Christmas has come early... AP Brakes THEY'RE ON

[JMC 0]

Thought I was getting lucky earlier when 2 pizza box sized packages arrived this morning. Even better than lunch though - my front discs have arrived with all the bits :D :D . Going from the 305mm discs I have at the moment to 315mm, so should be fun once they are bedded in properly, and am going from Brembo pads to Pagid Fast Road's as well. All I need to do now is get them fitted....

[junkie 0]

Nice, should be doing endo's in no time :D

 

Can you get those in 305mm 4 x 100?

 

How much?

[JMC 0]

More than I care to think about to be honest :shock: but they should be able to do 4x100 and 305mm (and 28mm presumably). I got them from BG Developments (as recommended by Kev - cheers for that). You'll need to know the pad swept area (I am assuming they're for Brembos or Porka ones) and they should now have the 4x100 hub dimensions, and Seat disk to work from for the correct disk measurements. Took a while though so I hope you're not in a hurry - been working with them on these for nearly 6 weeks.

[junkie 0]

Yea just a replacement 2 piece disc for the ibiza brembos is all i need.

 

You know who else does them?

 

I know they cost loads around the £5-600 mark, no need to say how much if you dont wanna just a yes around that will do.

[JMC 0]

Er, higher. These were over £700. However, not all the disc sizes are so expensive. These were not a common size so cost slightly more. The 305mm should be a more common size, althought you'll still be looking at atleast £600 I would have thought. Hope that helps.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nice one mate 8)

 

Note the AP grooves face the opposite way to what you might think, but the discs should be handed as you've no doubt discovered on the pizza boxes already ;-)

 

£700 not just for the 315mm rotors I hope? :?

 

The BG Developments bells look as good as they always get them. Can't fault their quality!

 

Another tip when you eventually replace the rotors, replace the little bolts too.

 

Disc prices. I tend to get mine from Circuit Supplies. The 304s I had to start with £250+VAT each, but the 330s I run now are £180+VAT each.....so it would seem 330 is the most common size and therefore the cheapest.....and they're always in stock for next day delivery. You need 17s though :?

[junkie 0]

So do you know if the ibiza caliper will work ok on 330mm disc or would it mean a change to the leon caliper.

[marcus 0]

JMC, They look nice mate. 8)

[JMC 0]

Nice one mate 8)

 

Note the AP grooves face the opposite way to what you might think, but the discs should be handed as you've no doubt discovered on the pizza boxes already ;-)

 

£700 not just for the 315mm rotors I hope? :?

 

The BG Developments bells look as good as they always get them. Can't fault their quality!

 

Another tip when you eventually replace the rotors, replace the little bolts too.

 

Disc prices. I tend to get mine from Circuit Supplies. The 304s I had to start with £250+VAT each, but the 330s I run now are £180+VAT each.....so it would seem 330 is the most common size and therefore the cheapest.....and they're always in stock for next day delivery. You need 17s though :?

 

Yeah, that price was for everything (bells, rotors, and disc bolts) and including some calliper spacers. Rotors were about £220+VAT each I think. Although I've just found out that the new calliper bolts I bought (which are longer as the calliper now sits further out) are normal rather than fine threaded. Doh. Looks like those will be going back. Shame - thought for a minute I was going to get these on today.

 

Had to double check on the grooves as you're right - they are different to expected. Sure I'll get loads of people going "You know you've got those on the wrong way round mate" :lol: And as for replacing them - I'm hoping that never needs doing.... Btw, thanks for all your advice on this Kev.

 

Oh, and Cheers Marcus - looking forward to getting them on the car soon.

[JMC 0]

Turns out that the quest for the right calliper to carrier bolts was slightly harder than expected. M12 normally comes in coarse (1.75 pitch) or fine (1.25 pitch) threads. Typically the Seat Brembo calliper carriers need 1.5 pitch thread. So after a few phone calls I found a company called "Non-Standard Socket Screw Ltd" (I kid you not) who said "Yep we have those, and can get you them in 2 days". Even better they're only 10 miles away from me :D so hopefully pick those up on friday.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, that price was for everything (bells, rotors, and disc bolts) and including some calliper spacers.

 

That's not so bad then :-)

 

Sure I'll get loads of people going "You know you've got those on the wrong way round mate" :lol:

 

I get that all the time mate :lol: When I ask them to explain why they think they're are on the wrong way round, they go strangely quiet, LOL!

[JMC 0]

Yay, they're on....

 

 

 

Well impressed with them - they're huge, and I thought the 305's were big :D :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nice one!

 

I'm starting to warm to MOs again :lol:

[vwdeviant 0]

Yay, they're on....

 

 

 

Damn there's my new favorite Wheel/break set up!

 

Nice one John I really need to have a look round your car at some point!

[JMC 0]

Cheers for the comment guys (and for the help Kev). I think they need bedding in properly now, as I've noticed while they don't seem to be binding, my fuel economy has got appreciably worse than usual on my run to work this morning :shock: . Just wondering if they are that much stickier than my old setup, or if it is just because both the discs and pads are new, and that they need a few hundred miles to form the right surface on the pads.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Does the car free wheel OK and roll forward or back as it should on a slight hill? I've never known calipers of Brembo's calibre to bind, even with snug fitting new pads and discs.....but yours is a bit of a frankenstein setup though :lol: Give it a few hundred miles and see if things improve.

[JMC 0]

I'll check that Kev. I think because the discs are 1mm more than they should be for the callipers the pistons are well in (there was room without shaving the pads, but not huge amounts). Could be that, and as you say it may need a few hundred miles to get a bit of easier movement, and before I can say anything for definite. Will take it out for a good spin at the weekend and see what happens.

[junkie 0]

:nono: You have the discs on the wrong way mate :lol: :thumb right:

[JMC 0]

:nono: You have the discs on the wrong way mate :lol: :thumb right:

 

The garage where I had them fitted took some convincing as well :lol: . I am waiting to hear back from AP as to why they are like this (when their curved vaned ones are facing backwards). Be interested to hear what they say.

[JMC 0]

Found out why the grooves face the opposite way to what you'd think. To do with the vanes inside - by having the grooves face forwards rather than backwards they can minimise the length of the thin section of metal where the groove passes over the vane. Simple really

 

Question for you brake experts. Before fitting them I would get 30mpg on a good run. I now get 27-28mpg on a good run - presume they are binding a little. They have got better and I've done about 250 miles in them since fitting. I presume with it all being a tight fit in the calliper (as the disc is 25.4 rather than 24mm thick) they just need a bit of time to wear the pads down a bit?? I've been keeping and eye on the disc temperature and they not getting too hot - don't really want them warp given what they cost, so is it safe to assume that I just have to suffer a bit of poor fuel economy while they wear down a bit?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Interesting, I never knew that! Does sound like the usual motor industry old flannel though if I'm being honest :-)

 

If you warp those AP discs, you're doing well!

 

I think it could be as you suggest, binding. Have you jacked up the front wheels to see how easy the wheels turn? It could be a coincidental rear brake issue as they have a habit of playing up over winter?

[JMC 0]

Their explanation makes sense from a physics point of view, but it made me smile a bit. Good to hear that'll I'll have to be going some to warp them too.

 

I think it could be as you suggest, binding. Have you jacked up the front wheels to see how easy the wheels turn? It could be a coincidental rear brake issue as they have a habit of playing up over winter?

 

Yeah I was wondering about the rear brakes as I've just had those changed (discs and pads) in the last few weeks as well, so they may need loosening off a little. The previous pads were shot, so they would not be providing any rolling resistance to the rear wheels. With new discs and pads (brembo discs and EBC green pads) they may be providing a little friction if the handbrake cable wasn't adjusted properly.

 

I'm going to lift up the car and have a play with the wheels this weekend Kev, and check out how freely they rotate. It has got better since they were first fitted (just over a week ago), but as I don't do huge mileage in it, I get the feeling it will just take a little time to get back to normal.

[yalan 0]

Turns out that the quest for the right calliper to carrier bolts was slightly harder than expected. M12 normally comes in coarse (1.75 pitch) or fine (1.25 pitch) threads. Typically the Seat Brembo calliper carriers need 1.5 pitch thread. So after a few phone calls I found a company called "Non-Standard Socket Screw Ltd" (I kid you not) who said "Yep we have those, and can get you them in 2 days". Even better they're only 10 miles away from me :D so hopefully pick those up on friday.

 

I trust they're the right bolt type. With caliper bolts its not just the pitch but also the tensile strength which should be right. Can't recall the standard off the top of my head right now.

 

If you find the AP discs are a little too expensive, try ral-des. I used to have Bremsport two-piece discs on my S2. When they wore out, I had to get replacements which were out of stock in the UK so had to buy the AP equivalent instead. Almost twice as much for an identical disc. Fairly sure mine were 305x28 too.

 

25 mm discs should be fine. Did you need to move the pad guides out to give the disc sufficient clearance? Are you sure the caliper is centred centrally over the disc?

As the cheese suggests, jack it up & check it all spins freely. Then whip off the wheel and check everything is centred nicely. Dids the caliper mounts need machining for alignment?

 

New discs and pads IMHO should bed in very quickly and shouldn't affect economy.

[JMC 0]

I trust they're the right bolt type. With caliper bolts its not just the pitch but also the tensile strength which should be right. Can't recall the standard off the top of my head right now.

 

Yep, it took me quite a while to find the right grade in the right pitch. These are 12.9 grade, which are the same as the Seat ones supplied with their Brembo setup.

 

25 mm discs should be fine. Did you need to move the pad guides out to give the disc sufficient clearance? Are you sure the caliper is centred centrally over the disc?

As the cheese suggests, jack it up & check it all spins freely. Then whip off the wheel and check everything is centred nicely. Dids the caliper mounts need machining for alignment?

 

New discs and pads IMHO should bed in very quickly and shouldn't affect economy.

 

Didn't need to remove anything (according to the mechanics who did it anyway). They even rang me up and asked me to go over to the garage to have a look at it, as they were amazed went went on so easily, and that it all lined up (shows how confident they were with my measurements). Didn't need any machining. Must admit I was very please with BG who made the bells. The worked from a Seat disc (which is what I had on there before) and the G60 hub diagram to make the system. The only thing I can think, is that with the discs being slightly wider than they should be (1.4mm extra), is the calliper pistons have been pushed all the way in, and as such don't have much room to move - hence a slight bind all the time as they can't retract, until a little material is worn off the pads. Hopefully get time tomorrow to get it jacked up and have a look.

[yalan 0]

The only thing I can think, is that with the discs being slightly wider than they should be (1.4mm extra), is the calliper pistons have been pushed all the way in, and as such don't have much room to move - hence a slight bind all the time as they can't retract, until a little material is worn off the pads. Hopefully get time tomorrow to get it jacked up and have a look.

 

I'd be surprised if the wider discs were the problem.

The usual conversion with the Audi fraternity is using 996 calipers with audi discs. the calipers are designed to run 28mm thick discs and the Audi discs being used are 30mm. There isn't bags of space spare, but using the disc which is 2mm bigger doesn't cause any problems.

 

However, by putting thicker discs in, some people did need to file down the pad guide pins as shown in the photo below to prevent rubbing against the disc surface. But I would have thought you'd have heard the contact if this were your problem.

 

Spin them wheels to see if anything is binding!

It wouldn't take much - maybe even less than a mm of misalignment for the caliper to be off to one side and be permanantly rubbing on one side of the disc. If this is the case, I'd be very careful of driving it. Constant rubbing would mean lots of heat and the potential for overheating and warping! Not nice on such expensive discs!

 

How much clearance have you got between the caliper and inside of the wheel? Looks close!