw an r32 in, get some standalone engine managment. and hey presto easilly 300bhp 8) then if you get bored?? turbo it, 550bhp should keep ya happy????

[Furkz 0]

400bhp = 16vT or VR6T

[Toad 0]

This is what I've been told, by someone on here...

 

The engine *should* fit, but the problem is the engine management, I've been led to believe that as it uses FSi with 100Bar + fuel pressure, you need amplifiers supplying 100ishV to operate the injectors, in a similar style to modern direct injection deisels. There are no standalone engine management systems currenty with the capability to run these injectors. So, you either need to use the passat/toureg ecu, clocks, ignition, keys and 10 lambdas!!! etc or spend muchos dollars on getting engine management custom built.

 

Storm developements are supposed to be trying to fit an R36 to a mk4. How well they will do this is anyones guess. Personally, I'd rather stick a cactus up my bum than give them my R32 and tens of thousands of pounds.

[junkie 0]

Having not been in either a VR6 or R32 i dont know how true my comment is but i have heard the R32 engine does below 4000rpm what the VR6 does above 4000rpm, then after that its even more.

 

Maybe it canbe done with the R36 but how deep are your pockets?

[StormchargedVR6 0]

would rather go VRT, be lot more fun :)

[redsamuraidragon 0]

Yeah, see thats the whole deal.

My pockets are only so so deep...

 

I know I could rebuild a radical vr6 or put a r32 in.. but the r36 sounds like a piece...

 

After looking into this a little more..

im thinking a vr6 built up might be the way to go...

 

anyone know where I can find decent rebuild parts online?

 

High Compression pistons, performance cam.. performance head... ect..

[craziscot 0]

Storm Developments are offering an R36 conversion now as one of their regular services.

 

They had two brand new R36 lumps waiting to go into cars when I picked mine up, very sweet looking piece of kit!

[Toad 0]

Storm Developments are offering an R36 conversion now as one of their regular services.

 

They had two brand new R36 lumps waiting to go into cars when I picked mine up, very sweet looking piece of kit!

 

I didn't think they had the engine management worked out yet?

[redsamuraidragon 0]

Also, how much should I be expecting to pay for the block of a r32 or r36.

I was thinking of building it from the bottom up, or just buying a used motor out of a wrecked car and rebuilding it...

or maybe just modding the used motor as it sat... just a new top half on it...

I like the idea of having more power in the lower rpms, so im leaning towards a r32 after looking into it a bit more, but the vr6 maybe considerably cheaper to produce more power from. Id just rather have a little low end torque instead of having to rev my motor up everytime I wanted to burn on someone.

[dinkus 10]

Storm Developments are offering an R36 conversion now as one of their regular services.

 

They had two brand new R36 lumps waiting to go into cars when I picked mine up, very sweet looking piece of kit!

 

So I (secretly!) got to the point of actually buying an R36 engine and spent a lot of time researching what needs to be done to get it to fit, including spending a good amount of time talking to Storm.

 

Sadly, the whole project was looking like it was going to cost in the region of £5k to get running and involve a whole world of unknowns. That could have been ok, but you're only realistically looking at 50-80hp more than the Mk4 R32.

 

Differences

Firstly, the new generation VRs are 10.6 degree V, not 15 as per engines of old - this makes the engine slightly longer and taller. They are all (so far) mounted longitudinally in all cars you can buy them in and have slightly different mounting points.

 

Most importantly - the engine runs on FSI which is a direct-injection system similar to that used by diesels.

 

Physically fitting it

You can probably get the engine to physically fit in the car - Storm have had one running in a Mk4, but it will involve custom engine mounts and you are likely to have issues with the additional height of the engine. It looks like you can probably bolt the standard VR or 02M gearbox up to the engine (same stud pattern), but as the engine is a different size, you'll also need custom drive shafts. Similarly, as you're now mounting the engine transverse, you'll definitely need a custom downpipe and ideally manifold too.

 

These problems can probably be overcome. However, the really difficult bit is the engine management. Due to this FSI lark, you have the following options:

 

Run it stock

To do this, you'll need the engine, ECU, loom, clocks, ignition barrell and all 12 or some silly number of lambda probes, including the dual-cat system. Again, as all of the current engines are mounted longitudinally, the exhaust won't fit, so you'll need to modify it, making sure that you maintian all the probes in the right distances along the pipework.

 

Run it on aftermarket management

Nothing currently exists to do this. You need 100V range voltages to operate the high pressure fuel rail, then 100A range current to fire the injectors. Not to mention a completely different set of timings than a traditional manifold injection engine. The Storm boys say they're developing an ECU to do this based on Emerald, but speaking to Dave Walker at Emerald he's not got time to even start on it at any point in the forseeable future. I think Storm have started looking for components to drive the thing, but it's all going to be very experimental and very, very expensive - sounds like in the region of £3k+ for an ECU.

 

Swap the manifold and run it as a conventional injection system on aftermarket management

You can swap in the inlet manifold for a conventional one and the use an aftermarket ECU to run the engine. Problem is - no inlet exists, you'd also need to make/find a fuel rail and also buy an aftermarket ECU. On top of all that, you'd likely get slightly less power out of it, so you'd end up with something that's not much more powerful than a standard R32.

 

So as you can see it's not a very simple or cheap task to undertake at the moment. Having said that, give it a couple of years when someone has devised an after-market ECU to drive FSI (and interestingly the same thing could probably be used to drive an after market TDI) then it'll be a fairly easy task.

 

If you're still game then I've got details of a guy who was selling brand spanking new, never fitted to a car 3.6 engines from a Touareg (BHK engine code) for £1500 but they are just the basic engine, so no alternator, PAS pump, exhaust manifold, etc...

[Yandards 0]

Making up an inlet manifold to run standard aftermarket is not too much work as long as you can find something with the correct type of runners into the cylinder head, you just need to cut those off and get them welded up to make what you want.

[double-6s 0]

If it's gonna be that much hassle you might as well just stick an Alfa 3.2 in there mate. Probably the same amount of work.

 

Then you can do a 3.8 conversion (non-solid block) on it for a nice 330 or so horses, then charge it for the full 400! :)

 

I'm a huge fan of the VR engine, but I personally think the Alfa lump is in a different league (cue abuse!) :)

[g60bv 0]

well hay why not a mustang v8 s/charged.

 

 

 

or just go with a vr6 t or a 16vt. plenty of kits now avalible. check out germany for 16vt bits and usa for vr6t bits.

[Yandards 0]

If it's gonna be that much hassle you might as well just stick an Alfa 3.2 in there mate. Probably the same amount of work.

 

Then you can do a 3.8 conversion (non-solid block) on it for a nice 330 or so horses, then charge it for the full 400! :)

 

I'm a huge fan of the VR engine, but I personally think the Alfa lump is in a different league (cue abuse!) :)

 

Yeah the Alfas are even less reliable!!

[double-6s 0]

If it's gonna be that much hassle you might as well just stick an Alfa 3.2 in there mate. Probably the same amount of work.

 

Then you can do a 3.8 conversion (non-solid block) on it for a nice 330 or so horses, then charge it for the full 400! :)

 

I'm a huge fan of the VR engine, but I personally think the Alfa lump is in a different league (cue abuse!) :)

 

Yeah the Alfas are even less reliable!!

 

 

Not so actually dude. The Alfa V6 is very strong and very reliable according to what i've seen/read/heard.

 

It's the rest of the car that falls apart :)

[potatonet 0]

AW heck just put a W8 in and bi-turbo it, now thats a motor.

[Yandards 0]

If it's gonna be that much hassle you might as well just stick an Alfa 3.2 in there mate. Probably the same amount of work.

 

Then you can do a 3.8 conversion (non-solid block) on it for a nice 330 or so horses, then charge it for the full 400! :)

 

I'm a huge fan of the VR engine, but I personally think the Alfa lump is in a different league (cue abuse!) :)

 

Yeah the Alfas are even less reliable!!

 

 

Not so actually dude. The Alfa V6 is very strong and very reliable according to what i've seen/read/heard.

 

It's the rest of the car that falls apart :)[/quote:15de9]

 

I thank you for rising to the bait ;) :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Personally, I'd rather stick a cactus up my bum than give them my R32 and tens of thousands of pounds.

 

:lol:

 

I love one liners like that 8)

 

This R36 mallarky then.... I think Dinkus's excellent post just about covers it, nearly all of which I didn't know, so you learn something new every day! As they say, if there is any doubt, there is no doubt.

 

Personally speaking, as clever as the FSI system is, I would not want 100 Amp/ 100 Volt / 100 bar (1450psi!!) electrics & fuel pressure retro fitted into my car! It's a disaster waiting to happen unless you can fit it to exactly the same standards as VW did at the factory, and with all the requisite fire precautions.

 

I would expect there to be a weight penalty over the 12V and R32 with the R36 too as VW still haven't got round to producing a magnesium alloy block for the VR6, something BMW have been doing for while now.

 

Nope, it makes better sense physically, dynamically and financially to mod the engine the car came with.....a turbo on the 12V with modest boost effectively gives you the torque you would get from a half decent V8, but without the weight and packaging penalties.

 

Makes sense to me :lol:

 

But no conversion or the addition of a turbo/super is without it's problems....

[dinkus 10]

It's also worth noting that the new R32 engines in the Mk5s also use the same engine, albeit with a smaller bore. Which means no dice if you're trying to do a quick swap with one of them either.

 

If you were going to get silly power out of the R36 then it'd be worth it, but at best you're talking 50bhp more, at worst it'll be the same kind of power.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If you could pull it off, the potential is huge. 3.6 litres + a GT4094 turbo would be a quick spooling, insane, 700+hp leviathan. You'd have to convert it to standard injection and intake though....which you might be able to do by putting the non direct injection R32 head from the MK5 on the R36 block?

[dinkus 10]

If you could pull it off, the potential is huge. 3.6 litres + a GT4094 turbo would be a quick spooling, insane, 700+hp leviathan. You'd have to convert it to standard injection and intake though....which you might be able to do by putting the non direct injection R32 head from the MK5 on the R36 block?

 

I think that's the problem - the new R32s are FSI too, so you're buggered either way. From looking at the ETKA diagrams (not the most accurate reference it has to be said), certainly the exhaust manifold for the R36 is considerably bigger than the 3.2, so I'm not sure how much different the inlet is.

 

Somewhat irrelevant though really as I'm fairly sure it's FSI.

 

And yeah, 700+hp would be pretty mad, but er why bother in a FWD car? It'd be undrivable.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Who said anything about FWD? The rear seats don't get used much, so...... :lol:

[CTWG60 0]

Who said anything about FWD? The rear seats don't get used much, so...... :lol:

 

 

Mechano has a lot to answer for the mental health of certain individuals of today's society!!! :lol: