170K good SH No timing belt/head overhaul good or bad?

[snattrass 0]

If a high mileage (170k +) VR6 car (or any rado variant for that matter) with a good service history has not had the timing belt replaced or head gasket done or engine reconditioned is that a good thing or not? The reason I ask is because I'm looking at a VR6 that has a good SH with 170K but no evidence of timing belt being changed. Surely, that kind of work is recommended at say 60k or something?

 

 

On the one hand it feels like there's some reassurance that if these things have been done there's new components in there that are gonna last longer with generally speaking better longer lasting engine performance with less chance of having to shell out to have that work done in the near future.

 

 

On the other hand, I'm wondering why certain high mileage engines have had to have this work done and others have not - is this a reflection of how well the engine / car has been treated and driven? I mean if the high mileage engine has not been thrashed and generally treated with regular care and attention with higher quality oil etc does that mean that engine wear and therefore engine overhaul/work is less likely ?

 

 

Or would it not make any difference - is it just as possible that a high mileage car cautiously driven by a little old lady for all of it's life with no TLC spared is just as likely to need this kind of work done at sometime?

 

 

Cheers, SN

[dukest 0]

VRs have timing chains which are longer lasting than belts but their tensioners normally begin to fail somewhere over 100k miles. I've never heard anyone on here blow up their engine through chain or tensioner failure but leaving it beyond 150k means you're probably on borrowed time. If the job needs doing there will be an audible rattle in the engine bay.

There is plenty of discussion on here about it but its a £750 job combined with replacing the clutch which you would do at the same time.

[dr_mat 0]

Plenty of discussions already about this.

 

Any car over 100k miles must be judged on condition and performance alone, IMHO. It doesn't matter one jot what "hasn't been done", as long as the car is working well, right?

[davidwort 0]

That age and mileage I'd be looking for a metre high bale of paperwork and receipts, FSH isn't important, that just shows the oil has been changed.

[Jim Bowen 1]

i'm on 150,000 and had no overhaul done to engine, nor the tensioners done

 

i think a lot of it depends how picky you are, mine does sound a little noisy sometimes, but seems to drive ok, could be better but not going to spend out on all that just yet.

 

would rather wait and get the whole lot done, or an engine conversion, when it starts driving badly

 

all old big engines from the 90's seem rattly to me, they just not the same as more modern ones

[snattrass 0]

Are the 16v KR 1.8 engines regarded as more robust and hardy than the big VR's?

[Rpmayne 0]

I say it depends how much the car is selling for.. I'd say its on borrowed time, and when anything does need doing its bloody expensive. I personally wish I had spend a few more grand initially a got myself a mint one rather than getting a pretty good one and thinking I could fix things for cheap. No mk2 running costs for a VR, think more Porsche.

[dr_mat 0]

If you want cheap and reliable, you want the 2.0 8v. The others all have too many valves, and too many chains/belts/extras and get thrashed too hard to be reliable long term.

A mint VR6 with 70k on it has around equal probability of needing engine work as a tatty one with 170k. There are no hard and fast rules. Just be careful when you check it over and make sure that you don't have *immediate* work requirements on it.

[snattrass 0]

"tensioners normally begin to fail somewhere over 100k miles".

 

 

So that means if hasn't been done the engine could sound ok when buying the car but within a short time, after buying it, it could start to rattle which is dig deep time for timing chain replacement.

 

 

So on these basis's I'm concluding that the chain necessarily should have been replaced sometime before 100k. If it hasn't it sounds like someone has been adopting a reactive rather than proactive approach to their cars mechanical maintenance. Not only that but surely VW recommends it at a certain mileage as part of their items that should be done at certain service intervals.

 

 

I'm still confused as to why some would go earler than others unless it's more just precautionary that people replace them as a preventative measure as I say.

 

 

S

[dukest 0]

Well, when i said normally, thats not to say it happens for definite but thats when people that it happens to normally experience it.

 

A fastidious owner who's not hard up would think to get them done anywhere from 100k onwards as a preventative measure if they know they're keeping the car for a while. BUT, it is still a £750+ job and so most people (probably like your seller) will just wait till they begin to hear something is wrong and maybe start saving then.

 

If you're not sure what you're listening for then theres a thread where people with good knowledge offer to go see cars for or with you - hopefully someone near could help you out with your assessment of it?

 

I wouldn't worry too much that the chains aren't done by that mileage if the car looks straight, just be aware that it could need it sometime soon and that you'd want to do it if the clutch failed as the labour is common. At the end of the day, its just a price thing - the market dictates a certain price for a 170k car without the chains done. Even if the car doesn't cost you a penny in repairs for years, you dont want to have paid more for it than the next man would have done.

[Toad 0]

AFAIK, as a VR owner of a couple of months...

 

The chains and tensioners are a slight lottery. If the car has been loved, then they are likely to last longer. Some cars might do 200k on the originals, others will not see 100k. Mine rattle lots at 137k, with fvwsh to 2 years ago, I'm not in a huge rush to change it, I'll inspect them for serious flaws, but otherwise they'll have to keep going for a while.

 

I don't get that wet over service history, someone like me could have owned the car and changed the oil and filters every 3-4k miles and not recorded it. Someone who went to vw for servicing, could have ragged the tits off the car everytime they drove it from cold, and actually done damage to the engine.

 

I'd be happy with the general condition of the car, as long as the oil is clean and there's no obvious problems. After 150k miles the engine has had a reasonable life. It might do another 150k, it might do 150, bit of a gamble really.

 

/Sits on fence

[dr_mat 0]

The fence is the right place to be. I repeat: there are no hard and fast rules.

 

YOU must make your decision based on the condition of the car you are looking at. If necessary inspect the tensioners yourself before committing to the purchase, but you might be walking away from a cracking car if you just assume the worst.

[snattrass 0]

It sounds like from we're saying that it's worthwhile whichever goes first, clutch or chain, to get them both done together, which is a little reassuring. Makes sense. As you say, alot seems to depend on how much TLC the engines had and the driving atittude of the driver(s) throughout it's history.

 

 

One thing that has been afirmed afresh to me is the importance of receipts along aside service history whether done professionally or by the owner.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

If it's got tits or wheels you've got trouble!