VR high oil temp and hesitancy??

[Dee-Vub 0]

Hi guys needing a little help.....got another rado 2.9 engine fitted! and its runnign quite nicely, getting a few wee teething probs with it though! Dont think anything too serious but defo needs sorted.

 

First off, does anyone know what VR's oil temp should roughly run at?? I have a feeling i am sitting a bit high! Normal town driving isnt TOO bad! Sits around the 110 degree mark, but i have been keepiung the heaters up full blast!!! But on duellers and motorwas etc, it seems to creep up quite high! 70mph will sit around 116 degrees and around the 80 mark was on 118 and at one point 120...i didnt go anything over that and just kept at 70. I was too scared to go faster than 80 because i just kept thinking the oil temp would keeping creeping higher and higher. And that was the prob with my first rado engine when the bottom end went

 

So what do we think here? duff oil cooler? is a Mocal required?? I dont want to have to go down the route of paying the prices for a mocal!

 

Another wee prob is that it feels quite hesitant in low revs and on half throttle.....sort of stutters a bit.

 

Could that be fuelling issues? remap required??

 

Cheers guys, phil

[vr6storm 0]

around town I get up to 108deg on the oil temp,fast Motorway driving I have seen 124(hot summer's day too) at the most as long as it keeps under 130 degrees you should be ok..........the Corrado VR is notorious for running hot due to the cramped installation in the engine bay............not helped if you have a grille with the top slats covered

[Dee-Vub 0]

Ahh....thing is my last engines bottom end went due to oil starvation or pressure and was about 124....just abit worried o be honest.

 

Is it worth getting the mocal oil cooler to pt mind at ease??

 

And any idea on the hesitancy??

[Neil VR6 0]

A Mocal is a good precaution on any VR, especially in the summer months. Not expensive either in the grand scheme of things. (About 3 tanks of fuel at today's prices! :shock: )

[Jon_vr6 1]

Low temp thermostat also does wonders!!

[antonio_b12 0]

thicker oil is an option too...

 

I would try an oil/filter change first, see how the figures are after that.

[boost monkey 0]

around town I get up to 108deg on the oil temp,fast Motorway driving I have seen 124(hot summer's day too) at the most as long as it keeps under 130 degrees you should be ok..........the Corrado VR is notorious for running hot due to the cramped installation in the engine bay............not helped if you have a grille with the top slats covered

 

Remember that different grade oils will be in different states at those temperatures, so what is a fine oil temp in one car could well be shell melting in another.

 

I'd sh*t a brick if my MAF told me oil temp was 130 deg in any car.

 

2p.

[vr6storm 0]

around town I get up to 108deg on the oil temp,fast Motorway driving I have seen 124(hot summer's day too) at the most as long as it keeps under 130 degrees you should be ok..........the Corrado VR is notorious for running hot due to the cramped installation in the engine bay............not helped if you have a grille with the top slats covered

 

Remember that different grade oils will be in different states at those temperatures, so what is a fine oil temp in one car could well be shell melting in another.

 

I'd sh*t a brick if my MAF told me oil temp was 130 deg in any car.

 

2p.

 

 

best not read the owner's manual then :lol:

[marcus 0]

My standard vr used to be hesitant like you described..result of my injectors being filthy.

[Dee-Vub 0]

Its brand new oil and filter thats in at the mo....so cant be that.

 

I'll give the thermostat a try....and will look out for a 13 row mocal or something.

 

Anybody else any pointers towards the hesitancy? injectors? anything else?

 

Just seems to splutter a bit in low revs and when its past a certain point its perfectly fine

[boost monkey 0]

Carbon build up perhaps, have you tried using intake / carb cleaner on it?

[Dee-Vub 0]

i also thought about carb cleaner, will give that a bash also...cheers :)

[MonkeyVR6 0]

Woop! Woop! I've seen 130 degrees in my Corrado a few times.

[jamminvr6storm 0]

I also used to see high oil temps (120+ at times) which were'nt helped much after fitting a BV head and high lift cams 8)

 

I have a thermo controlled Mocal (13 row) which helped a great deal however I have found a low temp thermostat and fan switch now keeps mine below 110 even when giving it some stick :lol:

 

I got them from Awesome GTI IIRC...

[MonkeyVR6 0]

I also used to see high oil temps (120+ at times) which were'nt helped much after fitting a BV head and high lift cams 8)

 

I have a thermo controlled Mocal (13 row) which helped a great deal however I have found a low temp thermostat and fan switch now keeps mine below 110 even when giving it some stick :lol:

 

I got them from Awesome GTI IIRC...

 

I see that on Awesome GTi they've got the low temp thermostat and fan switch for the Mk3 Golf VR6...would be be ok to use in my Corrado? I know that the Golf is essentially the same engine, but a 2.8, so I wasn't sure.

 

Cheers!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Be careful with the low temp thermostat because the VR6's cold running map doesn't switch off until 70 deg water temp :lol:

 

So if your Neuspeed low sender is opening at 70 deg instead of the normal 80, you may stay in cold running mode for a bit longer than usual....and the blue temp sender has quite a big influence on the overall fuelling ;-)

 

The lower temp rad switch makes sense though, and don't forget the quality "wire up fan speed 3 to a dash switch" mod ;-) An hour with a bit of wire and a switch will do wonders for your summer traffic temps.

 

130 deg oil temp is high, too high. I'm not convinced the VR's oil temp readings are correct tbh and it's been documented that sender readings are actually 10 deg C lower than sump temperature!

 

The top piston ring will see about 160 deg C, as will the oil lubricating it. That heat needs shedding fast! A mocal is wise. It'll certainly add life to the engine imo, because it's funny how the bores 1 and 6 ovalise prematurely.....or is it when some of you are reporting 130 deg MFA readings? Food for thought....

[dr_mat 0]

... bores 1 and 6 ovalise prematurely.....or is it when some of you are reporting 130 deg MFA readings? Food for thought....

 

Could indeed be a contributory factor. But the cause could also be when those pistons are slopping around when the engine is cold cos they plain don't FIT right and you're letting it idle, too!

 

An oil cooler has to be a good idea of course, and no doubt it'll help in some respects, but I dunno whether you'll see much difference in engine wear in your own lifetime (but of course you'll definitely keep your oil in better shape for longer if you do a lot of high speed driving).

 

I have to say I kinda feel like it's "plugging the dam"! :) ; There's plenty of reasons your VR6 will likely cost you a ton of cash, and if you fit an oil cooler there's a slim chance you'll make one or two of them less likely, but there's a strong chance that something else just as expensive will go wrong instead..! :)

[CrazyDave 0]

Think most of what needs saying has already been said, but just a few thoughts....

 

What is your water temperature running at? Obviously the standard oil cooler is using engine water to exchange heat with so if the waters hot the oil will be at least 10-15 degrees above that.

 

For the record, my oil tends to run at 115 to 120 on a really hot summers day, thats running at a good speed on the motorway. Never seen it go above 122. And I tend to watch the MFA on hot days for my own peace of mind.

 

In traffic it doesn't really get that hot, but my fans come in at 90 on full speed, oil tends to sit at about 105-110 (I have a single Spal instead of the VW heavy weight stuff).

 

If you factor into all this that I'm running a turbo with a standard oil cooler, then it looks like you have something amiss with the oil cooler and or stat. Think that would be my first place to look at. 130 is way to high for normal running.

 

I prefer the standard cooler by the way, getting the oil warm from cold as quick as poss is much better for engine wear (the engine water helps to heat it), but it's also true that keeping in below 120 degrees is better for the oil and so better for the engine.

 

Bad low speed running is usally MAF related. Have you had VAG-COM on it lately? Good place to start.

[MonkeyVR6 0]

If you factor into all this that I'm running a turbo with a standard oil cooler, then it looks like you have something amiss with the oil cooler and or stat. Think that would be my first place to look at. 130 is way to high for normal running.

 

I prefer the standard cooler by the way, getting the oil warm from cold as quick as poss is much better for engine wear (the engine water helps to heat it), but it's also true that keeping in below 120 degrees is better for the oil and so better for the engine.

 

Bad low speed running is usally MAF related. Have you had VAG-COM on it lately? Good place to start.

 

Whoops, sorry that was me going off on a tangent/slight thread hi-jack. I get 130 degrees now and again, but only on 130mph >>> 140mph constant Autobahn runs.

[jamminvr6storm 0]

Be careful with the low temp thermostat because the VR6's cold running map doesn't switch off until 70 deg water temp :lol:

 

So if your Neuspeed low sender is opening at 70 deg instead of the normal 80, you may stay in cold running mode for a bit longer than usual....and the blue temp sender has quite a big influence on the overall fuelling ;-)

 

The lower temp rad switch makes sense though, and don't forget the quality "wire up fan speed 3 to a dash switch" mod ;-) An hour with a bit of wire and a switch will do wonders for your summer traffic temps.

 

I have noticed the blowers dont warm up as quick as they used to :lol:

 

Its the lesser of 2 evils really tho as I'd rather have an engine that warms up slightly slower then one that runs over 120 degree oil temps, that said my water temps are over 70 degrees.... at least 95% of the time :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I prefer the standard cooler by the way, getting the oil warm from cold as quick as poss is much better for engine wear (the engine water helps to heat it), but it's also true that keeping in below 120 degrees is better for the oil and so better for the engine.

 

Having a remote oil cooler doesn't change that. The Mocal is in addition to the factory HE, not a replacement. The thermostat in the sandwich plate doesn't open until the oil hits 80 degrees 8)

 

Personally , I wouldn't be happy with over 110 deg oil on a motorway cruise, mainly because I know for a fact the oil in the sump is actually 10 deg hotter than what the MFA thinks it is. It's plain excessive for a car on part throttle with minimal load.

 

It's a 6 cylinder engine with poor cooling around 1 and 6 - and VW used the same the size HE as a 4 pot engine?? Sometimes OEs don't get it right and that is a classic case. Even the 1800 MK1 GTI got a remote cooler, but cost cutting excercises in the late 80s saw the introduction of the Heat Exchanger system.

 

The idea of it is sound. VR water temp is 89 deg on a cruise, and therefore the oil shouldn't be much hotter than that.....but 10 litres of hot water and 6 litres of hot oil just aren't going to 'exchange' their heat effectively with that tiny little HE bolted to the block.

[CrazyDave 0]

Mocal it is then :) must have been another type that I'd seen which actually replaced the water HE. Something to watch out for on lesser coolers

 

As usual Kev, point well made :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No you're right Dave, some people do bin off the factory HE and just fit the Mocal in it's place, which I'd always advised against - unless it's a summer only car!

 

The only thing I'm not sure about with remote coolers is how much of a pressure drop you get, but I've had mine on for 5 years now with no issues so far :-)

[Dee-Vub 0]

This has turned into a really good debate actually.....good for me learning more and more about the VR :D

 

The car is getting vag-commed tonight to see if any fault codes can be brought up. We'll have to see though :?

 

Yeh personally i think 116 deg etc is high when i am doing half throttle motorway driving at 80 etc. Just worries me a little!

 

My water temp is spot on.....it averages between 90-95 no matter what abuse i give it, its just the oil that creeps higher and higher.

 

So the mocal is an addition....NOT a replacement to the OE cooler? Ideally i would like the oil temp to sit between 90-110 deg.....seems to be the optimum and gives the best feel when driving.

 

Will the mocal keep the oil temp to within this sort of region?? or colder, i dont want to be running too cold!

[Dee-Vub 0]

Righto folks thats me had the car vag-commed and got just the one fault.

 

N71 - Idle regulation adaptation limit exceeded

 

I would assume this is why i am getting the hesitancy in the low rev range.

 

So whats the way to solve it??

 

Cheers