engine bay tapping noise - its running now!!

[fla 9]

Basically getting a tapetty-type noise from the bay near to the belt tensioner. sounds really clattery (like a diesel almost) for about 20 minutes or so and then disappears. Oil temp is about 72-74 by then and water also around 75-80. I've recently fitted a mocal and it subsequent to the fitting that i'm getting this noise. Initial thoughts were moisture in the engine but these would have disappeared by now surely? Once it has gone then its quiet for the rest of the day and the next. Leave it for a day and its noisy for the initial period again. What should i look for?

[DanVW 0]

At the risk of a slap :lol: are you sure you have enough oil in the beasty?

 

Fairly sure that pipework and rad are going to require you to put a little extra in

[Toad 0]

Might be a sticky tappet where the engine has been sat for a little while...

[Crasher 3]

Are you sure it isn't just the tank vent valve behind the air cleaner?

[dr_mat 0]

Noting that when you fit an oil cooler you've increased the capacity of your oil system, so I hope you topped it up AFTER it reached temperature... (i.e. when the sandwich plate opened and allowed oil to flow into the cooler).

[fla 9]

Thanks guys - i topped up about 1 litre after fitting the cooler which made it go above the max level, although this was before it was run so below operating temp. I'll recheck it again to see if it needs more oil. Once oil is in te cooler its basically filled i assume and doesnt run back to the sump when the engine is off?

[dr_mat 0]

Thanks guys - i topped up about 1 litre after fitting the cooler which made it go above the max level, although this was before it was run so below operating temp. I'll recheck it again to see if it needs more oil. Once oil is in te cooler its basically filled i assume and doesnt run back to the sump when the engine is off?

 

I think that's usually the case, yes, so you'll probably need more oil in it!

[fla 9]

Checked it again after pulling into work this morning. Oil temp at 96, water at 100 engine off, the level was slightly above max, although this was almost immediately after turning the engine off. What should the level read when the engine has cooled down, or should i fill until the tapping stops? I'm concerened about causing unnecessary wear in the engine, although if this were to be the case the oil pressure light would come on?

[DanVW 0]

You neet to check the level when the oil is cold, otherwise you wont get a proper reading.

[dr_mat 0]

I've seen engines tapping badly when the oil light hasn't come on yet (it would come on if you corner or something). It almost always goes away when you top it up TO THE LINE.

Whatever you do, don't overfill just because it still taps. If it's still tapping and there's plenty of oil you have something wrong, not a shortage of oil!

[fla 9]

Whats confusing is that is disappears completely when the oil reaches 72-74C.

[dirtytorque 0]

As an alternative earlier last year the bearings in my cambelt tensioner on my g60 collapsed and gave a tapping metal on metal noise.

At first it was intermittent but then it became more frequent.

As soon as I identified where it was coming from I obviously stopped driving it.

 

Have a listen and check that it is not coming from there.

[fla 9]

Changed the oil and filter yesterday oil was a bit black, nothing major. Restarted and still the same sort of noise, so obviously its not a choked filter causing oil starvation. I'm tempted to remove the inlet manifold and rocker cover - looks fairly straightforward, just to remove the leads, cover, about 12 bolts for the manifold and about 4 for the rocker cover. The thing is i dont know what i am looking for. The tapping appears to come from across the top of the engine, suggesting something to do with the cams, but i wouldn't know what to do there. MIght also be the tensioner pulley. My thoughts would be to remove the cover, give things a bit of a clean up and close it up again. I've got the Bentley manual, but any potential pitfalls would be appreciated. BTW, i've got aircon too so the engine bay is even more cramped. I keep thinkig there is some connection with fitting the mocal as it seems too coincidental to have started only after that was installed, although i can think why. As mentioned previously the noise goes completely once the oil temp hits about 70 - 72C, so before the sandwich plate opens to let oil into the cooler. otherwise it sounds almost like a diesel.

[n3p 3]

Don't if this will help, but I usually get a slight tappy noise sometimes when I start the engine. Holding my rpm at around 2.5-3k for a couple of minutes seems to do the trick..

 

good luck

[fla 9]

Took it for a good drive yesterday. There was still a faint tapping even after reaching about 80C. Is there any way of checking the oil pressure externally? How could the installation of the Mocal interfere with the oil flow as there is only one way to fit it (s this is the only change in the engine prior to the tapping )? Even if oil wasnt circulating properly surely when you first start te car there is very little oil by the cams and so this should be present every time the car is started from cold until the oil thins and circulates properly? I'm just thinking aloud, but rather than looking at te symptoms i need to attack the cause, so ideas welcomed.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Try de-tensioning the serpentine belt by screwing an (M8 ??) bolt into the tensioner far enough to slacken it, and then start her up. This will stop all the ancilliaries such as alternator, water pump, tensioner, a/c compressor if fitted and pas pump. There may be a rogue bearing in there somewhere which is rattling when cold and under load.

 

It's easy and worth a try before taking the top off of the engine.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[fla 9]

Seems a good idea thanks for that RB. I've got a replacement tensioner and I've recently replaced the bearing in it so it might be the thing to do.

[Richardshoes 0]

I think your tappets are worn.

[fla 9]

Had to have the car towed to the garage yesterday. They called back today and guess what - chains are broken. :( :( :( :( They dont really know why until everything is taken apart. I guess it'll cost me a fair amount to get it back on the road. Any suggestions, or can anyone point me in the direction of a cost effective alternative? The irony was it had only done 53k, and a lot of that was motorway driving whilst i had it. Any way it ca be claimed under insurance? I'm feelig seriously p###ed off right now.

[Jim 2]

I'm not quite sure I understand how the chains can be broken? How have they made this diagnosis?!

[fla 9]

Well they took the tensioner and rocker cover off and had a look apparently. I'm just off there now to see it for myself. If this is the case,how much should i expect to pay to get it sorted out?

[Jon_vr6 1]

Depends if any damage has been done to the internals of the engine! 53k the chain snaps that cant be right!

[fla 9]

Just been down to the garage and they havent taken the head off. Basically diagnosed by the starter motor turning and no movement of the cams looking through the oil filler cap. Obviosuly something between the starter and the cams has gone and they reckon its the chains. They said that the knocking noise would have been because of the chains. doesnt make much sense to me though. I just reversed teh car out of the parking bay, and wnt about 5 yards down the drive at about 2 mph and it stopped dead. Tried starting it again and there was a whining noise as though there was no cranking of the engine. HAd a look myself through the oil filler cap as someone else cranked it and sure enough the cams were not turning. I guess the rinternals will likely be okay as this didnt happen at a high engine speed but i guess its hard to know until the head comes off. Its at the garage and they're going to remove teh ead tomorrow some time and i'll then have a look. All my typos - just shows how annoyed iam :mad:

[steve @ 0]

First thing is to remove the inlet manifold and rocker cover then the upper timing chain cover can be removed. This will allow you to inspect the chains. 53k is mega low for the chains to go are you 100% the milage is gen?

[fla 9]

are you 100% the milage is gen?

 

Yes, it only had 2 owners before me and one was a doctor. Also, i've got the old MOTs and service records, plus invoices from VW to confirm. Before buying i spent a while checking these over thoroughly to confim the mileage (I bought it at 47k). Why else would the starter turn over but not the cams? I'm hoping its something lower cost than a rebuild? Would there be any insurance cover on this, as i've never really inspected a policy cover regarding engines?